Media Agenda???
 

Like most Saints' fans, I read several articles on the Saints from a variety of sources. And, of course, I hear from Saints fans both in person and on the internet.

Everyone has an opinion on what is wrong with the Saints. Myself included. But some media outlet and fans have agendas.

Take this site for example. Over the years you come to know who has an agenda and who doesn't. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with having an agenda.... However, most of those folks will never admit they have an agenda.

Well, it seems Aaron Brooks has become the focus of most agendas. Both by the media and fans. Some of you who are reading this right now know exactly who and what I'm talking about.

I don't have the time to drag it out of the "Agenda Hounds", nor the desire.

But, let me just say this -- I've watched Brooks this year and I've been disappointed in some of the decisions he's made. It's been an off year for Brooks. Not terribly good or bad. But, he's certainly not responsible of our 5-8 record.

Anyone who knows anything about football at all knows our offensive line is a JOKE. Brooks gets instant pressure on too many occasions and even the best of QB's often make mistakes. That 1-extra second in the pocket can and usually does make all the difference in the world.

Beyond that .... We are ranked 29th in rushing offense. Defenses are just teeing off against the pass, with no regard for the running game.

To make matters worse, our defense is allowing the most rushing yards, passing yards, and more importantly... THE MOST POINTS!!

Brooks has thrown the ball more than any other QB in the league. Of course his INTs are up, whose wouldn't be? He's still having no worse year than Matt Hasselback, Tom Brady, or some other QB's around the league.

Most folks know all of this,... Still, there are those out there who think Brooks is the promblem and to be honest, Brooks has made a few bad decisions and I want them corrected. Nevertheless... I know Brooks isn't the problem. But, to some, he's the problem.

Watch out for sports writers and fans who preach that stuff. They're just pushing their agenda...

.....Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Media Agenda???
 

Halo,

Is there any way we can ban the word \"agenda\" with the other dirty words, so that when you type it, it\'ll simply show as if you typed ****, *****, or ****nut?

Media Agenda???
 

I am not sure where I stand on Brooks -- I am not sure he is ever going to be a consistent enough QB for the Saints and it may be better for both organizations if he leaves. That said one thing I can say for sure is that we have many more important holes to fill before we start worrying about replacing the QB. If and when we get the linebacker, Cornerback and Offensive linemen we so desperately need we can then evaluate our quarterback needs and desires.

Media Agenda???
 

That would never work.... Then I would just type agen*a. Or maybe that would bug you as much.... :P J/K

What\'s up with the word \"agenda\". ???

Media Agenda???
 

See, this is where I have to disagree. I think part of the reason the o-line is so terrible is because of Brooks. NOT ALL, PART. Case in point. Went to the Dallas game with my homie, a Cowboys fan, and his impression before the game was \"Brooks is a pretty good qb.\" This sentiment was echoed by many sitting around me in the stands. \"Better watch Brooks he can hurt us.\" All it took was the first series for them to change their minds. Brooks badly underthrew a receiver on a crossing pattern and the receiver was wide open, ball hit the turf. The Cowboys came up into a run blitz on second well before the snap and play clock in the teens, Brooks made no attempt to audible and the play was run right into the blitz, predictably Deuce stopped behind the line for a loss. Next play, another bad throw, ON THE FIRST SERIES. They jumped off the Brooks is good bandwagon that quick. And they also noticed like I did it takes Brooks a count longer to step back from center than the lineman when the ball is snapped. It\'s like he has no urgency to back up. Surely your line will be bad when you are even with the qb A COUNT AFTER THE SNAP. He should already be behind you. Brooks\' best passes and our best pass blocking came in the shotgun. We had no false start penalties in the game and I don\'t remember any holding. Brooks had all kinds of time to throw all day. He still throws a red zone INT and misses open receivers. Call it an agenda if you want, but bad qb play after 4 years as a starter is bad qb play, and that\'s Brooks. Now if we go to a shotgun offense like Minnesota does a lot, I would be glad to keep him, but that eliminates Deuce as a viable weapon.

Also, maybe the problem with the defense has been our offenses inability to DO ANYTHING in the first quarter. Part of this blame goes to the coaches but part has to go to Brooks. The way he started the Cowboys game was terrible. I really liked the o-line as the game went on. They definitely got better and opened more holes. But Brooks was only under pressure a handful of plays and he still looked terrible.

Media Agenda???
 

Yes I could, but I think this was meant as a joke. I get it.

Media Agenda???
 

I could stop every variation of the word also, but I know we don\'t have to go there. It\'s a long story Billy, you\'ve been out of the loop. PM me and I\'ll answer you back later today to give you some scoop.

