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Governor: Saints must pay more of Superdome renovation cost
1/10/2005, 1:58 p.m. CT By MARY FOSTER The Associated Press (AP)  The New Orleans Saints must pay for part of the cost of renovating the Superdome and agree to a reduction in the payments the state makes to the team, Gov. Kathleen Blanco said Monday. Outlining a proposal to renovate the Superdome and negotiate a new lease with the NFL, Blanco said the larger part of the financial burden must be assumed by the team, not the taxpayers. "The state is spending way too much and spending the taxpayers' money in the wrong way," Blanco said. The state and the team hope to work out a new, long-term deal that would keep the Saints in New Orleans. The current $186 million agreement with the team negotiated in 2001 by the administration of former Gov. Mike Foster runs through 2010, but the team can opt out after the 2005 season with no penalty. Under the current agreement, Louisiana is obligated to make annual payments ranging from $15 million to $23.5 million. The state has had a difficult time making the payments because the taxes used for revenue have not generated as much money as projected. Saints owner Tom Benson, who originally pushed for a new stadium, agreed last fall to a Superdome renovation, but wants continued payments and does not want to foot any of the bill for upgrading the stadium. Team officials did not return calls Monday for comment on Blanco's proposal. Renovations to the Superdome will provide the Saints with the opportunity to earn more money, Blanco said. The renovation would produce new suites, more seating in the lower levels, which would sell for more, more concessions and other measures. The estimated cost of the renovation is $168 million. Lawmakers who were briefed on the plan said last week it would require identifying between $10 million and $12 million in new funds. Blanco said, however, it was premature to begin looking for new taxes to pay for the deal. The key is reducing the payments to the Saints and having the team put up some money for the renovations, she said. "We're trying to put them on an appropriate businesslike basis where they can earn their way," Blanco said. The governor's proposal, which would run through 2025, also would include specific performance obligations, although she did not spell out what they would be, and eliminate the clauses that allow the Saints to get out of a deal early. Blanco said she would call NFL commissioner Paul Tagliabue about the proposal. Blanco said she believes the league and other owners would find Louisiana's offer reasonable and she hoped they would urge Benson to accept it. "If the Saints are not willing to accept the basic principle of our offer, then we expect them to prove to us with a credible and independent financial review, why the proposal doesn't work for them," Blanco said. Blanco said she would call Benson to discuss the proposal, but would not meet with him to negotiate until representatives had hammered out the main details. If an agreement can be reached, renovation of the Superdome would begin in January 2006. It don't sound good to me boys. [Edited on 10/1/2005 by JOESAM2002] |
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NO BRO IT DOESNT BUT U HAVE TO WAIT AS THEY BARGAIN BACK AND FORTH.I JUST POSTED THAT STORY ON ANOTHER POST THAT IS THE LATEST THEN HUH?
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Sounds like she told the Saints to shove it up the ole Moss-hole. :mad:
I especially like the part where she comments she\'s gonna call Tagliabue. Yea, call the guy who wants them to move to Los Angeles, good idea Blanco. Tags-\"Yea Kathy, I\'d tell Benson to shove it up his azzz, yea thats it Kat, you go girl!\" Step 2 of the relocation process for the Los Angeles Saints is right on track. Louisina is gonna get exactly what they asked for electing this two-faced democrat. Well, we at least we won\'t have to worry about who our coach is. At least we have the Hornets! :( |
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The Saints and Tom Benson were blackmailing the state, plain and simple. This is just a counteroffer. So anyone who thinks she should just pony up agrees in tax hikes to pay Mr. Benson to have his mediocre team around? So the state pays for renovations, new facilities, and directly to Benson\'s pocket until 2020? Really? No way that flies in any other city. Now the state has no right to claim no money with the slush fund they have for pet projects, but let\'s be real. Tom feels he has the state over the barrel, and wants to drain everything they have. I agree with her, if the point of renovation is to generate more revenue, why the hell should the state have to keep paying? Dallas Cowboys just voted for a new stadium in arlington. Guess who is paying? Taxpayers. They VOTED FOR a tax for it. How many Louisianians have ever voted for a tax increase of any kind?
