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this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Gator -- You are using injuries as an excuse for the Panthers? You? C\'mon man?! The guy who told me 1000 times that injuries were no excuse. I guess that only applies to the Saints. Hmm. Nick Goins is averaging ...

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Old 12-29-2004, 05:59 PM   #11
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Gator --

You are using injuries as an excuse for the Panthers? You? C\'mon man?! The guy who told me 1000 times that injuries were no excuse. I guess that only applies to the Saints. Hmm.

Nick Goins is averaging over 100 yards per game. And that, my friend, is all that matters. What difference does it make what round he was drafted in? I believe Tom Brady was drafted in the 6th round. And??

Our Saints have underachieved for most of the season. Especially Deuce. That\'s right, D-E-U-C-E !!!! That was the guy who was suppose to carry the offense. Well, our 0-line F\'d that up. They also can\'t pass block at all.

Then we our defense gave up more yards than any defense over the past 25-years.

My expectations haven\'t been met. But, it aint over with yet. We\'ll see....

Good to hear from ya Gator.
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Old 12-29-2004, 06:24 PM   #12
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I don\'t care what anyone says, but when a team has as many injuries to key starters at the skill positions or on defense, there is going to be a struggle to win games. The Panthers lose their starting tailback, their back-up tailback (who could be a starter anywhere), and their #1 wide receiver. A couple of losses on defense with Kris Jenkins for the season and not having Dan Morgan for several games is no help either. A make-shift offensive line due to retirements, players leaving via free agency, or injury all contribute to a 1-7 start.

On the flip side to this, when you have a bunch of back-ups or rookies playing, one of two things will happen. They will improve and show they are worthy of playing time, or they will show that they are no more than back-ups. John Fox has gotten his players to play above and beyond expectations on their run for the playoffs. Mushin Muhammed really stepped up to have an unbelievable season. Keary Colbert has played very well as a rookie. The offensive line improved week to week to allow the likes of Brad Hoover and Nick Goings to have career seasons. Julius Peppers has been doing nothing but making plays on defense, and their defense leads the NFC (or maybe the entire NFL), in total interceptions. Things have definitely seemed to be going their way.

However, all good things must come to an end. With the strength of the Saints defense the last few weeks, the gradual improvement and utilization of Deuce in the offense, Brooks coming through in the clutch (see Tampa Bay), and the exceptional play of the special teams, I predict the Saints to take a victory (I can\'t believe I\'m saying this) in Carolina.

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Old 12-29-2004, 08:27 PM   #13
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Sup D?
Please post more.
We could use a few more realists around here.
Injuries do matter and I take my hats off to the Panthers. They sucked it up and are now playing like champions.
Of course I hope they play like crap Sunday.
I\'ll take a gift win anyday.
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Old 12-29-2004, 08:38 PM   #14
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Gator--

Well, ok then, lets rock-n-roll.

You give the Panthers a free ride because of their injuries but the fact is they only have about 3 STARTERS on I.R. The rest are mainly backups.

Heck, Mel Mitchel was lost in preseason and Darren Howard hardly played last year. We had more starters out on defense last year than what the Panthers have this year.

Last year half of our defense was out for the majority of the season. Darren Howard hardly played the whole year. Along with many more.

Honesty? You want to talk about honest? Honesty?!

You honestly hold the Saints to a different standard than other teams. I said last yeat the Saints were hurt because of injuries.

And the Panthers were hurt this year because of injuries. I give them credit for that. But we won as many games last year as the Panthers have this year with just as many injuries. You want to dispute that?

Give me the truth Gator. How many starters have the Panthers lost this year. Tell me and then let\'s talk... Okay>?
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Old 12-29-2004, 08:49 PM   #15
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I got no problem with it. Halo might, but if you don\'t make it personal like ya\'ll have been know to do, :thumbup: it\'s ok by me.
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Old 12-29-2004, 09:07 PM   #16
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And to think, I actually missed these discussions...LMAO!!

Let\'s cut to the chase, Gator.

Fact: The Saints lost Darren Howard in the 1st game.
Fact: The Saints lost Mel Mitchell (starter) in preseason.

That\'s 2 starters out right there.

Fact: Dale Carter ( Injured most of the season)
Fact: Joe Horn ( Played injured for many games and it affected his play greatly.

I could go on and on but it makes no difference to you.

If you apply your logic fairly to both teams then you\'d see what I\'m talking about.

But that\'s not your game, Gator. Your game is to do EVERYthing in your power to apply a different set of rules to the Saints.

A three legged mule is a three legged mule. They just don\'t have the same gittyup as a 4 legged mule. Get it?

Our 3-legged mule won 8 games last year. How many games has the Panthers 3-legged mule won this year.

Gittyup Gator!!
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Old 12-29-2004, 09:17 PM   #17
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Gator...

I said STARTERS. Not bench warmers.

Really the only impact players the Panthers have out are

Steve Smith, Jenkins, and Davis.

Remember when you pointed to the Patriots last year and all their injuries? You said they won the super bowl and that was NUFF SAID.

NUFF SAID.... :P

It\'s a bitter pill to be sure. Just hold your nose and swallow quickly.
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Old 12-29-2004, 09:22 PM   #18
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I was going to post the list of players Carolina had on IR, but Gator beat me to it. Way to be on the ball, bro.

13 players on IR is a ton whether they are starters, 2nd string, or practice squad. That\'s a lot of adversity to overcome. The Saints last year didn\'t lose Howard for the entire season. Mitchell was lost, but he was only the projected starter and Bellamy went on to have a pretty darn good year because he was playing his true position, even though he was one of the few bright spots. It\'s correct to say that Horn played injured for most of the season last year and it cut his production, but he did play. The Panthers didn\'t have that luxury with Steve Smith, Stephen Davis, or DeShaun Foster. Their seasons ended before they really began.

I guess what I\'m trying to say is that the Saints last year weren\'t good at 8-8 and had far less injuries than the Panthers have had this year. The fact that the Panthers have won 7 games this year with all those injuries just astounds me.

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Old 12-29-2004, 09:42 PM   #19
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Gator --

This is what I know.

Last year you said injuries were no excuse for a teams losing. You pointed to the Patriots and said they won the super bowl despite their injuries. Did you forget that? Well, you don\'t get off the hook that easy, Gator.

Own up to your statements.

How did the Pats do it? They led the league in injuries. And you reminded me of that SO many times. Is it coming back to you yet? KNOCK KNOCK!!

Jarring your memory yet?

The Pats didn\'t use injuries as an excuse. The Panthers just suck and it because of a lack of leadership. Tom Brady is a winner and Jake is a loser...
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Old 12-29-2004, 10:13 PM   #20
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I\'m sorry to hear you have the flu, Gator.

Look, either injuries responsible for a teams wins and losses or they are not.

You can\'t have it both ways. If key players go down it hurts their teams no matter when they happen. If they are losing when they happen they can\'t bulid monmentum to get back on a winning track. They just keep losing. Who\'s to say we could have turned it around last year if we didn\'t have so many injuries?

Hell, maybe our injuries didn\'t cost us any games. It\'s impossible to know for sure because it can\'t be proven. However, that\'s a big reach.





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