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this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; You don\'t think he is ONE of the reason we won that game? A fumble that allowed us to seal the game instead of giving the greatest show on turf(whom we had beaten twice during the regular season also I ...

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Old 12-28-2004, 02:06 PM   #31
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Why do you come here?

You don\'t think he is ONE of the reason we won that game? A fumble that allowed us to seal the game instead of giving the greatest show on turf(whom we had beaten twice during the regular season also I will say) another shot at scoring?
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Old 12-28-2004, 02:36 PM   #32
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Why do you come here?

You don\'t think he is ONE of the reason we won that game? A fumble that allowed us to seal the game instead of giving the greatest show on turf(whom we had beaten twice during the regular season also I will say) another shot at scoring?
He helped seal the win with a great play. But you could also credit the punter just as well.
Haz instructed the punter to go high, because Az had a tendency to fumble, and it would give our guys a chance to surround him.
The punter (Brian Barker?) sailed a mile high beauty.
Milne was there, among others.

He contributed to the win with a great play, but when you build a 27 point lead on the greatest show on turf, there are many plays that contributed to that win. Its ridiculous to point to one fumble recovery and say thats why we won. But some will try.

If we hadn\'t scored our last TD we may also have lost. You could just as easily point to that being the game winner, since it provided the points necessary to win. Or even our 1st TD. Without our 1st TD we lose.

Milne made a great play that I will remember for a long long time. But it didn\'t win it for us. I guess everyone just assumes the Rams would have marched down the field and scored again. Is that a given? No. Sammy may have picked one off. He did have a knack for that.

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Old 12-28-2004, 02:46 PM   #33
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I can\'t continue. You brought up Sammy, a player not good enough for Haslett cause of his lack of \"speed\" yet he leads all NFL safeties in INTs the last 4 years. I can\'t form words to express the horror of the re-opening of that wound.

But I will agree that many plays led to the win, and Milne\'s was one of them.
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Old 12-28-2004, 02:47 PM   #34
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Why do you come here?

I admit that I post more during the season when the team is losing rather than winning. It\'s probably because I am pleased that they are getting the job done after wins. However, I think this board goes bizerk after losses becuase of human nature. We tend to want to criticize things that we think could be done better. Plus, we want to tell people about it more so when we\'re upset about it than when we are happy. Thus, people come on here after losses and vent.

As for myself, I come to this site almost daily - win or lose - I just post more after a loss. But, I tend to post more in the offseason because that is a time of exploring options and giving opinions on those options. I guess I find that more interesting to talk about than wins or losses even though the offseason is amazingly boring.
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Old 12-29-2004, 09:47 AM   #35
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I\'m not sure what I\'m stepping into here ,but........

Danno --

I think you know as well as I what goes on. Some folks have their mind made up that certain players and coaches are the problem. Because of that they don\'t like to be proven wrong.

You remember some folks defending Kyle Turley and bashing Haz because he shipped him off. Well.... it seems Turley was threatening Martz life and got escorted off by security.

Turley is just one example of how some fans let their mouth overload their brain. They think they know exactly what\'s going on but the truth is they would be better off watching the games and let the coaches coach and the GM do what they think is best for the team.

To hear some fans, you\'d think they had run an NFL team before.

One last thing... I\'m not talking to everyone here, but you know who you are..... Danno is exactly right.... When we win the bash-crew goes MIA and resurface when it fits into what they are preaching...

Lastly.... It took me a while but I like the folks who criticize everything. It makes things interesting. As long as it\'s done in a civil manner.... Take WhoDat for example. He likes to criticize and he strongly believes what he\'s saying. But he does it civil.... At least with me... You just have to fight fire with fire...

Take it from me... This is a great place to agree and disagree... But if you takes things personal it can get out of hand...

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Old 12-29-2004, 10:07 AM   #36
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I\'m not sure what I\'m stepping into here ,but........

Danno --

I think you know as well as I what goes on. Some folks have their mind made up that certain players and coaches are the problem. Because of that they don\'t like to be proven wrong.
I am going to have to use this as a classic example of how things work both ways, and how one side is as guilty as the other.

