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If you were Loomis writing Graham's contract

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; I have mentioned this before and I wish to restate it ... I don't give a flying rat's ass about Graham's supposed blocking ability. Blocking TE's are nothing more than glorified offensive tackles. His value as an offensive threat far, ...

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Old 07-06-2014, 12:16 PM   #11
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Re: If you were Loomis writing Graham's contract

I have mentioned this before and I wish to restate it ... I don't give a flying rat's ass about Graham's supposed blocking ability. Blocking TE's are nothing more than glorified offensive tackles. His value as an offensive threat far, far, far outweighs any perceived lack of blocking skills. It is not his job in Payton's scheme to be a blocker. He has more value as a decoy.

As for any supposed "dropsies", those claims all link back to two years ago when he was playing with the bad wrist.
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Old 07-06-2014, 01:03 PM   #12
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Re: If you were Loomis writing Graham's contract

Franchise tag. Play and prove you can be a complete TE and not disappear when someone gets a little physical with you. Otherwise, sit at home with nothing and get traded next offseason. Of course, that's easy for a fan to say. LOL. Loomis will do what's best for the Saints.
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Old 07-06-2014, 02:50 PM   #13
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Re: If you were Loomis writing Graham's contract

Originally Posted by Cruize View Post
Franchise tag. Play and prove you can be a complete TE and not disappear when someone gets a little physical with you. Otherwise, sit at home with nothing and get traded next offseason. Of course, that's easy for a fan to say. LOL. Loomis will do what's best for the Saints.
...and that is absolutely the last thing he would let happen. Graham is not your prototypical TE. He has a special skill set that makes him a match-up nightmare. A complete TE? So you are telling me you would rather give up the best receiving production in the league over the past three years to have something a little above average that meets your blocking criteria?

And, as for someone getting a little physical, you do realize that it was arguably the two most talented, physical CB's in the NFL who were given the latitude to absolutely mug Graham throughout the two contests where he "disappeared" ... Talib and Sherman, right?
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Old 07-06-2014, 04:06 PM   #14
 
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Re: If you were Loomis writing Graham's contract

His improved blocking skills sure could help some in the running game, even downfield. Colston sure doesn't mind blocking downfield. Plus methinks he can get better at separation against the likes of Talib and Sherman.
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Old 07-06-2014, 04:31 PM   #15
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Re: If you were Loomis writing Graham's contract

Originally Posted by Cruize View Post
Franchise tag. Play and prove you can be a complete TE and not disappear when someone gets a little physical with you. Otherwise, sit at home with nothing and get traded next offseason. Of course, that's easy for a fan to say. LOL. Loomis will do what's best for the Saints.
Sometimes the round and round on this discussion gets a bit old. JG is a free agent. The Saints no longer have his rights. He is not under contract. The Saints cannot trade him unless they sign him to a contract first.

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido View Post
...and that is absolutely the last thing he would let happen. Graham is not your prototypical TE. He has a special skill set that makes him a match-up nightmare. A complete TE? So you are telling me you would rather give up the best receiving production in the league over the past three years to have something a little above average that meets your blocking criteria?

And, as for someone getting a little physical, you do realize that it was arguably the two most talented, physical CB's in the NFL who were given the latitude to absolutely mug Graham throughout the two contests where he "disappeared" ... Talib and Sherman, right?
This is a definite instance of allowing the perfect to be the enemy of the excellent.

I don't think folks realize that the Saints do not have the leverage here. It's sheer lunacy to think it's better to pay $7, $15, or $31 million over 1,2, or 3 years respectively, with each and every dime on the current salary cap, then lose a HOF player than to work out a deal that keeps that HOF player here for a significant period at a reasoniable cap number for at least 3 years.

Jimmy Graham has nothing to prove. Fortunately Mickey Loomis understands that. Which is why the deal will get done.

SFIAH
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Old 07-10-2014, 06:01 PM   #16
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Re: If you were Loomis writing Graham's contract

Loomis is a financial genius. Our whole FO is really loaded with top notch people.
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Old 07-10-2014, 06:48 PM   #17
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Re: If you were Loomis writing Graham's contract

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL View Post
I'm respectfully going to have to call BS on that. There simply isn't any number that applies to the TE position in the last 3 years that JG isn't #1 in.


None of those are numbers. As for Gronk, the most important number is that JG has played in 31 of the 32 last regular season games (and all the plyaoff games) while Gronk has only played in 18 of the last 32 games.

plus he has to have mismatches to succeed. Gronk can do a better job against any CB than Jimmy. Jimmy still does not have the positioning battle down just yet.

And he would kick it right back across the table, just as any reasonable person would. There are teams that will pay him $12 million right now if he were truly a free agent.

