No quit in the Saints

BlackandBlue · 12-21-2004, 11:57 AM

What a profound post, considering the condescending nature. A fellow intellectual, perhaps? What I find most interesting, is your proficiency with parlance, but your lack of execution with sentence structure itself, which leaves me questioning- do you strictly use eloquent verbiage as a way to intimidate those you interact with?

Puddinhead · 12-21-2004, 12:09 PM

Quote from Puddinhead:
________________________________________________________
Christ.......what a bunch of frigging malcontents. The whole lot, no matter which side of whatever issue you\'re on. I read the threads in this forum, and I can\'t come to any other conclusion than to think that the particular topic--be it Haslett\'s coaching, Jones\' tackling, Loomis\' \"GM-ing\", whatever--is secondary to folks who just want a chance to try to convince everyone else they\'re smarter or more knowledgable than everyone else. It\'s tiresome, man...tiresome. At least I can avoid the threads with either \"Sunshiner\" or \"Moonshiner\" in the title...you can pretty much be forewarned that those are destined to be nothing more than pi$$ing contests between the two blocs. But a guy might have thought that something titled \"No quit in the Saints\" might have been safe.
________________________________________________________

Fortunately for you, I am trained in abstract thinking, and I will endeavor to break down this complex thread for you...
but before I do unwillingly condescend to respond to your rant, I only know what I know, and look for informed opinions to augment that knowledge, so please don\'t count me in on your \"who\'s genitalia are bigger\" overgeneralizatoin.

The \"No Quit\" concept has been uniformly acknowledged for this team. There are very few examples of quitters, and given this team\'s makeup, those players are obvious. This group are willing and they have great talent and capacity to use that talent. Here\'s where the thread gets complicated...

All oars have to be rowing in concert and in the same direction. \"No quit\" is meaningless if only looked at from the athlete\'s perspective. While there\'s no evidence that the Staff is quitting, their job is to learn from the behaviors and limitations of the team they have and the teams they play against. While it is clear there is every intent to win games, the issue is how this Staff has repeatedly demonstrated that they cannot adjust, they cannot communicate and they cannot teach. They are \"No Quit\" on their baseline assumptions on how to win.

So, to conclude, counterpointing (is that too complex a concept?) is essential to gaining enlightenment, and properly directed \"no quit\" attitude will ultimately gain satisfaction, and thus this thread\'s gentle prodding toward that mission.

Thank you, Mr. Will.

xan · 12-21-2004, 02:12 PM

Quote from BlackandBlue:
________________________________________________________
do you strictly use eloquent verbiage as a way to intimidate those you interact with?
________________________________________________________

it should read, \"to intimidate those with whom you interact?\"

I stand in abject sorrow for any unsupported parry that has caused harm, but I will not apologize for nor renounce command over my native toungue.

I realize that this is no excuse, but I was a bit rushed to post and was somewhat loose with syntax. Thanks and I will try to be more diligent. (no, really!) I appreciate the posters who spend the extra time to construct well honed, precise and concise arguments and observations. And it is humbling to be recognized by them for my own.

Anyway... Is it my imagination, or is it possible that with all the recent injuries for the Eagles, Vikings, Falcons and Seahawks, that there COULD be a straight shot to the Superbowl if the D shows up like it has the last two weeks? Is that a reason not to quit??

RDOX · 12-21-2004, 03:05 PM

Quote from BlackandBlue:
________________________________________________________
do you strictly use eloquent verbiage as a way to intimidate those you interact with?
________________________________________________________

it should read, \"to intimidate those with whom you interact?\"

I stand in abject sorrow for any unsupported parry that has caused harm, but I will not apologize for nor renounce command over my native toungue.

I realize that this is no excuse, but I was a bit rushed to post and was somewhat loose with syntax. Thanks and I will try to be more diligent. (no, really!) I appreciate the posters who spend the extra time to construct well honed, precise and concise arguments and observations. And it is humbling to be recognized by them for my own.