Here\'s the classic \"they are wrong and I am right\" post disguised in a \"it\'s not me\" statement. It\'s \"those people\"...

...just as much as \"some people\" have made up their minds that certain players and coaches are \"the problem\", \"some other people\" have made their minds that certain coaches and players are beyond reproach.

... and I\'ll add, no one \"likes\" to be proven wrong... some people are more gracious than others when proven wrong, but that doesn\'t mean they \"like\" it. I think posters, specially the ones who have been here the longest, to recognize when acrtual debate has been exhausted and take the high road, as to not encourage such behavior. And I am not talking about the random sarcasm or friendly ribbing...


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Old 12-29-2004, 10:32 AM   #37
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Another strong post Tobias. It appears to be that if you disagree with someone else\'s opinion, you are trying to prove them wrong and that brings with it a line drawn between two sides. The challenge is to be able to disagree with respect towrds the other person\'s opinion. But there are some who are of the idea that they have fought their battles here so \"their side\" is right and if you disagree you have an agenda. The problem comes in exactly as you said:

...just as much as \"some people\" have made up their minds that certain players and coaches are \"the problem\", \"some other people\" have made their minds that certain coaches and players are beyond reproach
This seems to be the biggest bone around here. Everyone has people they want to point the finger at, no matter what the stats say or the wins and losses say. No matter if player A is bad, it\'s not his fault. No matter if coach B has sunk us the last 4 years, we have a mediocre shot at being a mediocre team in the mediocre NFC making the mediocre NFC playoffs, so he must be getting better. No matter if player B is too dumb to have the full confidence of the coaches, other units are playing over their heads so we can win so this player has to be good too. It\'s the basis for most arguments on here. I don\'t consider myself right or wrong, I consider myself to have an opinion that I back up with fact and what I see with my own two eyes. If someone shows me something different, great. But blind allegiances to players and coaches not pulling their weight will keep us from ever taking the next big step.
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Old 12-29-2004, 10:36 AM   #38
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Why do you come here?

Hey, everyone is entitled to their opinions !!

I\'m a Saints fan. I\'ve had my mind made up that Haslett needed to be fired. But, you know what.. I\'m not so sure anymore.

I\'ve heard folks say McNabb wasn\'t an accurate passer before. But seems like he\'s been pretty damn accurate this year. Some folks were wrong... Go figure, huh?

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Old 12-29-2004, 10:54 AM   #39
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I\'ve heard folks say McNabb wasn\'t an accurate passer before. But seems like he\'s been pretty damn accurate this year. Some folks were wrong... Go figure, huh?
Hey Gumbo, maybe you heard of this guy Owens? No? Well let me tell you, pro bowl receiver. Huge playmaker. Eagles wide receivers had 2 tds all this year, outside of this Owens fella. He has 14. Last year Eagles receivers had 5 tds all year, this Owens fella had 9 tds and 1100 yards for a terrible San Fran team. I think he might be pretty good.

Also, let me tell you bout this Brooks fella. 78 passer rating. Has a pro bowl receiver AND running back. Not smart enough for the coaches to allow him to call audibles. Throws red zone INTs on 1-3 step drops with no pressure. Now since some may be \"wrong\" about him, do you think the Eagles will trade McNabb straight up for him? They both have pro bowl receivers, maybe Andy Reid will bite. No?
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Old 12-29-2004, 11:14 AM   #40
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Also, let me tell you bout this Brooks fella. 78 passer rating. Has a pro bowl receiver AND running back.
saintswhodi--

You, my friend, are pushing something I ain\'t buying. And believe me when I tell you I know what you want to convinence people of.

First, who\'s this probowl runningback you speak of? Deuce? That was last year, fella... Deuce hasn\'t done much at all this year. But, I don\'t blame Deuce like some folks blame Brooks.

I actually have 2 good eyes and I put them to use every game. And .... this is important here.... THIS IS A TEAM GAME. It ain\'t tennis...

You want to bash Haz and Brooks. Go right ahead. Doesn\'t bother me. I\'m more interested in this little thing we\'re involved in called a playoff run.

I\'m worried about our O-line and our defense. Those 2 things are what has cost us more games than anything. Disagree?


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