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this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; In case you haven\'t heard, the media is filled with Big Ben 12-0 and Brayd loses game against the Dolphins with his uncharacteristic 4 picks and Ben is better than Eli caus eEli is 0-6 and he is 12-0. If ...

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Old 12-27-2004, 01:52 PM   #11
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Why do you come here?

In case you haven\'t heard, the media is filled with Big Ben 12-0 and Brayd loses game against the Dolphins with his uncharacteristic 4 picks and Ben is better than Eli caus eEli is 0-6 and he is 12-0.
If you don\'t see those reports, you either choose not to watch ESPN, Fox Sunday Countdown or CBS pregame show. ALso choose to ignore ESPN\'s web page, the NFL\'s, and any other reports. Reload that answer and try again.
If you choose to ignore a QB\'s supporting cast then there\'s no way I\'ll ever convince you it matters. I guess you think Dilfer was a better QB than Marino huh?



This isn\'t my logic, it\'s how it works. Like I said, if you choose to avoid the main media sports outlets, you won\'t see this. Once again, this is where the media places the blame mainly, the qb. Should I say it again to get the point across? Media=blame qbs for losses and praise them for wins. I will repeat it further down so you won\'t again draw the inference that that is my idea. I KNOW it isn\'t all Eli\'s fault the Giants lose, yet all you get out of the news is Eli is 0-6 and he won;t be a Peyton and he is no Ben and blah blah blah. SO say it with me now, media=blames qbs for losses, praises for wins, get it now?
Except when YOU are talking about Brooks.
I\'ll type real slow just for you...
You can\'t blame or credit a QB without looking at the whole picture.
So an offense that goes 3 and out EVERY first quarter and never gives it\'s D a lead is fine with you?
I never said that. Try again. I said its not Brooks fault.
Like I said, glad you aren\'t in the front office. If you can\'t see a direct correlation between horrible plays by the offense and a poor defense, I don\'t know how to expand your range of view. Offense turns the ball over in the redzone, is that the defense\'s fault. INT in the opposing team\'s red zone, I guess that is the defense\'s fault too. Okay.
If you can\'t see that our offensive problems go beyond Brooks, I don\'t think its possible to expand your range of view. And if you think our defense is as bad as it is directly because of the offense then its also not worth trying.
It wasn\'t hard either. AB hands to Deuce, and throws to Horn. Let me make it simple, if AB fumbles the snap, does that effect Horn or Deuce? Yup. If AB throws an INT or a backwards pass, does that effect Horn or Deuce? Yup. Can Horn or Deuce have done anything to change that? Nope. Get it now?
So if Deuce fumbles, it Aarons fault.
And if Horn drops a ball, its Aarons fault.
If Pathon fumbles at the 2, its Aarons fault.
If Gandy and Riley false start twice a quarter, its Aaron\'s fault.
If Deuce gets hit 5 yards behind the line, its Aarons fault.
If Brooks gets sacked in 2 seconds, by 4 D-linemen at once, its Aarons fault.
If McCarthy calls an incredibly predictable gameplan, its Aarons fault.
Yea, I\'m starting to get it now.

Yeah, look at the great defenses the Colts, Vikes, and PAckers have. Playoff teams. I am sure they are hanging their every victory on the defense. lol
So what exactly is your answer to Dilfer getting the credit for the Ravens SB?
Don\'t think I actually saw it in your reply. Reload and try again. Its not a hard answer.
Stomp once for yes, he got the credit
Stomp twice for no, he didn\'t get the credit.
I\'ll give you another hint, Dilfer didn\'t get the SB MVP.
BTW: Every time the Colts and Vikes play someone with a good defense in the playoffs, they get beat.
Way to be sarcastic. Let me know when AB wins a game without Deuce, Stecker, and Horn and then we\'ll talk.
Sometimes what goes around...
I guess according to your logic if the Saints beat the Panthers this week, then Brooks will have won without Deuce, Stecker, and Horn.

