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Hey WhoDat, about Horn...

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; The more I think about it, and the more I see Joe produce (very few drops lately), I'm starting to sway toward your point of view on him. Unbelievably, he really shows no signs of aging yet and with Deuce ...

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Old 12-23-2004, 09:42 AM   #1
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Hey WhoDat, about Horn...

The more I think about it, and the more I see Joe produce (very few drops lately), I'm starting to sway toward your point of view on him. Unbelievably, he really shows no signs of aging yet and with Deuce slumping I think it might be a good move to re-sign this guy. I am curious about the salary figures. Is it Moss type money? Or is it fairly affordable? I'm not nearly as opposed to moderately overpaying him as as was earlier in the season.
He could still work on the drops and the poor blocking, but RIGHT NOW, there are only a handful of WR's I'd take over him for immediate future. And we already have two and a half long term solutions here already with Donte, Devery and Talman, Talman being the half.
And most importantly, keeping Horn means its one less offensive position to address next year and interfere with getting a high quality NT and LB. Among other needs.
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Old 12-24-2004, 04:33 AM   #2
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Hey WhoDat, about Horn...

I think you have to pay the guy alot. His receiving ability is not about speed so his age and losing a step is not near as important as with others. His talent is in catching(good hands), and also getting just enough seperation from the defenders to make catches. He is one of the few consistencies in a franchise built aroun mediocrity. As far as drops I was trying to find a stat to compare him to other receivers. Also what would be \"overpaying\" him? Is Donte a viable solution? There is a guy who needs to work on drops. His speed is awesome but unfortunately this is not track and field, and to be a receiver his primary function is to catch. I may be wrong but he has a little over half of the receiving yards Horn has. Donte also has 2 yards less on the average per catch. One interesting thing is Pathon whom we have all seen drop more than his fair share has a 16.8 yard average , higher than Horn or Stallworth. The point is Horn still has a career he joined the Chiefs in \'96 but didn\'t start playing until \'98. Big mistake not to pay him top shelf money.

Don't want 'em to get your goat....don't show 'em where it's hid
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Old 12-24-2004, 05:50 AM   #3
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Hey WhoDat, about Horn...

Alot of old hands are turning in solid seasons for their respective teams this year, especially RB\'s. Under the general assumption that 30 is old for a skill-position athlete, some examples:

RB
Curtis Martin - 330 rushes for 1511 yds & 12 TD\'s, 34 receptions for 179 yds & 2 TD\'s. Currently leads the NFL in rushing yardage at 31.
Priest Holmes - 196 rushes for 892 yds & 14 TD\'s in only 8 games this season. At 31, probably the most dominating offensive player in the league when healthy.
Jerome Bettis - 223 rushes for 824 yds & 13 TD\'s. Once written off as a goal-line back, has filled in nicely during Duce Staley\'s absence. He\'ll be 33 in February.
Emmitt Smith - 221 rushes for 803 yds & 9 TD\'s. At 35! Hard to believe, but the Cardinals would be even worse without him. Embarrassed the heck out of us earlier this year.
Marshall Faulk - not on calibre with the others listed, but the injury-prone superstar has posted 171 rushes for 705 yds & 3 TD\'s, 49 receptions for 299 yds & 1 TD. Still contributing at 31.

WR
Well ... Joe Horn - 85 receptions for 1248 yds & 10 TD\'s. At almost 33, currently leads the NFL in receiving yardage. Still a great dancer, too.
Terrell Owens - Yup, he\'s 31 and currently injured. But Philly got their money\'s worth with 77 receptions for 1200 yds & 14 TD\'s. Many NFC teams (and football fans in general) breathed a sigh of relief when he got hurt.
Muhsin Muhammed - 79 receptions for 1195 yds & 12 TD\'s. Probably the hottest WR in the NFL right now at 31.
Jimmy Smith - 69 receptions for 1133 yds & 6 TD\'s in a dink-and-dunk offense. Will be 36 in February.
Isaac Bruce - 76 receptions for 1108 yds & 4 TD\'s. Has re-emerged as a real threat at 32.

Granted, you still have your Eddie George\'s and Jerry Rice\'s stinking the place up. But the players listed, and others, are debunking the old theory that age 30 is a death sentence for an NFL player\'s career.

Perhaps we should examine the evidence very carefully before we let Joe Horn get away...
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Old 12-25-2004, 06:57 PM   #4
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Hey WhoDat, about Horn...

Joe horn enters the last year of his contract next season, so if anything changes we\'re talking about renegotiating a longer-term deal to keep him here. The other thing most people don\'t understand is that Horn has already received the bulk of the money for this current contract, though next year\'s numbers are somewhat steep.

Here\'s the breakdown:

Horn resigned an extension with the Saints before the 2003 season. It was a 3 year, $13 million contract. He made $7.5 mil of it in 2003 ($5.1 in signing bonus, $1.7 in roster bonus, and $700K in salary). This year, he\'s making only $700K in salary - quite a steal. Next year, he\'s scheduled to make $4.8 Mil total, with $1 mil in roster bonus and $3.8 in salary. That could probably be spread over a longer period of time for cap purposes if he signs an extension.

Moss is currently playing under an 8 year, $75 million dollar contract. So while Joe is averaging about $4 million a season, Moss is making $9 million. Yeah, I think Horn is worth it.

Link for Horn
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200.../07/king.mmqb/

Link for Moss
http://espn.go.com/nfl/columns/clayt...n/1230917.html


Glad you\'re starting to see things my way.

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\"
he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"
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