[Edited on 12/15/2004 by Halo]

Media Agenda???
 

I will come out of my self-imposed hiatus just long enough to say that I, for one, have been forbidden to use the word \"agenda\" on this site. What\'s interesting is the one guy with the biggest agenda is the one who caused all the drama. Sure, there are few people here who tired of the \"agenda\" discussion and together (all 4 of \'em) managed to get the word semi-banned, but then there are just as many of us who can readily see this agenda, and what about us?

The rules as they are now prohibit me or anyone else from pointing to an agenda even if said agenda is clearly present. I might better understand the banning of the word if it weren\'t fit for children, but I understand why it was quasi-banned, and the reason is:

Those with the most obvious agenda didn\'t like some of us callin\' \'em on it, and that, my friends and fellow Saints Fans, is the truth, the whole truth, and nothin\' but the truth.

By the way, Happy Holidays To You All...even those with an agenda!

Media Agenda???
 

Wow, look at that. The two musketeers are back.

There are definitely two people on this board who have an agenda. Two people who are mad that they were wrong about the coach, wrong about the team, and wrong about the quarterback. They scream about this unnamed source, for anyone wondering, it\'s me, and suggest that I have purposely tried to get AB thrown off the Saints for no good reason. It\'s laughable to think I would or could.

Most ironic though, is that they now come to this board to further their pro-Brooks and anti-Whodat agendas by suggesting that most of the posters on this board, the media, analysts, etc. all have an agenda, and they, the two who can really see the light, truly know what\'s best for the team. Then, in the next breath, they criticize others for thinking they might know a little something too.

Why don\'t you two turn your attention to Danno\'s Anti-Horn agenda huh? The two musketeers, defenders of the tang induced goggle world!! LOL

Merry Christmas right back at you. :)

Media Agenda???
 

Well, I should\'ve agenda known, the first agenda to agenda, was gonna come back and agenda with the original agenda. I\'m very agenda, guys. Agenda the agenda, then get back to me. Everyone, have a merry agenda.

Media Agenda???
 

yeah.. you are right... there are 2 Brooks agendas:

1.- The \"Brooks sucks and is all his fault we are losing\" agenda...
2.- The \"Brooks wins games by himself , but when we lose, is not Brooks\' fault\" agenda...

..it\'s all about perspective...

Media Agenda???
 

4ss,

We need TWO LBs, a DT, a CB, an OT (maybe two), and a Guard (and probably a Safety). That\'s a tall order.

Otherwise, I think I agree with you.

Media Agenda???
 

Mr. Kool I do believe that your post is nonsense, exactly what do the missing positions on our team have to do with this thread? are you hittin\' the pipe? Just kidding, I think you meant to put that in the all I want for Christmas thread

Media Agenda???
 

I, for one, am extremely impressed with those who authored the anti-Brooks agenda. Those guys are amazing! Though their viewpoint is so obviously skewed by their unreasoning and unfounded hatred of all things Brooks, and considering Brooks\' outstanding play in his stellar career with the Saints, somehow they\'ve made their agenda commonly accepted as fact.

They\'ve managed to infect most of the regular attendees to all Saints home games, thus the incessant boo-ing when Brooks plays. They\'ve managed to influence professional sports writers, commentators, and former super bowl QBs to say negative things about Brooks, some even unjustly calling Brooks: \"The most over-rated NFL player.\" They\'ve managed to brain-wash many of the posters on this board (and others). It\'s simply staggering to consider how pervasive their obvious untruths and crooked perceptions have become throughout NFL and Saints fan-dom.

For my part, I plan to seek out those people on this board who originated these lies about Brooks. I want them on my advertising team. No matter what product I put out, with their powerful influence on seemingly the entire world, I will be wealthy beyond the dreams of avarice in no time.

/sarcasm off

Media Agenda???
 

Nice Frenzy. :thumbsup:

Media Agenda???
 

Dang Frenzy....tell em why you mad son..............but I agree with you...........

Media Agenda???
 

Not to ruffle your feathers, TR, but I think you\'ve got about 9 pages of heavy reading to do...

If we could make the Brooks issue that simple, I don\'t think we could\'ve argued about him as long as we have. Personally, I\'m enlisting with the \"get rid of him, we need a new identity\" branch of the forces. Time for a little offensive overhaul, and we might as well start with him (and McCarthy, hopefully).

Media Agenda???
 

I see there\'s a nice little discussion going on here...

Ok, let me throw the word \"agenda\" out of the game here.