Anyway... Is it my imagination, or is it possible that with all the recent injuries for the Eagles, Vikings, Falcons and Seahawks, that there COULD be a straight shot to the Superbowl if the D shows up like it has the last two weeks? Is that a reason not to quit??

My God!! Someone who can read and write. How refreshing. Xan, I have read with interest and agreement your statements and I must say that I completely agree with your train of though, your line of reasoning, and your outstanding ability to express yourself.

Saintfan. I may have done well in the Ditka era, and I\'m sure that I\'d do well today, because what this LEAGUE lacks for the most part is a sense of discipline. That word is not synonomous with punishment by the way. I see a lack of personal discipline (self discipline) in Brooks, Jones, Hodge, Sullivan, and others on this team. I see a lack of discipline in the front office, in not being able to guide a new Head Coach (yes, he is new) with regard to player selection, player pay, and player control.

What has gone on in this organization has been that everyone sort of went their own way, relied on raw talent alone, and just played when they wanted to. What you see in Charles Grant, Willie Whitehead, Brian Young, Will Smith, & Darren Howard is the result of an old school guy (from the Ditka era) taking charge of a talented group of guys and molding, teaching, motivating, and helping them to do well. It has taken most of this season to get there. Why? Because the scheme is too complicated. I believe that he dumbed it down some and these guys saw some success. They are 100% better than at the beginning of the season. Why? Discipline! Demanding that a player reach down and get some more that he doesn\'t think he/she has.

Has anyone seen the movie Miracle? Herb Brooks was one of the DITKA ERA coaches. What did he do? He took a group of college kids who had never seen each other before and made a TEAM that beat the finest Hockey team that the world had ever seen. Because one says that you need to be tough with a group of players, doesn\'t mean that you chain them in a dungeon somewhere. Watch what Parcell does next year, he may no win the SB, but I\'d be willing to bet that Dallas is in the running for each game. Same with Coughlin, Same with Mora.

The secret of success as a coach is to get a player to look inward and bring out the very finest effort that he/she can bring. There are as many various styles as there are coaches. One thing for certain, you can\'t be buddies, you have to stay across the line, slightly aloof, reachable when necessary, but always demanding the best from your team. That has not been done here. I believe that Hazlett suffers from something called \"Role Ambivilence.\" That is, he still wants to play and be thought of as a stud linebacker, and not a Head Coach. He wants to be one of the guys. He can\'t. He\'s the Head Coach, and needs to act and perform like one.

One day he will. Hopefully, here. Hopefully, this last part of the season, and into next year.

saintfan · 12-21-2004, 03:20 PM

what this LEAGUE lacks for the most part is a sense of discipline.

I agree with you totally, and so does Bill Parcells, who by the way is having a difficult time figuring out why his team doesn\'t play with discipline. He\'s publically called them stupid this year. Go and Figure huh?

RDOX · 12-21-2004, 03:34 PM

what this LEAGUE lacks for the most part is a sense of discipline.

I agree with you totally, and so does Bill Parcells, who by the way is having a difficult time figuring out why his team doesn\'t play with discipline. He\'s publically called them stupid this year. Go and Figure huh?

You know, I don\'t agree with that kind of stuff. That is the OLD SCHOOL kinda approach. I feel that this free agency thing has backfired on a lot of people. Especially, the management! Not to harken back to the good old days, but to remember what went on in the Lombardi, Shula, Landry, Stram, Phillips days; first the players were pretty well locked into their teams. They could be traded, quit, or retire. The point is that if you look at what transpired in those days, you see a coach stay with a team for a period of time that allows him to build and develop his young players. Landry is probably the best example of that. He was the 1st coach of the Cowgirls, and they stunk. They were a laughingstock of the NFL. When he was finished, they were \"America\'s Team.\" Lombardi was O Coordinator of New York Giants before he was hired by Green Bay. The only team that Green Bay could beat was Dallas. They were terrible. Now Lombardi is applauded as one of the best, if not the best, coach in NFL history.

What all of these guys had is stability in their teams. They knew each other and played with each other; AS A UNIT! This is what I think that Parcells brought to New York Giants, and Jets, then New England, and will bring it to Dallas somehow. But with the free agency \"era\" there is no stability, and no permanence. These folks move every time the wind blows, if the soup is cold, or the tea is hot. Turley moved because he didn\'t like the food here, for God Sake.

