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Observations on the Panthers. Past and Present.

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Last year the Panther defense got most of the credit for their success. And rightly so. However, I t hink the offense was underrated by many. Stephen Davis was one of the top backs in the league and make the ...

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Old 12-29-2004, 09:34 PM   #1
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Observations on the Panthers. Past and Present.

Last year the Panther defense got most of the credit for their success. And rightly so.

However, I t hink the offense was underrated by many.

Stephen Davis was one of the top backs in the league and make the probowl.

Steve Smith was as good as just about any receiver in the league.

The O-line was dominate.

Here's the funny thing...

No one gave the Panthers other receiver the respect he deserved. Musin Muhammad had caught 100 passes in 2 concutive seasons.

Jake Delhomme had a better receiving corp than the Saints. Actually just about everything was better for Jake on offense when compared to the Saints.

This year Steve Smith is gone and Stephen Davis. Smith really hurts but they still have a back who is putting up probowl type numbers in Goings.

And Muhommad is putting up Randy Moss type numbers now that Jake had finally figured out what he has.

Also, the O-line is playing excellente for the Panthers.

On defense, Peppers is their version of Mike Vick on defense. He's so dominate that he makes everyone else on defense better. Especially the secondary. They lead the league in INTs.

The one are that is hurting is the Panthers' special teams.

These injuries with the Panthers aren't affecting their team that much because they built their team's strength on the offensive and defensive lines.

By have dominate offensive and defensive lines it allows their skill players to excel.

That -my friend -is and old school approach to buillding a solid team.

The Saints are much more talented at most of the skilled positions but .... the problem is our offensive and defesive lines haven't allowed those skilled position players to excell.

Game are won and lost in the trenchs. At least that's what Vince Lombardi used to say...

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Old 12-29-2004, 09:56 PM   #2
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Observations on the Panthers. Past and Present.

I would pose that their special teams aren\'t that bad. Do they miss Smith and Smart? Certainly. But they have a veteran kicker, the league\'s strongest punter, and their coverage guys play hard. That\'s not too shabby, and fairly decent compensation for losing your big play return guys to injury.
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Old 12-29-2004, 09:58 PM   #3
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Observations on the Panthers. Past and Present.

What part of -- I hate Jake Delhomme and the Panthers --- don\'t you understand?

The only thing different from me and the Brooks\' bashers is I actually admit I hate Jake.

I never said the Panthers don\'t have skilled guys. Musin Muhommad is a dominate receiver.

But their O-line is making Goings look like a probowl runningback. He has 4 straight games in which he\'s rushed for over 100 yards. Now.. maybe Goings is more talented than he\'s given credit for. Maybe he could do that on any team. I don\'t know. What I do know is the Panthers running game is in great shape with goings and it\'s not hurthing their offesne.

Our running game is the one that\'s hurting our team. It\'s been killing us as a matter of fact.

The Panthers deserve credit for winning 7-games. No more, no less.

Now you can hug up to them and get all cozy, but not me.

All I want to do is hang an azzwhippin\' on them and send \'em to their coach so they can watch us in the playoffs.
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Old 12-29-2004, 10:17 PM   #4
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Observations on the Panthers. Past and Present.

Our running game HAS killed us, but the recent surge in attempts per game is a big reason for our recent success. Attempts.

Anyway, Gumbo, I have a question. Who does Mushin remind you of? I\'m thinking he\'s playing this year much like Art Monk used to- clutch and consistent down the field.

To me, the strength of that offense is Dan Henning, the offensive coordinator. The way they use tight ends and full backs is brilliant: the illusion of balance to create imbalance; the illusion of imbalance to create balance. All of which leads to creative blocking in the run game and excellent protection for Delhomme. Goings is not good. He seldom gets more than the hole allows. Lucky for the Panthers, that\'s enough to move the chains. We\'d be in trouble if they had a back with vision and a burst.

Regardless, it\'s a testament to Henning, I\'m jealous, and wish we had him, because Deuce would be league MVP in that scheme getting that many attempts per game.

The ultimate moral is this: if the Saints are willing to do what it takes (because that absolutely CAN, it\'s a matter of WILL) to beat the Panthers, then they\'ll likely discover the confidence they need to slay a few dragons in the playoffs.