[Edited on 10/1/2005 by saintswhodi] |
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no i agree to some extent saintswhodi. my only problem is how many programs are worth cutting that you could do to keep the saints around. but if that is true and that money the state pays to the saints go\'s to bensons pocket then no they shouldnt pay anymore.
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What worries me is the fact that Blanco\'s proposals haven\'t changed much at all since the first one was made...I really don\'t think she\'s bluffing at all..it\'s not a tactic..She put out those offers up..and I don\'t see her bending much, if any...And,,I don\'t see Benson bending..because he knows good and well he has a backdoor..with major revenue to be had either way he chooses to go...not to mention the fact Benson has been silent thus far, as far as hiring and firing go...It\'s not looking good..not if you want the Saints to stay in New Orleans that is..
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that really is bad news
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The money the state pays to \"the Team\" is to offset \"supposed\"(they refuse to open the books) revenue defecits the team was facing staying in New Orleans, even though the dome had like 30 something consec sell-outs. That was a bad deal by the last governor but he was leaving so what does he care. It\'s another administration\'s mess. SO what Benson is asking for is for the state to build the extra facilities he proposed outside of renovating the dome, and renovate the dome at no cost to him. Once the renovations are complete and extra revenue is being generated, he STILL wants the state to continue to line his pocket just for him being here. Uh-uh. No way. that\'s aload of crap. One or the other buddy. Either you help pay for the renos on the dome and the state continues to pay you a portion of the deal until 2020, or the state pays for all of it and you don\'t get another dime except for what your team generates. sounds fair to me.
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I don\'t think this is going bad, actually I see this on track.
Everyone needs to keep this into perspective, its just a buisness negociation. Offer this and counter offer that... I don\'t want to get really to invovled in all this becasue one thing The Saints won\'t be going to LA... The NFL doesn\'t want Benson in LA they want a different owner and Benson isn\'t going to put his team on the market. What I think is stupid is that the State wants the Saints to pay for renovations but Benson doesn\'t own the Dome... I don\'t have a problem with the state renovating the Dome 100 percent. I don\'t have a problem with the state building facilites to help make the team better overall. I do have a problem with having to pay him to keep the Saints there. I think they are getting closer and closer to an agreement. State renovates, builds a few things, maybe... and cut back on the payments to Benson to help state with renovations ect. |
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I don\'t care if it costs us the Saints or not...end the payments to Benson NOW. If he has a problem with only bringing in 5 million a year without the blackmail payments then he should sell or move. Guess what? He is not going to make more money in L.A. unless the NFL starts giving this franchise the type of breaks that other franchises get (see RAMS). If the Saints perform the same way they have for the last 37 years in L.A., less fans will be there than currently attend Saints games.
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I agree Scotty. Good point. Hoenstly, as I said in another thread, I\'m undecided on this, but the State needs to stand up to Benson that\'s for sure. Would you take his word for it? If he said he wouldn\'t show you his books would you believe he was losing money? I wouldn\'t.
Plus - someone please show me, with numbers, how this team pays more than $15 million to that state in a year. |
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What disturbs me most about this latest development is that the proposal should have been made in private to Mr. Benson and his negotiation team.