I am personally tired of seeing what I consider a group of spoiled, ingnorant, overpaid children go out to play a game, that is supposed to be fun, and then gripe over whether or not a fan booed them or some such. I stand by my statement that Aaron Brooks would be a towel boy at the car wash if he couldn\'t throw a football.

Danno · 12-21-2004, 03:47 PM

What a profound post, considering the condescending nature. A fellow intellectual, perhaps? What I find most interesting, is your proficiency with parlance, but your lack of execution with sentence structure itself, which leaves me questioning- do you strictly use eloquent verbiage as a way to intimidate those you interact with?

Ahhh this veritable plethora of aesthetic prose has me pondering one of my favorite song lyrics...
B&B will probably know who they are...

They call me mister know-it-all
I am so eloquent
Perfection is my middle name
and....whatever rhymes with eloquent

WhoDat · 12-21-2004, 03:48 PM

do you strictly use eloquent verbiage as a way to intimidate those you interact with?

I believe, BnB, that you were trying to say:

do you strictly use eloquent verbiage as a way to intimidate those with whom you interact?

can\'t finish a word with a preposition my friend! LOL

[insert steam coming from the big guy\'s ears]

[Edited on 21/12/2004 by WhoDat]

saintfan · 12-21-2004, 03:50 PM

A \"prime\" example Danno...and you thought BandB was the only one. :band2.sml:

Danno · 12-21-2004, 04:09 PM

A \"prime\" example Danno...and you thought BandB was the only one. :band2.sml:

Too many puppies, Oh well, I guess its pudding time children

I\'m gonna have to pull that one off the shelf tonight!

12-21-2004, 11:57 AM	#21
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	No quit in the Saints What a profound post, considering the condescending nature. A fellow intellectual, perhaps? What I find most interesting, is your proficiency with parlance, but your lack of execution with sentence structure itself, which leaves me questioning- do you strictly use eloquent verbiage as a way to intimidate those you interact with?

12-21-2004, 12:09 PM	#22
Puddinhead 100th Post Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 102	No quit in the Saints Quote from Puddinhead: ________________________________________________________ Christ.......what a bunch of frigging malcontents. The whole lot, no matter which side of whatever issue you\'re on. I read the threads in this forum, and I can\'t come to any other conclusion than to think that the particular topic--be it Haslett\'s coaching, Jones\' tackling, Loomis\' \"GM-ing\", whatever--is secondary to folks who just want a chance to try to convince everyone else they\'re smarter or more knowledgable than everyone else. It\'s tiresome, man...tiresome. At least I can avoid the threads with either \"Sunshiner\" or \"Moonshiner\" in the title...you can pretty much be forewarned that those are destined to be nothing more than pi$$ing contests between the two blocs. But a guy might have thought that something titled \"No quit in the Saints\" might have been safe. ________________________________________________________ Fortunately for you, I am trained in abstract thinking, and I will endeavor to break down this complex thread for you... but before I do unwillingly condescend to respond to your rant, I only know what I know, and look for informed opinions to augment that knowledge, so please don\'t count me in on your \"who\'s genitalia are bigger\" overgeneralizatoin. The \"No Quit\" concept has been uniformly acknowledged for this team. There are very few examples of quitters, and given this team\'s makeup, those players are obvious. This group are willing and they have great talent and capacity to use that talent. Here\'s where the thread gets complicated... All oars have to be rowing in concert and in the same direction. \"No quit\" is meaningless if only looked at from the athlete\'s perspective. While there\'s no evidence that the Staff is quitting, their job is to learn from the behaviors and limitations of the team they have and the teams they play against. While it is clear there is every intent to win games, the issue is how this Staff has repeatedly demonstrated that they cannot adjust, they cannot communicate and they cannot teach. They are \"No Quit\" on their baseline assumptions on how to win. So, to conclude, counterpointing (is that too complex a concept?) is essential to gaining enlightenment, and properly directed \"no quit\" attitude will ultimately gain satisfaction, and thus this thread\'s gentle prodding toward that mission. Thank you, Mr. Will.
Puddinhead 100th Post Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 102