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Old 12-27-2004, 02:19 PM   #12
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Why do you come here?

It seems to me, that without forums like this, issues of performance and strategy cannot make their way (however circuitously) back to those who can make a difference. We collectively hone our shared experiences and insights into coherent and lucent remedies for existing and future problems. We are compelled to do this because we genetic mongrels incapable of accepting mediocrity from our clan. In a culture of \"how can I get gratification quickest,\" and in particular when the topic of the Saints, the most obvious solution is to ignore them and hope they\'ll go away. For those who chose to howl at the moon, we do so because we know that true gratification comes with the pain of achieving more than what is expected.

I ,for one, will continue to howl.

Calvin: "I wish I was a Tiger."
Hobbes: "Common lament."
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Old 12-27-2004, 02:27 PM   #13
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Danno, I would continue this, but I don\'t wanna get warned. It\'s easy to see you are the type who sees what you wanna see and makes out of things what you want. Here\'s an example of why there is no need for me to continue:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This isn\'t my logic, it\'s how it works. Like I said, if you choose to avoid the main media sports outlets, you won\'t see this. Once again, this is where the media places the blame mainly, the qb. Should I say it again to get the point across? Media=blame qbs for losses and praise them for wins. I will repeat it further down so you won\'t again draw the inference that that is my idea. I KNOW it isn\'t all Eli\'s fault the Giants lose, yet all you get out of the news is Eli is 0-6 and he won;t be a Peyton and he is no Ben and blah blah blah. SO say it with me now, media=blames qbs for losses, praises for wins, get it now?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Except when YOU are talking about Brooks.
I\'ll type real slow just for you...
You can\'t blame or credit a QB without looking at the whole picture.
I said this is what the media does, and you tell me how I can\'t blame or credit a qb w/o looking at the whole picture. Huh? Did I not just say I saw that Eli wasn\'t the reason the Giants were losing and also say the Steelers won cause of Bettis and their defense? Did you somehow not see that? AGAIN< THE MEDIA PLACED THE BLAME ON QBS. Why is it I get the feeling you will never get it?

Here\'s another example:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It wasn\'t hard either. AB hands to Deuce, and throws to Horn. Let me make it simple, if AB fumbles the snap, does that effect Horn or Deuce? Yup. If AB throws an INT or a backwards pass, does that effect Horn or Deuce? Yup. Can Horn or Deuce have done anything to change that? Nope. Get it now?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


So if Deuce fumbles, it Aarons fault.
And if Horn drops a ball, its Aarons fault.
If Pathon fumbles at the 2, its Aarons fault.
If Gandy and Riley false start twice a quarter, its Aaron\'s fault.
If Deuce gets hit 5 yards behind the line, its Aarons fault.
If Brooks gets sacked in 2 seconds, by 4 D-linemen at once, its Aarons fault.
If McCarthy calls an incredibly predictable gameplan, its Aarons fault.
Yea, I\'m starting to get it now
All I said was, AB gets more blame cause he controls the fate of those around him, pointing to a couple of examples where his bad play effects others. Somehow you turned it into some other time debate you had with someone else about AB being the rpoblem for everything. I guess if you have no defense for a better argument, throw in someone else\'s bad argument and argue that one huh? I\'m a little beyond that trick.

So since your mind is made up, and not only will you read what you wanna but you will throw others arguments in and battle them as if they are mine, I see no reason to continue.

Sometimes what goes around...
I guess according to your logic if the Saints beat the Panthers this week, then Brooks will have won without Deuce, Stecker, and Horn.
Oh, and any casual football fan knows Jake is playing without his 3 numbers one weapons on offense. I guess while you were sleeping through the sports shows you missed that too. He has been the whole season. Look it up on ESPN.