There are some fans who think Brooks just doesn\'t have what it takes to be the QB. That\'s fine. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs.

I think there\'s little doubt he could play better. He\'s made a few bone-headed decisions this year that were just plain stupid.

However, I\'ve heard folks blame Brooks for the terrible offensive line play. Are you guys kidding me? First, I can see defensive linemen running through and over our guys. Second, Brooks athletcism avoids more sacks than any pressure he might run towards. Third.. Do you also blame Deuce for their terrible run blocking? Maybe Deuce just isn\'t hitting the hole....

Also, there are some who blame Brooks, in part, for the terrible play of the defense. The 32nd ranked defense. The Dolphins denfense sure is playing well despite their horrible offense.

Listen folks, in the famous word of Bill Parcells....YOU ARE WHAT YOU ARE!!

We are pathetic on the O-line.
We are pathetic on Defense.
We have bad coaching.
Deuce is struggling some but it\'s not all his fault.
And Brooks is struggling but it\'s a long way from being all his fault.

There ain\'t no \'I\' in team and it\'s not always the QB\'s fault.

WhoDat predicted Brooks to go to the probowl and the Saints to win the division. Hmmm...

WhoDat also predicited the Bucs defense would be terrible this year. I think they\'re ranked third, WhoDat.

Merry Christmas to ya all..... Ho...Ho...Ho...... Merry Christmas

Media Agenda???
 

I\'ll agree with Billy on that one. How is Aaron supposed to find an open receiver, when he has 1.5 seconds to make a decision. NO Qb in the league would excel behind that line, except Delhomme, who would simply toss the ball up for grabs, and get a 70yard TD out of it. And I hate Delhomme, but he\'s just that damn lucky.

Media Agenda???
 

I\'ll somewhat disagree with you guys on that one. How is a guy supposed to block for a qb who seems to be a beat slower backing out after the snap? This was noticed by the majority of the Dallas fans I sat with. Why does he take so long to get from under center they asked me. good question was all I could say. No doubt the o-line has played far below standard, but that has to have a small bearing.

Media Agenda???
 

I prefer to call a spade a spade. This o-line is one of the worst in the NFL. They weren\'t great at pass blocking last year, which I pointed out many times, now they can\'t run block for one of the best RBs in the game.

I don\'t know if you\'re making excuses for the O-line, but IMHO, you\'re way off base. Brooks coming of the snap slowly is reaching. How do you explain him getting instant pressure in the shotgun?

Everything always seems to go back to Brooks.

How \'bout Eli Manning? Is Eli making is O-line play poorly?

Media Agenda???
 

And here it is folks. Please read carefully. This isn\'t about AB, or coaching, or the team in any way. This is Billy trying to settle old scores. Do not mistake what he says for what he means - in other words, don\'t be blind to his \"agenda.\" LOL

Just look at what the guy said:

We are pathetic on the O-line.
We are pathetic on Defense.
We have bad coaching.
Deuce is struggling some but it\'s not all his fault.
And Brooks is struggling but it\'s a long way from being all his fault.

We are bad along the line right now, not pathetic. We are pathetic on D. Coaching is terrible, something he argued with me over tooth and nail for over a year. The important thing is that you should notice that only Brooks is \"a long way\" from fault. Deuce is responsible for his own play. So is the line, so is the defense... but not Brooks. When AB plays poorly it\'s \"a long way from his fault.\"

Despite what you want to say, AB may be servicable and may not be worse than a lot of QBs in the league, but in my opinion, he needs to go. QB is the most important position on the field. Billy has argued this fact as well, but on most teams, they play like their QB. Think about it. GB wins 3 or 4 and then has a meltdown game. Sound like Favre to you? Brady is smart and scrappy and refuses to lose - sound like the Patties? Delhomme may not be great but he played great for the Panthers last year. Indy plays explosive and smart but not real tough.

Thus, when you look at AB is it any real shock that the Saints have been up and down? Is it any shock that they\'re loaded with talent but just can\'t seem to get it done? AB was forced into being the leader of this team by Haslett and his own mouth. Well, gentlemen, this is what you get. Happy? As Danno has said time again, this team needs an identity change. Haslett and Brooks are two of the biggest \"identities\" on this team and maybe the two who are underachieving the most. Time to go.

Media Agenda???
 

WhoDat --

The only reason I pick on you is because of the way your present your arguement. In other words, when you ALWAYS point out how right you were and never point to when you are wrong... well .... you come off as being a bit brash.......LMAO

Seriously, I don\'t care if you were right or wrong. It\'s no big surprise to me what you\'re posting on here. I could go 10-years without reading your posts and still tell everyone what you are posting... A lepord doesn\'t change his spots... LOL

See... I blame Brooks for his mistakes. Just not every mistake the whole team makes.

