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The Decline and Fall of Paytonís Empire, or How the Culture of Gregg Williams Ruined the Saints

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; I don't know if its a decline and fall. I think we are having a down year. With a QB like Brees coaches like Payton will find a way to right the ship....

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Old 12-12-2014, 10:50 PM   #21
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Re: The Decline and Fall of Paytonís Empire, or How the Culture of Gregg Williams Ruined the Saints

I don't know if its a decline and fall. I think we are having a down year. With a QB like Brees coaches like Payton will find a way to right the ship.
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Old 12-12-2014, 11:31 PM   #22
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Re: The Decline and Fall of Paytonís Empire, or How the Culture of Gregg Williams Ruined the Saints

Split those hairs!!! is it 5 wins and 8 losses or 8 losses and 5 wins?
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Old 12-13-2014, 01:22 AM   #23
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Re: The Decline and Fall of Paytonís Empire, or How the Culture of Gregg Williams Ruined the Saints

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 View Post
Not so fast.

I seem to remember Williams's defense being sort of a one trick pony.

They couldn't stop Hasselbeck or Lynch in the playoffs - 41pts
That came down to one one play and Williams had the right the defense called. just count up the players that missed the tackles. more than enough fire power in the right spot at the right time. that is when you blame the players and credit the Beast.

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 View Post
They couldn't stop Alex Smith or Davis in the playoffs - 36pts
The Davis play i do put on Williams. Wrong CB and poor safety support. But that is why we drafted speedy Robinson. But earlier in the game he gave up a TD because he got lost in the second level as WR went into motion then reversed field and motion back to his original side. more than once Robinson made a few bone head moves like that. so not putting him on Davis at that point in the game i can understand. excellent play call by the niners and great play by Smith on seeing that match up and keeping the safety frozen.

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 View Post
The blitz became predictable and ineffective after the 2010 Superbowl.
look at the players we lost after the super bowl too. notice i did not go into his draft record at all? he did ok but he never could replace or upgrade that group.

I am still amazed that they were so good together. That is when the youth movement started up a bit for the defense so in many ways you were starting from scratch.

call it a fluke or whatever those defensive players the saints got together back in the beginning may not have been super stars or shut down types but they functioned well as a unit and had chemistry.

that is the point of this piece. he got more out of what he had to work with than any DC since. No way that unit should have gotten us to the super bowl. They did just enough. Believe me it was not all talent. It was all guts and smarts
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Old 12-13-2014, 01:45 AM   #24
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Re: The Decline and Fall of Paytonís Empire, or How the Culture of Gregg Williams Ruined the Saints

Williams gambled too much

The last 49 drive in the 2011 playoffs
All he needed to do was go prevent zone

They go man single coverge and dial up a blitz
Williams wants the 49ers to go down with shock and awe
and Vernon Davis smokes us

That could have easily been another Super bowl Champion
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Old 12-13-2014, 03:57 PM   #25
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Re: The Decline and Fall of Paytonís Empire, or How the Culture of Gregg Williams Ruined the Saints

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 View Post
Not so fast.

I seem to remember Williams's defense being sort of a one trick pony.

They couldn't stop Hasselbeck or Lynch in the playoffs - 41pts
They couldn't stop Alex Smith or Davis in the playoffs - 36pts

The blitz became predictable and ineffective after the 2010 Superbowl.
Not sure how they were ineffective when they were ranked 4th in the NFL...

Those were some of the least talented defenses the Saints have had in the last few decades, Williams deserves more credit then what you are giving him.
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Old 12-13-2014, 03:59 PM   #26
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Re: The Decline and Fall of Paytonís Empire, or How the Culture of Gregg Williams Ruined the Saints

Originally Posted by Audiotom View Post
Williams gambled too much

The last 49 drive in the 2011 playoffs
All he needed to do was go prevent zone

They go man single coverge and dial up a blitz
Williams wants the 49ers to go down with shock and awe
and Vernon Davis smokes us

That could have easily been another Super bowl Champion
Maybe the 49ers don't score so many points if our offense/special teams don't turn the ball over 5 times... lol
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Old 12-13-2014, 04:15 PM   #27
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Re: The Decline and Fall of Paytonís Empire, or How the Culture of Gregg Williams Ruined the Saints

Originally Posted by jeanpierre View Post
Actually, 'decline' suggests a gradual degrade in strength...
i.e. 'This thing is going down hill'

Whereas, 'fall' suggests a rapid, acute, punctuated degrade...
i.e. 'This thing just went off the cliff'
Yep
Unless you are Buzz Lightyear
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Old 12-14-2014, 09:42 AM   #28
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Re: The Decline and Fall of Paytonís Empire, or How the Culture of Gregg Williams Ruined the Saints

Originally Posted by hagan714 View Post
That came down to one one play and Williams had the right the defense called. just count up the players that missed the tackles. more than enough fire power in the right spot at the right time. that is when you blame the players and credit the Beast.



The Davis play i do put on Williams. Wrong CB and poor safety support. But that is why we drafted speedy Robinson. But earlier in the game he gave up a TD because he got lost in the second level as WR went into motion then reversed field and motion back to his original side. more than once Robinson made a few bone head moves like that. so not putting him on Davis at that point in the game i can understand. excellent play call by the niners and great play by Smith on seeing that match up and keeping the safety frozen.



look at the players we lost after the super bowl too. notice i did not go into his draft record at all? he did ok but he never could replace or upgrade that group.

I am still amazed that they were so good together. That is when the youth movement started up a bit for the defense so in many ways you were starting from scratch.

call it a fluke or whatever those defensive players the saints got together back in the beginning may not have been super stars or shut down types but they functioned well as a unit and had chemistry.

that is the point of this piece. he got more out of what he had to work with than any DC since. No way that unit should have gotten us to the super bowl. They did just enough. Believe me it was not all talent. It was all guts and smarts
Hasselbeck threw for 300yds and 4 tds. That's plain awful.

There wasn't a "Davis play" - he was open all day long.

Agree that he "did more with less" and that's a far cry from what RR has done with more.
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Old 12-14-2014, 09:44 AM   #29
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Re: The Decline and Fall of Paytonís Empire, or How the Culture of Gregg Williams Ruined the Saints

Originally Posted by Danno View Post
While true, the offense turned the ball over 5 times in the San Fran game. There isn't a defense in NFL history that can overcome that.
True dat.
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Old 12-14-2014, 01:35 PM   #30
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Re: The Decline and Fall of Paytonís Empire, or How the Culture of Gregg Williams Ruined the Saints

Originally Posted by Audiotom View Post
Williams gambled too much

The last 49 drive in the 2011 playoffs
All he needed to do was go prevent zone

They go man single coverge and dial up a blitz
Williams wants the 49ers to go down with shock and awe
and Vernon Davis smokes us

That could have easily been another Super bowl Champion
Its funny when you think of how much we all hate prevent when it turns up in the 4th quarter.

In other news, I never had problems with bounty gate. I can't recall a game in any code played where we didnt want to go out and hurt the opposition.
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