So what exactly is your answer to Dilfer getting the credit for the Ravens SB?
Don\'t think I actually saw it in your reply. Reload and try again. Its not a hard answer.
Stomp once for yes, he got the credit
Stomp twice for no, he didn\'t get the credit.
I\'ll give you another hint, Dilfer didn\'t get the SB MVP.
BTW: Every time the Colts and Vikes play someone with a good defense in the playoffs, they get beat.
But wait, you said wins/losses are decided by defense. Is it playoff wins and losses now, cause you definitely didn\'t say that. So Miami has a high ranked D, shouldn\'t they automatically have a better record than the Colts, Vikes, or Pack according to your reasoning that defense wins? And how does Indy have a better record than Baltimore cause surely your logic can\'t be beat. And I need look no further than the Rams the year before the Ravens winning the Superbowl with one of the best offenses of all time. Then they went back to the Superbowl a year after the Ravens win, all offense again. Try again sport. Or maybe we should hand AJ Feeley and Kyle Boller their rings now cause good defense equals wins/losses. Oh that\'s right, they prob won\'t make the playoffs. Blows that one up don\'t it? Oh, and let\'s not forget the Redskins and their secodn ranked D. I am sure they will march right to, oh yeah 5 whole wins. Wow.

[Edited on 27/12/2004 by saintswhodi]
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Old 12-27-2004, 02:33 PM   #14
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OK, so Brooks isn\'t the best QB ever. He\'s better than Hebert and that was the last QB we had that took us to the playoffs. Brooks has way more touchdowns than Hebert and won the Saints\' only playoff game ever.

Remember when we had the 2 Billy Joes? Wuerffel? I\'ll take AB over those guys any day. As far as the interception in the end zone, Kevin got his hand in and deflected the ball. If he hadn\'t laid out like that, it was a sure TD. It\'s a game of inches.

There aren\'t many great QB\'s around for us to go get. If so, Dallas and Arizona would already have them. AB is our QB and that\'s the way it is.

I think the problem we have is that AB is streaky and we run this \"Pass to set up the Run\" crap. AB would perform a lot better if we ran Deuce to set up the pass. Lombardi would blow a gasket if he saw our offensive philosophy. We\'re not the Rams.

Coach Fox said it best. There are 3 things that can happen on a pass and 2 of them are bad. When you run, you usually hold onto the ball. Duece is a hoss and he needs to be used more in the first quarter the way we used Ricky. It would take a lot of pressure off of AB so he could play within his game.

Hind sight is always 20-20, but we have to fight for and with the team we have. No one would have picked Carolina to go to the show last year so two tears in a bucket, f*** it!

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Old 12-27-2004, 02:37 PM   #15
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Why do you come here?

It seems to me, that without forums like this, issues of performance and strategy cannot make their way (however circuitously) back to those who can make a difference. We collectively hone our shared experiences and insights into coherent and lucent remedies for existing and future problems. We are compelled to do this because we genetic mongrels incapable of accepting mediocrity from our clan. In a culture of \"how can I get gratification quickest,\" and in particular when the topic of the Saints, the most obvious solution is to ignore them and hope they\'ll go away. For those who chose to howl at the moon, we do so because we know that true gratification comes with the pain of achieving more than what is expected.

I ,for one, will continue to howl.
Thats way cool.
I truly wish I could write like that.
I do enjoy it.
Welcome aboard xan.
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Old 12-27-2004, 02:45 PM   #16
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I\'m howling with you xan. Someone at some point has to see the logic in what is being said about the team and bring about change. Medicority is far too easily accepted by too many of our bretheren.
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Old 12-27-2004, 03:09 PM   #17
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Why do you come here?

I come to the board to read. I am not a heavy poster as my stats will tell, but I read these boards at least once a day to catch up on the latest Saint\'s news and have for almost 3 years since I found you guys. I find that people here are informative once you get past the internet ego and realize that everyone of you is just as biased and full of **** as I am. I post only when I feel I can contribute to a discussion more than just my personal pom-pom waving or revolting disdain for the topic.