What\'s cool is, if we get in, AND advance beyond the Wildcard game, we get to go to Philly, who has primed themselves for a classic choke job by quitting too soon on their season. After that it\'s anything goes, but I like our chances from there.

As for hating the Panthers, I just can\'t do it, and I have two words as to why: Sam Mills. He\'s one of my all time favorite Saints, he should be in the F\'n Hall of Fame, and as long as he\'s a Panther I\'ll look on them kindly.

You can hate Delhomme if you want to, but he\'s a \"poor man\'s\" Brett Favre, and you can\'t deny he commands respect with his toughness and competitiveness. That\'s not to say I\'d take him over Brooks, as Delhomme would be twice as bad if he\'d had to cope with the absence of protection AB has had this year. Hence my appreciation for Henning. By scheme he gives his quarterback time, and that\'s all AB needs, the film proves it.

Peace and blessings, be well.

It\'s not a question of whether or not the Saints will win the Super Bowl this year. It\'s a question of which Saint will be the MVP of the game.

What do you mean I\'m not supposed to snort the granola?
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Old 12-29-2004, 10:26 PM   #5
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Observations on the Panthers. Past and Present.

Ken --

First let me give you mad props for that post. Very good.

Now, Mushin is just a beast. He\'s catching any and every thing thrown his way. I don\'t know who he reminds me of. He\'s just off the hook this year.

Very good observations on Henning\'s scheme. It\'s solid but yet simple.

It\'s hard to key on one area of the offense. You always have to respect the run. And I mean on every down. But, you also have to respect the passing game. They keep the play calling balanced no matter if it\'s working or not.

That is.... as long as the score is close.

If we could jump out to a big lead early I think we could handle up on that offense.
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Old 12-30-2004, 09:11 AM   #6
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Observations on the Panthers. Past and Present.

I LOVE Brooks, or as I like to call him -- Trade Bait.
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Old 12-30-2004, 09:47 AM   #7
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Observations on the Panthers. Past and Present.

Ok, enough lauding Carolina\'s offensive line and knocking ours. And this is not a Jake-AB thing, it is an our line verses their line thing. You wanna know why it seems Carolina has more time to throw in the passing game,

But coach John Fox has a formula for winning. He runs the ball and keeps extra blockers in on passing plays to protect quarterback Jake Delhomme.
Taken from ESPN:http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/column...ten/2004week17

So if our line is so terrible, why don\'t we keep extra blockers in to give our qb more time to throw? Could this fall on coaching and play-calling? We seem to have run the ball pretty well if Deuce can be headed toward 1000 playing injured and Stecker can go over 100 yards as a back-up in a game. So maybe the \"send as many people as you can out to catch passes\" strategy we are using isn\'t working. And since Boo can\'t block(or catch much this year), maybe that is hurting our line more than them simply being bad. Just a thought. Although Riley is horrendous. Definitely need to replace him.
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Old 12-31-2004, 05:01 AM   #8
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Observations on the Panthers. Past and Present.

Now, Mushin is just a beast. He\'s catching any and every thing thrown his way. I don\'t know who he reminds me of. He\'s just off the hook this year.
Seems to me that Delhomme/Muhammed is a QB/WR combo that suits both players\' talents and styles. Jake has a reputation - and a sometimes spotty completion percentage - for being reckless in throwing the ball into coverage regardless of the consequences. This leads some to view him as \"lucky,\" and it sometimes appears that way, but Muhammed has alot to do with it. Muhsin\'s never been feared for his speed, but he gets downfield well enough and is simply too tall for many DB\'s to cover. In a jump ball situation (often created, probably intentionally, by Jake), Mo\'s coming down with the catch a considerable amount of the time.

The Art Monk comparison is validated when one considers that Muhammed steps it up even further in clutch time. This is nothing new, as he most often became Jake\'s favorite target when the marbles were on the line last season (remember Mo in the playoffs and Super Bowl?). Sure, Steve Smith posted better receiving numbers last season, but much of his yardage was gained after the catch. In spite of his questionable speed, Muhammed manages to demand respect as a deep threat. In this regard, he could also be compared to Marcus Robinson.

It\'s a simple fact - if Jake keeps throwing them high, Mo\'s gonna catch a considerable number of them. This scares me, as our secondary (especially Fred Thomas) has already proven themselves troubled by tall WR\'s (the Minnesota game was painful to watch).
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