He's a 4 year veteran All-Pro NFL tight end. What happened in college is irrelevant. He's had the best 3 year run of a tight end in NFL history.

Honestly I'm so glad that Loomis is handling this. He, unlike many of the posters I've seen over the last few months, actually understands the value of his asset.

SFIAH
Pardon me, but I have to say that you, unlike many of the rest of us, do not understand the value of being an all around player. You only grasp the receiving statistics. If you think blocking doesn't matter because it isn't a stat, then you must think Loomis is an idiot for paying guys like Evans and Grubbs big money. But you already said he's smarter than the rest of us. So what do you ACTUALLY believe?

Blocking is a big part of a tight end's job, whether you think it should be or not. You also don't take into account all of the drops. The Saints, in my opinion, try too hard to MAKE him a superstar by targeting him a million times every game. Jimmy has great skills, there's no denying that, but when the ball comes your way that much you're going to put up some numbers. What separates the good from the great is the ability to take advantage of every opportunity you have. But he drops a lot of passes.

This isn't to say he isn't an elite talent, or that we're better off without him. The question is whether he should be the highest paid tight end in league history and, as of now, I don't think he deserves that title. He'll undoubtedly get it though, because contracts have very little to do with player value anymore. It's all about guys wanting the distinction of highest paid ever, and agents' unwillingness to budge on anything less.

Just ask Joe freaking Flacco.

If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.
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Old 07-10-2014, 07:20 PM   #18
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Re: If you were Loomis writing Graham's contract

Originally Posted by burningmetal View Post
Pardon me, but I have to say that you, unlike many of the rest of us, do not understand the value of being an all around player. You only grasp the receiving statistics. If you think blocking doesn't matter because it isn't a stat, then you must think Loomis is an idiot for paying guys like Evans and Grubbs big money. But you already said he's smarter than the rest of us. So what do you ACTUALLY believe?

Blocking is a big part of a tight end's job, whether you think it should be or not. You also don't take into account all of the drops. The Saints, in my opinion, try too hard to MAKE him a superstar by targeting him a million times every game. Jimmy has great skills, there's no denying that, but when the ball comes your way that much you're going to put up some numbers. What separates the good from the great is the ability to take advantage of every opportunity you have. But he drops a lot of passes.

This isn't to say he isn't an elite talent, or that we're better off without him. The question is whether he should be the highest paid tight end in league history and, as of now, I don't think he deserves that title. He'll undoubtedly get it though, because contracts have very little to do with player value anymore. It's all about guys wanting the distinction of highest paid ever, and agents' unwillingness to budge on anything less.

Just ask Joe freaking Flacco.
First of all, let's address your first major misconception. For some reason you identify Graham with drops. Let's looks at a few facts.

In 2013 Graham was targeted 143 times and was credited with THREE drops (2.1%). That was the most targets in the entire NFL with a drop percentage as low as 2.1% or lower. The next closest was Alshon Jeffery at 3.4%. Others with far worse drop percentages included AJ Green, Julio Jones, Anquan Boldin, Vernon Davis, Josh Gordon, Calvin Johnson, Roddy White, Eric Decker, Demaryius Thomas, Reggie Wayne, Stevie Johnson, Miles Austin, etc!!!!

That my friend is a fact!

Now on to blocking. Graham is not recognized by experts as a bad blocker. He is simply not called upon in Payton's offensive scheme to be a blocker. You speak of being a "well rounder TE". A well rounded TE is one that does not excel at anything, but can perform well at all disciplines. I have used this example before ... Deion Sanders. Sander is widely recognized as the best cornerback in NFL history and he could not tackle worth a crap. Under your understanding of "value" a "well rounded" CB would be worth more than Sanders any day.

Oh, and the last time I looked, Grubbs and Evans are offensive guards whose sole duty is blocking.

You, sir, have shown me nothing that supports your view that Graham should not be the highest paid TE in the league when the rest of the civilized world feels he should.

I'm sorry, but your credibility level is currently in the red and sinking lower each and every time you hit "Submit Reply".
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Last edited by AsylumGuido; 07-10-2014 at 07:24 PM..
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Old 07-10-2014, 11:06 PM   #19
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Re: If you were Loomis writing Graham's contract

If I were Loomis, good question: Sign and trade would be my first option. Play for tag money next. Personally a sign and trade for draft picks would be good with me. Thanks for the question.
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Old 07-11-2014, 08:40 AM   #20
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Re: If you were Loomis writing Graham's contract

Originally Posted by halloween 65 View Post
If I were Loomis, good question: Sign and trade would be my first option. Play for tag money next. Personally a sign and trade for draft picks would be good with me. Thanks for the question.
Thank God you're not Loomis.
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