I use this board to learn about my favorite team, so that in my line of work as a bartender, I can be informed and opinioned on every topic relating to the Saints, and B&G.net members do a great job of searching the depths of the internet for any news related to the Saints and posting them here, making this forum absolutely the best compilation of Saints information on the web.

Also, when someone disagrees with the way I feel and doesnt provide facts enough to convince me otherwise, I dismiss it and move on regardless of how many times they try to force feed it to me. Likewise, I will never take the bait of of someone trying to start an argument based on opinion and emotion, and not fact because it only leads to tempers and drama and dozens of worthless posts that we all have to scroll through to get any information that may be worthwhile.

Plus...its Christmas, dude. =)

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Old 12-27-2004, 04:08 PM   #18
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Why do you come here?

It seems to me, that without forums like this, issues of performance and strategy cannot make their way (however circuitously) back to those who can make a difference. We collectively hone our shared experiences and insights into coherent and lucent remedies for existing and future problems. We are compelled to do this because we genetic mongrels incapable of accepting mediocrity from our clan. In a culture of \"how can I get gratification quickest,\" and in particular when the topic of the Saints, the most obvious solution is to ignore them and hope they\'ll go away. For those who chose to howl at the moon, we do so because we know that true gratification comes with the pain of achieving more than what is expected.

I ,for one, will continue to howl.
Great Post!! All I can say is MYSELF!!!!

I come here to read what others feel about the team that I support and love. However, I do have an opinion about the personnel. Some of it is negative, because, like Xan, I know that they are not giving 110% to the effort.

Why do I come to this board. I post more here than anywhere, because I get respect, civil and intelligent answers, that are well thought out and cleverly put. Danno, you and whodi are two of my favorites. I like and respect what you both have to say. I like the two perspectives on the team, the coaches, and the personnel. I also like your responses to my posts.

This is a fact. This board is a more football oriented, mature, intelligent, and civil place than any other that I have seen. Maybe it\'s because Halo, Who Dat and Black and Blue keep the riff raff out. But I don\'t see any of the trash like AB DA MAN! AB SUCK! YOU SUCK! HIS STATS ARE GREAT;THEREFORE HE\'S GREAT! and all of the pap and stupidity that you see on the SR.Com boards or the old New Orleans Saints.Com board. It got so bad that they finally, douched in down the drain.

There is a tendency to dog Brooks. I believe that he deserves every thing that is dished out, because of the way that he has handled the situation. I, like you, believe that Brooks is at best, mediocre. He is horribly inconsistent. But, like it or not, the Head Coach and the Quarterback are the lightning rods of praise and criticism for whatever befalls their team.

MY TWO CENTS!!! :P
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Old 12-27-2004, 04:12 PM   #19
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Ok Saintswhodi... My last reply...
I\'ll use your quotes.

\"Brooks is terrible, or do you watch the games?
Has an AB led team ever beaten a Delhomme led team?
The QB gets credit for wins, and blamed for losses (according to media outlets).
That is not my opinion, its the media\'s. Get it?
This team is winning DESPITE Aaron Brooks.\"

Sorry if I mistook that for blaming Aaron Brooks. What was I thinking?


Danno - Points out OTHER problems on offense in addition to a \"not-so-great, but not terrible\" Brooks
Saintswhodi - \"So an offense that goes 3 & out EVERY 1st quarter is fine with you?\"

Danno - Points out Dilfer didn\'t get credit for SB win.
Saintswhodi - \"But wait, you say wins/losses are decided by defense\"

I think its pretty clear who sees things the way they want to.

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Old 12-27-2004, 04:30 PM   #20
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RDOX, thanks for the kind words.

Danno, :shrug: I know you may know what you meant, but the rest of us are at a loss. I\'ll just let it go since if I say the disagreement is going a certain way, you will do the same and not be original or respond to the post. Have a happy holiday. No need to argue. Your boy Brooks is leading us to the playoffs. xrotflmao:
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