As a professional negotiator, when my \"partner\" submits his terms to a third party (the press here) before he appraches me with the terms, it sends a signal that there is no room for negotiation. It is actually an insult to my organization. I would have thought that this \"governor\" was smarter and more politically astute than this. On two fronts, I believe that the Saints being in New Orleans is economically beneficial. #1, The organization creates a multiplier effect on the money washed through the system of approximately 4 times (I could be understating this a bit, but it is less than the gross national multiplier of 5.7 times) the visible value. #2, having NEW ORLEANS associated with the most prestigious sports and marketing organization in the world has unfathomable value in a city that relies so heavily on its image as a first class destination - for 9 months out of the year, the city is mentioned numerous times in every sports page all over the world. |
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one good thing is Tom is building a new Mercedes dealership in N.O. , dont think he is going anywhere
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The true questions is: Can we as state taxpayers afford to lose yet another company who provides tax dollars to fund programs throughout the state? Let\'s say we agree to pay more taxes (however) to keep the Saints here and renovate the Dome. OUTCOME: Pay More / Keep Saints. Now let\'s say that Blanco says no deal and the Saints leave. Who do you think is going to supplement the tax burden that the Saints revenue stream used to supply? OUTCOME: Pay More / Lose Saints. Although I think that Blanco should negotiate, the choice is obvious for me. The rest of the state thinks that N.O. is being greedy and this and that, but I would love to ask those small cities a question: Where do you think the money is going to come from to supplement the community programs and state employee salaries / pay raises when we have budget cuts b/c we can\'t figure out how to the millions in tax reveune that the Saints will be dropping in California?
--chew on this [Edited on 11/1/2005 by JOESAM2002] |
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I myself do not live in Louisiana...however..it is common knowledge that the state is just plain old dirt poor...asking the impoverished citizens to give even more for what , in thier eyes, is a wasted effort..(because the Saints have never had anywhere near the success of any team in any sport)...is just an excersize in futility...
This team , like it or not, is one of...if not the worst team in franchise for any sport...ever...and asking people to give more for a loosing effort is just senseless.. If Benson doesn\'t give in..and show his commitment to the game..and the fans..we will no longer have our most beloved team... It would be hilarious if San Diego,(or another team), decided to move tommorrow, and Benson had no safety net under his fat A**..we would see a much more generous owner then...and a much more stingy govenor Until a team is actually moved..and it\'s official..Benson better watch his step... |
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I just don\'t understand. How come the state of Louisiana dollars is worth less than most state cuz of .10 up to .14 taxes in other areas and our state look less up to date than other state? I see roads and interstates through out the state with alot of pot holes or badly patch work, more section 8 houses being built than single family homes , telephone lines, I am not going to talk bout schools. Where is the money going?
Before I agree with another raise in taxes, I need to see some improvements, instead of being stuck in the 80\'s |
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Well as a taxpayer, I would rather see my money go to keep the Saints in New Orleans rather than see that money spent on welfare, food stamps, housing projects, for someone with no job to send their 6 kids to public school or whatever other program this tax and spend liberal democratic has in her agenda. No question!!
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vulture i think that is a good point. i also wonder why this country is headed more towards communism.
but if the money is to line the pockets of benson well he has enough. if it is being spent on the team then thats ok. |
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XAN -
State is government, nothing they do at that level is \'private\'. Its all public record, if they did file something private then all anyone has to do is file a Freedom of Information act. |
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I think that we\'re getting off of the point here. The Saints DO generate tax revenue for the state. The players and staff all have to pay state taxes, and when you consider what the cost of that roster is, that\'s alot of tax dollars. Also, when you consider the taxes that are associated with 8 home games a year, and 60-some thousand people attending the game and they are buying from vendors, apparrel, so on and so forth. The problem is most of us, including myself, don\'t truly understand economics, and even if we do, the books aren\'t open on the Saints and we don\'t have everyday access to the state\'s numbers. The record of the team really isn\'t the issue that needs to be talked about here as much as the effect on the Louisiana economy. And I have to agree with you whodi, folks in Louisiana WILL NOT vote for a tax increase. History says that won\'t happen.
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I think Blanco makes some good points -- Benson should open up his books -- that way BBlanco and the state could really see the shape the Saints are in. Keeping the Saints means more than just tax dollars or super bowl revenue. They are part of the community. But I will say this -- iof we lose the Saints I better see some real improvement in the roads, education etc. I somehow have to think if Jindal was in office we would keep the Saints and see improvement in our quality of life
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Here\'s what I don\'t get.
