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Is this Defense worse than the 2012 team?

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; According to ESPN's formula it is: "Believe it or not, according to ESPN Stats and Informationís defensive efficiency formula, the Saints are even worse this season than they were in 2012 -- when they set the NFL record for yards ...

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Old 11-28-2014, 09:27 AM   #1
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Is this Defense worse than the 2012 team?

According to ESPN's formula it is:

"Believe it or not, according to ESPN Stats and Informationís defensive efficiency formula, the Saints are even worse this season than they were in 2012 -- when they set the NFL record for yards allowed in a season. That year, they averaged minus-7.0 "expected points" per game. This year itís minus-8.6, the worst in the league."

Rob Ryan getting love from players, but not getting results - New Orleans Saints Blog - ESPN

The article overall is about the players taking all the blame and Rob Ryan not being the problem. That may be true, but I can tell you our position coaches still need to go and Ryan needs to bring his own guys in.
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Old 11-28-2014, 09:45 AM   #2
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Re: Is this Defense worse than the 2012 team?

the only reason i would consider putting these two defenses together would be the coaching. Spags did not gut the team as deep and did add some good players. so Spags was worse.

Even with all the moves and the drop in play across the board I still think we are a few pieces away from plugging most of the holes.

the issue i have is Rob has not shown the talent evaluation so far to get the job done. he appears to be blind to the big picture and is to busy doing micro management to see he is driving the group into the dirt. this is a replay of dallas all over again.

Notice how Drew is playing more and more like Tony Romo did? QB having no faith in their defense and feels he has to score makes bone head mistakes. QB need that safety blanket. As we all know the QB is usually the most sensitive player on the field.

In my opinion Rob is one of the direct cause of Drew drop in quality of play. He maybe the main reason

The offense feels it has do it all.

nope i do not believe that a is stretch of the imagination by any means.

"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins

Last edited by hagan714; 11-28-2014 at 09:49 AM..
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Old 11-28-2014, 11:52 AM   #3
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Re: Is this Defense worse than the 2012 team?

Originally Posted by hagan714 View Post
the only reason i would consider putting these two defenses together would be the coaching. Spags did not gut the team as deep and did add some good players. so Spags was worse.

Even with all the moves and the drop in play across the board I still think we are a few pieces away from plugging most of the holes.

the issue i have is Rob has not shown the talent evaluation so far to get the job done. he appears to be blind to the big picture and is to busy doing micro management to see he is driving the group into the dirt. this is a replay of dallas all over again.

Notice how Drew is playing more and more like Tony Romo did? QB having no faith in their defense and feels he has to score makes bone head mistakes. QB need that safety blanket. As we all know the QB is usually the most sensitive player on the field.

In my opinion Rob is one of the direct cause of Drew drop in quality of play. He maybe the main reason

The offense feels it has do it all.

nope i do not believe that a is stretch of the imagination by any means.
Agree totally. The position coaches have to be changed. RR is not without blame though. He has shown the unwillingness to play to our strengths. He continues to call zone plays when we obviously dont have the skill sets to. He has shown that he cannot adjust his game plan and sticks to it regardless of how bad its working. That, in my mind, is how we resemble 2012. The biggest problem with spags was his scheme. He refused to change. So far it seems, RR is doing the same thing.
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Old 11-28-2014, 12:54 PM   #4
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Re: Is this Defense worse than the 2012 team?

No. That 2012 defense was pretty damn bad
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Old 11-28-2014, 01:01 PM   #5
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Re: Is this Defense worse than the 2012 team?

"Not ready for prime time"

That's how I would characterize this defense.

A mix of vets, touted picks, signings, UDFAs. And they're not ready to step up
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Old 11-28-2014, 02:03 PM   #6
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Re: Is this Defense worse than the 2012 team?

2012 3rd down conversions against us - 38.5 %
2014 3rd down conversions against us - 47.9 %

Since 2006, only San Diego in 2011 has been worse.
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Old 11-28-2014, 02:50 PM   #7
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Re: Is this Defense worse than the 2012 team?

Originally Posted by Danno View Post
2012 3rd down conversions against us - 38.5 %
2014 3rd down conversions against us - 47.9 %

Since 2006, only San Diego in 2011 has been worse.

The only defensive stats that matter:

3rd down conversion rate.
Number of sacks.
Number of turnovers.

The 2014 Defense is bad/awful in all 3.
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Old 11-28-2014, 03:33 PM   #8
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Re: Is this Defense worse than the 2012 team?

I think the stats (particularly yards) may be a little bit different due to circumstances.... but to the naked eye, with that sense of inevitability that they cannot stop the other team more than once or twice a game (and usually that being due to the other team's drops/mistakes/miscues), I'd have to say....it doesn't really matter, for all intents and purposes they are essentially the same between 2012 and 2014. The feeling in the stands at the games is identical. The scoreboards at the end of the games are quite similar, probably worse this year historically, because of all the repeated collapses.

The lack of fear or respect from the other teams is quite telling. There's nobody on this defense that keeps the other team's coaches awake at night during the week, worrying about matchups or game planning for them or adjusting to them. Week after week, teams just come in against the Saints, set up their base offense, run their plays, and go to work. There's absolutely no risk or pushback. No playmakers. No turnovers. So bad that arguing over whether it's worse than 2012 is just guessing how many angels dancing on the head of a pin.
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Old 11-29-2014, 03:17 AM   #9
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Re: Is this Defense worse than the 2012 team?

NFL Stats:
Saints 2014 Defense ranked 27th
Saints 2014 Offense ranked 2nd
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Old 11-29-2014, 05:14 AM   #10
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Re: Is this Defense worse than the 2012 team?

Stats are can be turned to see any point of view

Basing the best offense off yards is pointless,points win games not yards. And twice in two home games we have come away from the goaline with nothing to show for it.We are 9th in the leage with 26.2 points per game. 25th on defense allowing 26.6 ppg.

One of the biggest stats is the defense has managed 11 takeaways,the offense has given the ball away 20 times.You dont win games loosing the turnover battle. Look at the top 6 teams in the turnover battle(packers,pats,seattle,kansas,arizona,denver) best teams in the lague dont turnover and create turnovers.
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