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The Turley thing was interesting huh Kool? People blame Haz for the Turley thing, for the Roaf thing, and for a lot of other things that quite frankly probably aren\'t his fault.

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... but you are getting ahead of yourself here... You are just saying \"he wasn\'t good at LT, so it was a good move\"... but WHY was it that Turley was moved to LT? And why was it that Turley was a discontent by then? Anger Management, \"I thought about cutting him on the spot\"..?

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Touche...

I\'ve never hidden being one of the \"Jake Delhomme should\'ve stayed\" guys. I complained vocally to anyone who\'d listen when we let him go, and complained even louder when he took the Panthers to the Super Bowl his first year as a starter. Haz really screwed the pooch on that one...

As for Turley, I\'ve never missed him. It was nice, in a barbaric sort of way, to watch him toss helmets and all, but it\'s true he was ineffective as a LT. That doesn\'t mean he wouldn\'t have remained a solid RT, and that\'s still an important position. I always thought we let Roaf go because of money demands - not to mention the Joe Horn baby fiasco...

[Edited on 18/12/2004 by mutineer10]

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..neither have I :D



[Edited on 18/12/2004 by Tobias-Reiper]

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TR,

I\'m not sure I take your point. Are you suggesting that Turley was moved to LT where he would fail so that we could get rid of him?

I think I agree that moving him to LT from RT was a mistake - nice point, but my point was that moving him out of NO wasn\'t a mistake and no great loss.

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ok, let me explain it, because no one is getting it... everyone is focusing on Turley\'s play at LT... that\'s not the point...
..nor it is that Turley was moved to LT so he would stink and be cut...

..the point is that Willie Roaf should still be a Saint.. that Haslett either wasn\'t able to manage the situation, or did not care to manage the situation because Roaf wasn\'t one of his boys... I personally believe the latter...

..the point is that Haslett should NOT have gone to the media saying that he thought of cutting Turley that night because of the helmet throw... and, after reviewing the facts, i.e., Marcus Robinson trying to decapitate Brooks, he should NOT have made Turley go to those \"anger management\" classes...
..and let me take a stab at Brooks here, who later that week said he didn\'t need help, and Turley didn\'t have to do that...

...the point is that Turley should NOT have been moved to LT ...

..get it now? I am not talking about one particular event, but a series of events all related to one another...

...

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Ah.

You\'re saying that Turley just plain suxs. I get it now.

:broccoli:

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Just kidding.

You\'re suggesting that Haz and Brooks (and probably others) alienated Turley in that particular event. This, in turn, is evidence that Roaf was probably mishandled, since he wasn\'t part of Haz\' \"in crowd\" (just as Turley wasn\'t).

A fine point. I\'ll think on it.

It would be interesting if we had some evidence that Roaf was mad at Haz (and not someone else by the name of Joe... maybe he wears 87). I don\'t remember the details, but I\'m sure someone here can help us out.

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This is a bizarre thread in its premise, but I\'ll play along.

Firstly, FrenzyFan, simply an outstanding post! It\'s all about perspective. I guess the argument that, \"the whole world really is conspiring to make Brooks look bad\" is a bit of a reach.

Secondly, I think Tobias makes a valid point. It was stupid to let the best player on this team for the past 10 years leave town. Joe Johnson or no Joe Johnson, a serious effort should have been made by Haslett to keep Willie.

Now this is all water under the bridge, but it is closely tied to the debate we\'re having. Several individuals want to excuse Brooks\' play this season because of a bad offensive line. But let\'s think about the moves that created this line.

Haslett decided that Willie wasn\'t worth keeping, so we move Turley over the LT.

Turley, who everyone agrees was a fine RT over to the LT position where he struggled. So we deal Turley to get Gandy (who has a 4+ million dollar price tag next season by the way). Now regardless of anything else, I\'m not seeing Gandy as any sort of improvement over Turley. Perhaps I\'m mistaken on this point, but I don\'t think Gandy is worth 4 million dollars and I don\'t see anyone within shouting distance of Willie Roaf.

Since moving Kyle, we have taken a RT by committee approach, that no one is happy with. I am practically counting the days until we release Riley.

And lastly, we drop Jerry and move Bentley to center. Jerry is still starting in this league and was also a fine player for us. I wonder if the fact that he and Kyle got along so well had anything to do with his release. But the even if it didn\'t, I think everyone would agree that Bentley was a better guard than center.

The bottom line here is that Haslett through a series of personality conflicts has run off what used to be a very good offensive line. Haslett has taken an approach that suggests he can just \"make do\" in building an offensive line. This season we are dealing with the consequences of not making the line a priority. I would basically agree that poor line play has led to problems at the QB position, but I would also point out that Brooks would give a line full of pro-bowlers problems simply because he can\'t stay in the pocket and deliver the football on a 3 step drop.

[Edited on 18/12/2004 by BrooksMustGo]