Accurate Read

Rugby Saint II · 10-07-2014, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by QBREES9

The only thing "proven" today is that we still make too many mistakes which allows teams to hang in there.

Brees gave them 14 pts today. That doesn't happen often. He made bad decisions.

You can't turn the ball over and win. We got lucky.

You can turn the ball over.......it's just dang tough to win like that.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 10-07-2014, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by vpheughan

The answer is simple: Get back to basics and simplify the defense. Don't forget to make the winning team hurt the day after!! Uh Oh! we won so we're the one hurting today! Thank goodness for the bye!

I'd like to ask the forum why it seems the defense cannot do very simple tasks that made them a top 5 defense, with essentially the same personnel, as last season:

1. Tackling?

2. Getting after the QB? Last year Jordan and Gillete accounted for 25+ sacks. Where did that pressure disappear to?

3. Getting off the field on 3rd down? Honestly, if the defense could just do this, the team has enough offensive firepower (when not turning the ball over) to compensate.

4. Turnovers? At least once in a while?

Why does the defense look so different in less than a year's span?

SFIAH

Danno · 10-07-2014, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

I'd like to ask the forum why it seems the defense cannot do very simple tasks that made them a top 5 defense, with essentially the same personnel, as last season:

1. Tackling?

2. Getting after the QB? Last year Jordan and Gillete accounted for 25+ sacks. Where did that pressure disappear to?

3. Getting off the field on 3rd down? Honestly, if the defense could just do this, the team has enough offensive firepower (when not turning the ball over) to compensate.

4. Turnovers? At least once in a while?

Why does the defense look so different in less than a year's span?

SFIAH

IMO its because they tweaked the scheme trying to get cute instead of keeping the same sound scheme and developing the players.

The players look confuse way too frequently.

It seems like they didn't trust the talent they had and decided to alter the scheme with more packages.

Kinda like using smoke and mirrors when smoke and mirrors wasn't really necessary.

NonieT · 10-07-2014, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

IMO its because they tweaked the scheme trying to get cute instead of keeping the same sound scheme and developing the players.

The players look confuse way too frequently.

It seems like they didn't trust the talent they had and decided to alter the scheme with more packages.

Kinda like using smoke and mirrors when smoke and mirrors wasn't really necessary.

BINGO!!!!!

44Champs · 10-07-2014, 10:30 PM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

I'd like to ask the forum why it seems the defense cannot do very simple tasks that made them a top 5 defense, with essentially the same personnel, as last season:

1. Tackling?

2. Getting after the QB? Last year Jordan and Gillete accounted for 25+ sacks. Where did that pressure disappear to?

3. Getting off the field on 3rd down? Honestly, if the defense could just do this, the team has enough offensive firepower (when not turning the ball over) to compensate.

4. Turnovers? At least once in a while?

Why does the defense look so different in less than a year's span?

SFIAH

Cuz Rob Ryan wanted to get "weird"

SaintFanInATLHELL · 10-08-2014, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

I'd like to ask the forum why it seems the defense cannot do very simple tasks that made them a top 5 defense, with essentially the same personnel, as last season:

1. Tackling?

2. Getting after the QB? Last year Jordan and Gillete accounted for 25+ sacks. Where did that pressure disappear to?

3. Getting off the field on 3rd down? Honestly, if the defense could just do this, the team has enough offensive firepower (when not turning the ball over) to compensate.

4. Turnovers? At least once in a while?

Why does the defense look so different in less than a year's span?

SFIAH

Originally Posted by 44Champs

Cuz Rob Ryan wanted to get "weird"

But Why? It wasn't broke. So why was there a need to fix it?

SFIAH

whybag · 10-08-2014, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by WhoDat!656

You neglected to mention that in 2010 when the Saints played the PEDhawks the Saints ground game was crippled by injuries, so the Saints were forced to be one-dimensional.

In 2011 PT caught a freakishly unlucky hit to the base of the helmet and got knocked out of the game on a sure-fire TD. That play swung the game to me.

WHODATINCA · 10-08-2014, 11:28 PM

Maybe I don't understand what a finesse team is.....but I think your premise is flawed.

I think most teams want to do both "ground and pound" and have a frightening aerial attack. And, if you can, why wouldn't you?

Through the first quarter of this season -- one whole side of the ball ( our defense ) hasn't played well. Our offense ( while not playing like 2011 ) played well enough to win these games. Only problem was our defense didn't hold up it's end of the bargain.

We certainly HAD a stout defense last year and we were trying to be balanced and run the ball -- only problem was the O-Line had the opposite problem from this year -- couldn't run block.

So, anyhow, with Sean Payton and Drew Brees, we will never be the Ravens or the Chiefs. You can forget that. But, I don't think that's a bad thing, except if you are saying that we can't do everything well -- ( dome patrol, aerial attack, beastmode and video game scoring ). And, if that's what you are saying maybe you are right -- but you can't fault Payton/Loomis for trying.