12-21-2004, 02:12 PM	#23
xan Professor Crab and Site Donor 2014 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Princeton Posts: 3,355 Blog Entries: 34	No quit in the Saints Quote from BlackandBlue: ________________________________________________________ do you strictly use eloquent verbiage as a way to intimidate those you interact with? ________________________________________________________ it should read, \"to intimidate those with whom you interact?\" I stand in abject sorrow for any unsupported parry that has caused harm, but I will not apologize for nor renounce command over my native toungue. I realize that this is no excuse, but I was a bit rushed to post and was somewhat loose with syntax. Thanks and I will try to be more diligent. (no, really!) I appreciate the posters who spend the extra time to construct well honed, precise and concise arguments and observations. And it is humbling to be recognized by them for my own. Anyway... Is it my imagination, or is it possible that with all the recent injuries for the Eagles, Vikings, Falcons and Seahawks, that there COULD be a straight shot to the Superbowl if the D shows up like it has the last two weeks? Is that a reason not to quit??
	Calvin: "I wish I was a Tiger." Hobbes: "Common lament."

12-21-2004, 03:05 PM	#24
RDOX 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 264	No quit in the Saints Quote from BlackandBlue: ________________________________________________________ do you strictly use eloquent verbiage as a way to intimidate those you interact with? ________________________________________________________ it should read, \"to intimidate those with whom you interact?\" I stand in abject sorrow for any unsupported parry that has caused harm, but I will not apologize for nor renounce command over my native toungue. I realize that this is no excuse, but I was a bit rushed to post and was somewhat loose with syntax. Thanks and I will try to be more diligent. (no, really!) I appreciate the posters who spend the extra time to construct well honed, precise and concise arguments and observations. And it is humbling to be recognized by them for my own. Anyway... Is it my imagination, or is it possible that with all the recent injuries for the Eagles, Vikings, Falcons and Seahawks, that there COULD be a straight shot to the Superbowl if the D shows up like it has the last two weeks? Is that a reason not to quit?? My God!! Someone who can read and write. How refreshing. Xan, I have read with interest and agreement your statements and I must say that I completely agree with your train of though, your line of reasoning, and your outstanding ability to express yourself. Saintfan. I may have done well in the Ditka era, and I\'m sure that I\'d do well today, because what this LEAGUE lacks for the most part is a sense of discipline. That word is not synonomous with punishment by the way. I see a lack of personal discipline (self discipline) in Brooks, Jones, Hodge, Sullivan, and others on this team. I see a lack of discipline in the front office, in not being able to guide a new Head Coach (yes, he is new) with regard to player selection, player pay, and player control. What has gone on in this organization has been that everyone sort of went their own way, relied on raw talent alone, and just played when they wanted to. What you see in Charles Grant, Willie Whitehead, Brian Young, Will Smith, & Darren Howard is the result of an old school guy (from the Ditka era) taking charge of a talented group of guys and molding, teaching, motivating, and helping them to do well. It has taken most of this season to get there. Why? Because the scheme is too complicated. I believe that he dumbed it down some and these guys saw some success. They are 100% better than at the beginning of the season. Why? Discipline! Demanding that a player reach down and get some more that he doesn\'t think he/she has. Has anyone seen the movie Miracle? Herb Brooks was one of the DITKA ERA coaches. What did he do? He took a group of college kids who had never seen each other before and made a TEAM that beat the finest Hockey team that the world had ever seen. Because one says that you need to be tough with a group of players, doesn\'t mean that you chain them in a dungeon somewhere. Watch what Parcell does next year, he may no win the SB, but I\'d be willing to bet that Dallas is in the running for each game. Same with Coughlin, Same with Mora. The secret of success as a coach is to get a player to look inward and bring out the very finest effort that he/she can bring. There are as many various styles as there are coaches. One thing for certain, you can\'t be buddies, you have to stay across the line, slightly aloof, reachable when necessary, but always demanding the best from your team. That has not been done here. I believe that Hazlett suffers from something called \"Role Ambivilence.\" That is, he still wants to play and be thought of as a stud linebacker, and not a Head Coach. He wants to be one of the guys. He can\'t. He\'s the Head Coach, and needs to act and perform like one. One day he will. Hopefully, here. Hopefully, this last part of the season, and into next year.
RDOX 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 264

