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this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; The Turley thing was interesting huh Kool? People blame Haz for the Turley thing, for the Roaf thing, and for a lot of other things that quite frankly probably aren\'t his fault....

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Old 12-17-2004, 09:19 AM   #41
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Media Agenda???

The Turley thing was interesting huh Kool? People blame Haz for the Turley thing, for the Roaf thing, and for a lot of other things that quite frankly probably aren\'t his fault.
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Old 12-17-2004, 01:09 PM   #42
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Ok, this is only somewhat related, but I\'m getting a bit tired of it.

Turley was a fine RT, but when he got moved to LT, he was merely mediocre. Do people really miss him? I don\'t. Sure he had passion, and that play that got him in trouble was totally justified (the helmet throwing incident) - he was defending a QB (Brooks) who was speared after the play ended. However, he had a penchant for stupid penalties, and he\'s not the sharpest tool in the shed...

Truly, the Roaf thing and the Milne thing sucked. However, the Turley move - NOT a bad move.
... but you are getting ahead of yourself here... You are just saying \"he wasn\'t good at LT, so it was a good move\"... but WHY was it that Turley was moved to LT? And why was it that Turley was a discontent by then? Anger Management, \"I thought about cutting him on the spot\"..?
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Old 12-17-2004, 06:21 PM   #43
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... but you know when this all started, right? .. it really started when Brooks was made the #2 QB before he set foot in Louisiana, then started to get ugly when neither Jake nor Blake were given a fair chance to compete for the starter position in 2001, even tough Haslett said there was open competition for the job... incidentally, that\'s what started the Haslett debate, compounded with the way he handled Milne, then Turley, then Roaf...
Touche...

I\'ve never hidden being one of the \"Jake Delhomme should\'ve stayed\" guys. I complained vocally to anyone who\'d listen when we let him go, and complained even louder when he took the Panthers to the Super Bowl his first year as a starter. Haz really screwed the pooch on that one...

As for Turley, I\'ve never missed him. It was nice, in a barbaric sort of way, to watch him toss helmets and all, but it\'s true he was ineffective as a LT. That doesn\'t mean he wouldn\'t have remained a solid RT, and that\'s still an important position. I always thought we let Roaf go because of money demands - not to mention the Joe Horn baby fiasco...

[Edited on 18/12/2004 by mutineer10]
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Old 12-18-2004, 09:48 AM   #44
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Touche...

I\'ve never hidden being one of the \"Jake Delhomme should\'ve stayed\" guys.
[ by mutineer10]
..neither have I



[Edited on 18/12/2004 by Tobias-Reiper]
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Old 12-18-2004, 10:21 AM   #45
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Touche...

I\'ve never hidden being one of the \"Jake Delhomme should\'ve stayed\" guys.
[ by mutineer10]
Sup? TR?

I blame McCarthy for the Brooks debacle. He was the QB coach at Green Bay and fell in love with Brooks there. When he came here it was a forgone conclusion that he\'d start. That is probably the biggest mistake that Hazlett ever made as HC, in not letting Blake have a fair shot at #1 after 2000. He was, and is terrified of a QB \"controversy\" and it has gotten us shackled with Fumbles the Clown.

Til we get someone who can evaluate and lead the talent we have and start looking for football players instead of track stars, we are in serious trouble. I\'m talking about the FO gang, LoomBoom and Baby Mule.

..neither have I



[Edited on 18/12/2004 by Tobias-Reiper]
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Old 12-18-2004, 11:16 AM   #46
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TR,

I\'m not sure I take your point. Are you suggesting that Turley was moved to LT where he would fail so that we could get rid of him?

I think I agree that moving him to LT from RT was a mistake - nice point, but my point was that moving him out of NO wasn\'t a mistake and no great loss.
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Old 12-18-2004, 12:32 PM   #47
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TR,

I\'m not sure I take your point. Are you suggesting that Turley was moved to LT where he would fail so that we could get rid of him?

I think I agree that moving him to LT from RT was a mistake - nice point, but my point was that moving him out of NO wasn\'t a mistake and no great loss.
ok, let me explain it, because no one is getting it... everyone is focusing on Turley\'s play at LT... that\'s not the point...
..nor it is that Turley was moved to LT so he would stink and be cut...

..the point is that Willie Roaf should still be a Saint.. that Haslett either wasn\'t able to manage the situation, or did not care to manage the situation because Roaf wasn\'t one of his boys... I personally believe the latter...

..the point is that Haslett should NOT have gone to the media saying that he thought of cutting Turley that night because of the helmet throw... and, after reviewing the facts, i.e., Marcus Robinson trying to decapitate Brooks, he should NOT have made Turley go to those \"anger management\" classes...
..and let me take a stab at Brooks here, who later that week said he didn\'t need help, and Turley didn\'t have to do that...

...the point is that Turley should NOT have been moved to LT ...

..get it now? I am not talking about one particular event, but a series of events all related to one another...

...

La neta es chida, pero inalcanzable
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Old 12-18-2004, 01:32 PM   #48
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Ah.

You\'re saying that Turley just plain suxs. I get it now.

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Old 12-18-2004, 01:35 PM   #49
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Just kidding.

You\'re suggesting that Haz and Brooks (and probably others) alienated Turley in that particular event. This, in turn, is evidence that Roaf was probably mishandled, since he wasn\'t part of Haz\' \"in crowd\" (just as Turley wasn\'t).

A fine point. I\'ll think on it.

It would be interesting if we had some evidence that Roaf was mad at Haz (and not someone else by the name of Joe... maybe he wears 87). I don\'t remember the details, but I\'m sure someone here can help us out.
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Old 12-18-2004, 01:58 PM   #50
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This is a bizarre thread in its premise, but I\'ll play along.

Firstly, FrenzyFan, simply an outstanding post! It\'s all about perspective. I guess the argument that, \"the whole world really is conspiring to make Brooks look bad\" is a bit of a reach.

Secondly, I think Tobias makes a valid point. It was stupid to let the best player on this team for the past 10 years leave town. Joe Johnson or no Joe Johnson, a serious effort should have been made by Haslett to keep Willie.

Now this is all water under the bridge, but it is closely tied to the debate we\'re having. Several individuals want to excuse Brooks\' play this season because of a bad offensive line. But let\'s think about the moves that created this line.

Haslett decided that Willie wasn\'t worth keeping, so we move Turley over the LT.

Turley, who everyone agrees was a fine RT over to the LT position where he struggled. So we deal Turley to get Gandy (who has a 4+ million dollar price tag next season by the way). Now regardless of anything else, I\'m not seeing Gandy as any sort of improvement over Turley. Perhaps I\'m mistaken on this point, but I don\'t think Gandy is worth 4 million dollars and I don\'t see anyone within shouting distance of Willie Roaf.

Since moving Kyle, we have taken a RT by committee approach, that no one is happy with. I am practically counting the days until we release Riley.

And lastly, we drop Jerry and move Bentley to center. Jerry is still starting in this league and was also a fine player for us. I wonder if the fact that he and Kyle got along so well had anything to do with his release. But the even if it didn\'t, I think everyone would agree that Bentley was a better guard than center.

The bottom line here is that Haslett through a series of personality conflicts has run off what used to be a very good offensive line. Haslett has taken an approach that suggests he can just \"make do\" in building an offensive line. This season we are dealing with the consequences of not making the line a priority. I would basically agree that poor line play has led to problems at the QB position, but I would also point out that Brooks would give a line full of pro-bowlers problems simply because he can\'t stay in the pocket and deliver the football on a 3 step drop.

[Edited on 18/12/2004 by BrooksMustGo]

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