You don\'t blame Brooks for 100% of the problems.... Just 99% and that will never change.

Media Agenda???
 

johnny,

Maybe it was the crack... :seeingstars:

Actually, I was responding to 4ss\' idea that if we got a LB, OL, and CB, we could evaluate our QB.

That said, I kind of agree with his point. Football is a team game (surprise!), which means that it is difficult to evaluate players in isolation based on what you see on the field during a game, which is where I think the bulk of evaluation should occur.

Consider, WhoDat\'s hatred for the Duece arguments; here is a good Duece argument:

IF the reason you believe Duece is \"struggling\" this season is because the game plan must be changed because we\'re always down by 20, the OL is nothing but pure carp (he he), and that he has bad coaching/play calling, THEN it is perfectly acceptable to think that about Brooks too.

Media Agenda???
 

I think I\'m partially inclined to agree with Whodi on this one.

There are times that Brooks makes the OL look worse than they already are. Consider the two cases: (1) he steps out of the back of the pocket - who does this other than AB, I mean really? OT\'s aren\'t THAT fast that they can get back and block for a QB who steps out of the protection fifteen yards behind the LOS. (2) He does take forever to get out from under center. I don\'t remember that being a problem last year?!

The second one may be forgiveable. If you were knocked for mishandling the snap all the time and known for putting the ball on the carpet all the time, you might take an extra moment to take care of that. I hypothesize that this may be Bentley\'s fault and not Brooks. The center exchange may be awkward. I have no evidence for this other than it didn\'t seem to be such a problem last year. What do you guys think?

As for one, it seems to me to ABs fault, pure and simple, but I\'m willing to hear argument one way or the other.

Media Agenda???
 

Gator,

I couldn\'t agree more (at least on the points about agendas, bias, and being a fan).

I think you and I made similar arguments a year ago at about this time. I guess we never learn? :airguitar:

Media Agenda???
 

Excellent point Kool about Brooks maybe trying to ensure he gets the snap. I hadn\'t even thought of that when I was watching it. All I could think was, why is this fool taking so long to get from under center? There were plays where the guards were nearly behind him by the time he was backing up. Now you tell me how an o-line is supposed to compensate for that? They are bad no doubt, but that adds to it. If the exchange is the problem, then it is the coaches\' faults also for not recognizing it earlier. The question is, is it Brooks\' fault just for mismanaging snaps(remember all the phanton fumbles last year) or is it Bentley\'s fault? That\'s the million dollar question, submitted to you Gumbo. Kool had my back on this one, and brought a strong observation.

Media Agenda???
 

I don\'t know if you watched the game Sunday Gumbo, but after the first quarter, the line played their best game all season. They opened holes for Deuce and there was no pressure on Brooks to speak of. He had all day in the shotgun and got his best yards there, I even wrote about it in another thread. But despite all this, he still looked only okay to bad. Brooks looks like a guy playing out the string. His passes were terrible, with no pressure on him. I am sure you could say, well all season long the line has been bad and that\'s why he looked bad, but there was no such excuse against Dallas. Explain to me the reason he threw the goalline INT with zero pressure. Explain to me how he throws a ball into double coverage with zero pressure, giving Roy Williams his first pick of the year. Explain to me how he throws balls into the turf on crossing routes with no pressure. Explain to me how he can\'t hit a simple out route to an open receiver cause he has no idea what touch is. The defense played great, Brooks had no pressure, so what is his excuse for 1 TD and 2 picks and generally looking apathetic the whole game? And barely completing 50% of his passes? Since backing up from center too slow wasn\'t a viable excuse, funny how others notice it too, some not even Saints fans. I guess they also have \"agendas\" for the Saints or are making excuses for OUR o-line.

Media Agenda???
 

:popcorn:



(08 should never have told me about all the smileys... where the heck is he anyway?)

Media Agenda???
 

Good one Kool. I\'m waiting too.
:read:

Media Agenda???
 

3 posts in a row by JKool? You were on record pace until saintswhodi stepped in.
And I told all you asses about the use of the \"A\" word- don\'t make me edit posts!!!

Media Agenda???
 

BnB,

I was thinking of adding a fourth that said this:

That\'s four BnB... I think I can do it...

:bugeyes:

But Whodi cut me off. Good thing too, I imagine?!

Media Agenda???
 