12-21-2004, 03:20 PM	#25
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	No quit in the Saints what this LEAGUE lacks for the most part is a sense of discipline. I agree with you totally, and so does Bill Parcells, who by the way is having a difficult time figuring out why his team doesn\'t play with discipline. He\'s publically called them stupid this year. Go and Figure huh?

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12-21-2004, 03:34 PM	#26
RDOX 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 264	No quit in the Saints what this LEAGUE lacks for the most part is a sense of discipline. I agree with you totally, and so does Bill Parcells, who by the way is having a difficult time figuring out why his team doesn\'t play with discipline. He\'s publically called them stupid this year. Go and Figure huh? You know, I don\'t agree with that kind of stuff. That is the OLD SCHOOL kinda approach. I feel that this free agency thing has backfired on a lot of people. Especially, the management! Not to harken back to the good old days, but to remember what went on in the Lombardi, Shula, Landry, Stram, Phillips days; first the players were pretty well locked into their teams. They could be traded, quit, or retire. The point is that if you look at what transpired in those days, you see a coach stay with a team for a period of time that allows him to build and develop his young players. Landry is probably the best example of that. He was the 1st coach of the Cowgirls, and they stunk. They were a laughingstock of the NFL. When he was finished, they were \"America\'s Team.\" Lombardi was O Coordinator of New York Giants before he was hired by Green Bay. The only team that Green Bay could beat was Dallas. They were terrible. Now Lombardi is applauded as one of the best, if not the best, coach in NFL history. What all of these guys had is stability in their teams. They knew each other and played with each other; AS A UNIT! This is what I think that Parcells brought to New York Giants, and Jets, then New England, and will bring it to Dallas somehow. But with the free agency \"era\" there is no stability, and no permanence. These folks move every time the wind blows, if the soup is cold, or the tea is hot. Turley moved because he didn\'t like the food here, for God Sake. I am personally tired of seeing what I consider a group of spoiled, ingnorant, overpaid children go out to play a game, that is supposed to be fun, and then gripe over whether or not a fan booed them or some such. I stand by my statement that Aaron Brooks would be a towel boy at the car wash if he couldn\'t throw a football.
RDOX 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 264

12-21-2004, 03:47 PM	#27
Danno Site Donor 2014 Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,640	No quit in the Saints What a profound post, considering the condescending nature. A fellow intellectual, perhaps? What I find most interesting, is your proficiency with parlance, but your lack of execution with sentence structure itself, which leaves me questioning- do you strictly use eloquent verbiage as a way to intimidate those you interact with? Ahhh this veritable plethora of aesthetic prose has me pondering one of my favorite song lyrics... B&B will probably know who they are... They call me mister know-it-all I am so eloquent Perfection is my middle name and....whatever rhymes with eloquent

12-21-2004, 03:48 PM	#28
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	No quit in the Saints do you strictly use eloquent verbiage as a way to intimidate those you interact with? I believe, BnB, that you were trying to say: do you strictly use eloquent verbiage as a way to intimidate those with whom you interact? can\'t finish a word with a preposition my friend! LOL [insert steam coming from the big guy\'s ears] [Edited on 21/12/2004 by WhoDat]
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

12-21-2004, 03:50 PM	#29
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	No quit in the Saints A \"prime\" example Danno...and you thought BandB was the only one. :band2.sml:

12-21-2004, 04:09 PM	#30
Danno Site Donor 2014 Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,640	No quit in the Saints A \"prime\" example Danno...and you thought BandB was the only one. :band2.sml: Too many puppies, Oh well, I guess its pudding time children I\'m gonna have to pull that one off the shelf tonight!