The league issued 15 year stadium loans to Denver, Philly and New England which would max out at 150 million dollars (roughly half the cost of the stadium) to be paid back by ticket sales revenue that would have ordinarily gone to the visiting team. In New England\'s case, the state only spent 70 million for infrastructure related to the statdium site. That only left Bob Kraft to come up with something like 150 million. So with the Saints, I don\'t know where the problem is. 1. Is the league holding back on offering similar stadium loans to the Saints that would effectively cover half of the cost of a new stadium? OR 2. Is Benson holding back on ponying up the other half of the money required to build? BECAUSE 3. Given what they\'ve already spent and are already pledged to spend, I can\'t see why the state would hold back a one time expense of building roads, sewer, water and power out to a stadium site. As Louisiana doesn\'t have a great tax base anyway and since the Saints don\'t clearly benefit all the folks in Louisiana, I\'m having a very difficult time seeing the state as the bad guy here. It seems more likely to me that the NFL isn\'t offering us the same loan deal they\'ve offered other teams or Benson isn\'t willing to try and come up with just half of the cost. Since money isn\'t a problem for any number of other cities, I\'m not sure why renovating the dome is the best use of money anyway. And for sure, I don\'t see where it\'s the state\'s responsibility to build a state of the art facility for a private business. Infrastructure, sure. Tax incentives, sure. Loans, sure. The state footing the bill, not so much. |
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Hey Blanco: Bottom Line: Keep the Saints or Lose your Job --chew on this |
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The real problem we face is..the NFL and it\'s owners , more importantly, want to get more shared revenue generated..that is why they voted out bringing in an expansion team..they want to take the weakest team financially, and make them produce more..in turn..creating more cash without having an extra mouth to feed...and unforunately...when you look at the teams in question, New Orleans, Indianapolis, San Diego, and Minnesota , you begin to see who is the weakest link, and ultimately..the owners just want more money..so does the NFL...It all kind of points to us...I\'m not sure if Blanco realizes this, or of she even cares,..but,..It\'s isn\'t her decision alone...we just have to hope something happens right now..because, mark my words...if the deal isn\'t done by the start of the new season..we are gone...
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LOL... Mark my words Saints aren\'t going anywheres!
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All I am saying is that a lot of folks in Louisiana are not Saints fans, most will never attend a game and have reason to wonder why the state is giving $10-20 million a year to an organization that gives the appearance of being mismanaged and has a hard time making it to .500 every year. The Saints aren\'t like roads, schools, police or prisons, which clearly benefit everyone. I\'m not sure what the tax burden is on the Saints, but it\'s a hard sell to tell people that they generate a great deal of tax revenue for the state and still need tax dollars paid to them by the state. |
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Euphoria - have you ever negotiated with a government agency? That\'s not how it works, and proceedurally, by the time the entity has gained the exact specific knowledge of the exact documents involved plus their exact whereabouts, plus demonstrated to the courts (expect a state challenge) the public interest rights to have the information disclosed, the deal will probably be long closed/terminated.
Take a look at our President\'s military record under FOIA - lots of black lines.... And lastly, anyone who knows anything about negotiating sensitive deals knows that the guy with the final say stays far in the background until the last possible moment. That\'s because there\'s no more room to maneuver and all interested parties have to know. This is why it disturbs me that Ms. Blanco chose to lead this charge. This is a classic \"paint yourself into a corner\" strategy. She can\'t do what car salesmen do and \"Go Ask the Manager.\" I\'m in the camp that this ignorant bush league ploy by Bianco is going to backfire and Benson will boogie in SoCal. |