One difference in the way our team is assembled, that is different from teams like Seattle, Cheifs, Ravens, etc. is that they seem to have star running backs who regularly have 80+ yd games. We seem to operate with committees. Committees of running backs, receivers, etc. That is a different style and I wonder if it is better.

saintsfan1976 · 10-09-2014, 06:25 AM

Originally Posted by whybag

In 2011 PT caught a freakishly unlucky hit to the base of the helmet and got knocked out of the game on a sure-fire TD. That play swung the game to me.

Just like vs San Fran

Seer1 · 10-09-2014, 07:36 AM

Originally Posted by Saintaintso

Why This Game Will Transform the Saints
I said it once I've said it a million times. bad things happen when we don't play good defense.

Minnesota excluded , Brees has turned the ball over in every single game this year and as far back as in Philadelphia last year as well and still, we were in almost every single game.

Seattle didn't expose us. They were merely a precursor of what was coming. A shift. The resurrection of physicality and good defense. The Baileys and Strahans of the world have retired only to give rise to the Suh's and Shermans. This style of football is different from Bradys and even Mannings heyday. Its not so easy for us to keep 50 off their side anymore.

I noticed it started changing from Arena League back to Jack Tatums hard nosed league when our high powered offense went into Seattle in 2010 and couldn't stop Lynch to save our lives , Then again in San Francisco the year after we couldn't even stop a QB run.

What im saying is , the rams beating us down repeatedly in the past was a message from the football gods. We cannot remain as we are , a non-tackling team.

The Bucs are tough , The Panthers , The Niners , The Lions , The Jets , The Texans , The Seahawks , The Vikings , The Bills , Hell even Cleveland ! Come to think about it, every team's pretty tough...

Singletary set this trend in motion when he designed the 49ers to be phsyical beasts , Seattle copied them down to the mobile QB , and was even better at it !

Dallas got the Memo too , tackle! Now all of the sudden they cant be stopped.

So how did this win change anything ? Its kind of interesting actually, we proved we cannot win by missing tackles and being out of position anymore.

More importantly Payton proved it to himself. Dead check man in the mirror like. Is something wrong with Brees ? Doesnt matter , we should be running the ball anyways.(Not sure what to do with this one...)

we are right back in the mix , Ingram will be back , Graham has time and we get a needed opportunity to reset the season

FIFY

10-07-2014, 01:50 PM	#21
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 23,720	Re: Accurate Read Originally Posted by QBREES9 The only thing "proven" today is that we still make too many mistakes which allows teams to hang in there. Brees gave them 14 pts today. That doesn't happen often. He made bad decisions. You can't turn the ball over and win. We got lucky. You can turn the ball over.......it's just dang tough to win like that.

10-07-2014, 02:59 PM	#22
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,647	Re: Accurate Read Originally Posted by vpheughan The answer is simple: Get back to basics and simplify the defense. Don't forget to make the winning team hurt the day after!! Uh Oh! we won so we're the one hurting today! Thank goodness for the bye! I'd like to ask the forum why it seems the defense cannot do very simple tasks that made them a top 5 defense, with essentially the same personnel, as last season: 1. Tackling? 2. Getting after the QB? Last year Jordan and Gillete accounted for 25+ sacks. Where did that pressure disappear to? 3. Getting off the field on 3rd down? Honestly, if the defense could just do this, the team has enough offensive firepower (when not turning the ball over) to compensate. 4. Turnovers? At least once in a while? Why does the defense look so different in less than a year's span? SFIAH saintsfan1976 likes this.
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

10-07-2014, 05:42 PM	#23
Danno Site Donor 2014 Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,640	Re: Accurate Read Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL I'd like to ask the forum why it seems the defense cannot do very simple tasks that made them a top 5 defense, with essentially the same personnel, as last season: 1. Tackling? 2. Getting after the QB? Last year Jordan and Gillete accounted for 25+ sacks. Where did that pressure disappear to? 3. Getting off the field on 3rd down? Honestly, if the defense could just do this, the team has enough offensive firepower (when not turning the ball over) to compensate. 4. Turnovers? At least once in a while? Why does the defense look so different in less than a year's span? SFIAH IMO its because they tweaked the scheme trying to get cute instead of keeping the same sound scheme and developing the players. The players look confuse way too frequently. It seems like they didn't trust the talent they had and decided to alter the scheme with more packages. Kinda like using smoke and mirrors when smoke and mirrors wasn't really necessary. SaintFanInATLHELL and saintsfan1976 like this.