I\'d like to know where 08 is too. He left right about the time the word agenda got banned. I know he wasn\'t happy to see the screws get tightened, but I don\'t know if that\'s what ultimately happened to him or not. He and I used to bicker back and forth pretty good until other people got involved.

Regarding Brooks, I don\'t think anyone here is purposely giving the man a free pass. What I and a few of the other more prominant \"sunshiners\" have done is defend him against comments like, \"Our TE\'s suck because of Brooks\" or \"Our Recievers suck because of Brooks\", or \"Our Line sucks because of Brooks\" or \"Our RB is off this year because of Brooks\" or \"Our defense sucks because of Brooks\". It goes on and on.

Funny thing about this \"stepping away from center\" argument that cropped up recently. Was that a problem last year? I don\'t reacall it being an issue, and certainly I don\'t recall anyone ever bringing it up before. So, we should ask ourselves what changed. What changed is the guy snapping the ball. To this point no one has mentioned that. These are the things I bring to the table from time to time and get blasted for.

Anyone see who\'s done the name calling in this thread so far? ;)

Media Agenda???
 

Actually saintfan, Kool and I touched on the possibility of Bentley having something to do with it.

That\'s mine. Here\'s Kool:

We both submitted it may not all be AB, but Butters does seem to have a problem holding on to the ball. LeCharles has played center before, but I would agree he was better suited at guard. Regardless, it has been 13 games, an offseason and a bye week, and Brooks has not complained about Bentley\'s snaps. He has been good for proclaiming false love and \"evaluating his situation,\" but surely if I am being blamed for fumbles I would place the blame where it belonged, no? Isn\'t that the time to speak out?


[Edited on 16/12/2004 by saintswhodi]

Media Agenda???
 

You\'ll have to forgive me whodi. You\'re relatively new to the \"Blame Brooks for Everything\" debate.

There are a handful of folks here that have a history of blaming Brooks for everything wrong with the Saints. When they can\'t complain about his performance they start in on his contract. You\'re not one of \'em and neither is Kool, so my apologies. I\'ve actually had to defend Brooks because someone said our team\'s inability to defend a screen pass was his fault. There is no limit to the length some will go.

Media Agenda???
 

Understood saintfan. Here\'s one for you: :cheers:

Media Agenda???
 

Interesting. I can think of a few people who have done that, but they don\'t seem to be the ones who get most attacked or labeled for their stance on AB.

I don\'t know if any person has taken more heat from the \"sunshiners\" on this board than I have. I am generally considered the quintessential \"Brooks Basher,\" but have I said any of those things?

There is a difference between saying that it\'s difficult to catch laser shots that are 2 feet behind you at your knees from 10 yards away, or it\'s hard not to hear footsteps when your QB leads you into monster hits, and saying the WRs suck b/c of AB. Furthermore, I can\'t think of a time that I\'ve ever presented that argument initially. What tends to happen is someone on the Pro Brooks side brings up dropped passes, and the delivery of the football or the ability to throw a touch pass comes up as an affirmative defense. Somehow that translates into \"it\'s AB\'s fault the WRs suck.\" That\'s tantamount to suggesting that some of the \"sunshiners\" believe that Horn is a Pro Bowler only b/c he has AB throwing him the ball. That\'s ridiculous, but then it\'s not hard to see how this argument gets polarized. Like suggesting that AB is overpaid translates into, \"I have nothing else to complain about so I\'ll have to resort to that.\" It\'s sad that some people believe that, but then, some people still support Haslett.

Media Agenda???
 

Don\'t we ealready have one 8 page Brooks feeding frenzy thread? Do we need to start another? Brooks is a bad QB.

Media Agenda???
 

oh, you aren\'t ruffling any feathers... I have seen the argument before :) , believe me...

... but you know when this all started, right? .. it really started when Brooks was made the #2 QB before he set foot in Louisiana, then started to get ugly when neither Jake nor Blake were given a fair chance to compete for the starter position in 2001, even tough Haslett said there was open competition for the job... incidentally, that\'s what started the Haslett debate, compounded with the way he handled Milne, then Turley, then Roaf...

Media Agenda???
 

Ok, this is only somewhat related, but I\'m getting a bit tired of it.

Turley was a fine RT, but when he got moved to LT, he was merely mediocre. Do people really miss him? I don\'t. Sure he had passion, and that play that got him in trouble was totally justified (the helmet throwing incident) - he was defending a QB (Brooks) who was speared after the play ended. However, he had a penchant for stupid penalties, and he\'s not the sharpest tool in the shed...

Truly, the Roaf thing and the Milne thing sucked. However, the Turley move - NOT a bad move.