10-07-2014, 06:00 PM	#24
NonieT 500th Post Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 921	Re: Accurate Read Originally Posted by Danno IMO its because they tweaked the scheme trying to get cute instead of keeping the same sound scheme and developing the players. The players look confuse way too frequently. It seems like they didn't trust the talent they had and decided to alter the scheme with more packages. Kinda like using smoke and mirrors when smoke and mirrors wasn't really necessary. BINGO!!!!!
NonieT 500th Post Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 921

10-07-2014, 10:30 PM	#25
44Champs Site Donor Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 2,589	Re: Accurate Read Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL I'd like to ask the forum why it seems the defense cannot do very simple tasks that made them a top 5 defense, with essentially the same personnel, as last season: 1. Tackling? 2. Getting after the QB? Last year Jordan and Gillete accounted for 25+ sacks. Where did that pressure disappear to? 3. Getting off the field on 3rd down? Honestly, if the defense could just do this, the team has enough offensive firepower (when not turning the ball over) to compensate. 4. Turnovers? At least once in a while? Why does the defense look so different in less than a year's span? SFIAH Cuz Rob Ryan wanted to get "weird"
44Champs Site Donor Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 2,589

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10-08-2014, 12:41 PM	#26
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,647	Re: Accurate Read Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL I'd like to ask the forum why it seems the defense cannot do very simple tasks that made them a top 5 defense, with essentially the same personnel, as last season: 1. Tackling? 2. Getting after the QB? Last year Jordan and Gillete accounted for 25+ sacks. Where did that pressure disappear to? 3. Getting off the field on 3rd down? Honestly, if the defense could just do this, the team has enough offensive firepower (when not turning the ball over) to compensate. 4. Turnovers? At least once in a while? Why does the defense look so different in less than a year's span? SFIAH Originally Posted by 44Champs Cuz Rob Ryan wanted to get "weird" But Why? It wasn't broke. So why was there a need to fix it? SFIAH

10-08-2014, 08:49 PM	#27
whybag 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 365	Re: Accurate Read Originally Posted by WhoDat!656 You neglected to mention that in 2010 when the Saints played the PEDhawks the Saints ground game was crippled by injuries, so the Saints were forced to be one-dimensional. In 2011 PT caught a freakishly unlucky hit to the base of the helmet and got knocked out of the game on a sure-fire TD. That play swung the game to me.
whybag 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 365

10-08-2014, 11:28 PM	#28
WHODATINCA Site Donor Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: South Bay Posts: 3,784	Re: Accurate Read Maybe I don't understand what a finesse team is.....but I think your premise is flawed. I think most teams want to do both "ground and pound" and have a frightening aerial attack. And, if you can, why wouldn't you? Through the first quarter of this season -- one whole side of the ball ( our defense ) hasn't played well. Our offense ( while not playing like 2011 ) played well enough to win these games. Only problem was our defense didn't hold up it's end of the bargain. We certainly HAD a stout defense last year and we were trying to be balanced and run the ball -- only problem was the O-Line had the opposite problem from this year -- couldn't run block. So, anyhow, with Sean Payton and Drew Brees, we will never be the Ravens or the Chiefs. You can forget that. But, I don't think that's a bad thing, except if you are saying that we can't do everything well -- ( dome patrol, aerial attack, beastmode and video game scoring ). And, if that's what you are saying maybe you are right -- but you can't fault Payton/Loomis for trying. One difference in the way our team is assembled, that is different from teams like Seattle, Cheifs, Ravens, etc. is that they seem to have star running backs who regularly have 80+ yd games. We seem to operate with committees. Committees of running backs, receivers, etc. That is a different style and I wonder if it is better.
	Shutdown defense in 2017 = Championship!

10-09-2014, 06:25 AM	#29
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,530 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Accurate Read Originally Posted by whybag In 2011 PT caught a freakishly unlucky hit to the base of the helmet and got knocked out of the game on a sure-fire TD. That play swung the game to me. Just like vs San Fran

10-09-2014, 07:36 AM	#30
Seer1 Site Donor Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Bayou Bayfield CO Posts: 4,722	Re: Accurate Read Originally Posted by Saintaintso Why This Game Will Transform the Saints I said it once I've said it a million times. bad things happen when we don't play good defense. Minnesota excluded , Brees has turned the ball over in every single game this year and as far back as in Philadelphia last year as well and still, we were in almost every single game. Seattle didn't expose us. They were merely a precursor of what was coming. A shift. The resurrection of physicality and good defense. The Baileys and Strahans of the world have retired only to give rise to the Suh's and Shermans. This style of football is different from Bradys and even Mannings heyday. Its not so easy for us to keep 50 off their side anymore. I noticed it started changing from Arena League back to Jack Tatums hard nosed league when our high powered offense went into Seattle in 2010 and couldn't stop Lynch to save our lives , Then again in San Francisco the year after we couldn't even stop a QB run. What im saying is , the rams beating us down repeatedly in the past was a message from the football gods. We cannot remain as we are , a non-tackling team. The Bucs are tough , The Panthers , The Niners , The Lions , The Jets , The Texans , The Seahawks , The Vikings , The Bills , Hell even Cleveland ! Come to think about it, every team's pretty tough... Singletary set this trend in motion when he designed the 49ers to be phsyical beasts , Seattle copied them down to the mobile QB , and was even better at it ! Dallas got the Memo too , tackle! Now all of the sudden they cant be stopped. So how did this win change anything ? Its kind of interesting actually, we proved we cannot win by missing tackles and being out of position anymore. More importantly Payton proved it to himself. Dead check man in the mirror like. Is something wrong with Brees ? Doesnt matter , we should be running the ball anyways.(Not sure what to do with this one...) we are right back in the mix , Ingram will be back , Graham has time and we get a needed opportunity to reset the season FIFY

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