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The largest payroll for the Saints is the players - roughly $80 million a year (that\'s the cap right?). Even at the 39.6% tax bracket, which I\'m not sure even still exists after all the Bush cuts, that\'s $32 million in tax. With good accountants, it\'s probably more like $20 million. That\'s about it for the Saints in terms of direct contributions. The Saints claimed Operating Profits of only $8 million last year. With corporate tax rates and incentives they already have - that may generate another million or two in taxes. The State DOES NOT LEVY TAX ON TICKET SALES. Nor do you pay taxes on concession in the Dome, last I checked. The profits from concessions in the Dome go to Tom Benson. The State pays for the concessions, concession stand workers, and everyone that makes the Dome run - via the Super Dome Commision. The State also paid for the practice facility in Metairie. As for apparel and all the other \"fringe\" revenue - it\'s hard to give the Saints credit for that. Sure, they sell merchandise, but so does the Gap. You ready to give the Gap a few million dollars a year b/c they pay taxes to the State on their sales at Lakeside Mall? That\'s discretionary income (AKA disposable) that would otherwise go into the economy anyway - unless you\'re of the belief that fans would otherwise squirrel away the $20 it costs to buy a T-shirt and retire to Florida and never pay LA a cent. Oh - and those 5,000 traveling fans 8 weeks a year - that\'s a drop in the bucket in terms of tourism in that City. That\'s one AMA meeting or other convention. The point of all of this is to show that the State already spends millions of dollars to support the team even before the cash payments. It\'s hard to show that the Saints generate any real revenue for the State. Quote:
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Xan,
I am the government. I am in DC work for and in the government. FOIA doesn\'t take long at all. Media does it all the time and 24 hours you\'ll have the papers/documents you were after, now that isn\'t saying you are going to find what you are looking for but there is a time limit the government has to respond to a request and its immediate not a year or 10 years... its 24-48 hours. Its also why the largest public affairs/media relations department in the world is... Navy Public Affairs (CHINFO) thats who handles the requests... have to be large to handle the amout of FOIA requests they get on a daily basis. Also keep in mind why the Govenor and Tom Benson do make it public... are you ready for this? Because each side wants the public to know what is going on so that \'we\' can take a side and help sway one of them to side with said proposal. Because of this do you think the govenerors office is getting e-mails, letters, phone calls over this stuff... YOU BETCHA. Oh and \"black lines\"... you have to take into consideration things coveren in the \'Privacy Act\' If lets say Benson\'s Social Security number is on the proposal that would be -lined out for as per Privacy Act. [Edited on 12/1/2005 by Euphoria] |
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[quote:20c4a48c9b]Xan,
I am the government. hahahahahahahahahaha..get real...you just totally blew away any hope you possibly had of ever making a point.. do you think people are \'\'I am the Government\'\'..hahaha...what a joke... I came real close to deleting this whole thing. It\'s unnecessary, you knew what he meant. [Edited on 12/1/2005 by JOESAM2002] |
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Gee, I almost felt something there...must be the breeze of my point rocketing over someone\'s head. Thank god/allah/buddah/yaweh/supreme being/eternal nothingness that it doesn\'t happen often.
As a private company, Benson is under no obligation to disclose anything to the State other than tax returns which the State already has. It is not in his organization\'s interest to do so specifically because of FOIA. Now, if you\'re on the Saints\' side, you simply put generic parameters around your negotiating position and let the Government turn Japanese trying to figure something out, hoping that they\'ll self destruct both strategically and politically. Fairly simple - keep the business or lose the business. All real decisions are made in sidebars, away from the idiots who knee jerk. None of this makes it onto paper until real positions are hammered out. Even in heavily regulated government industries like Pharma and Nukes. Rules #1, 2, 3 and 4 of negotiating - He/she who puts a number on paper first, loses. Bianco lost. |
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Also keep in mind why the Govenor and Tom Benson do make it public... are you ready for this? Because each side wants the public to know what is going on so that \'we\' can take a side and help sway one of them to side with said proposal. Because of this do you think the govenerors office is getting e-mails, letters, phone calls over this stuff... YOU BETCHA.
Do what?...let\'s get real..it isn\'t like you can have an agreement of this size and interest to taxpayers, and keep ot under wraps...it wasn\'t some carefully schemed project to leak out information on it...it\'s all over the papers..espn..and sports talk radio..it wasn\'t a public relations scheme..get real... Furthermore..It doesn\'t matter now what the \'\' people \'\' think..they have no say in the negotiations...the elected officials..that the \'\'people\'\' have voted in that will decide . that\'s about all the democracy you will see involved in this deal...I mean..how many of you have had any say whatsoever in the deal process at all?..none..and you won\'t...noone but the elected officials voices matter now..so..to say it is a scheme to sway people is a bit far fetched for me [Edited on 12/1/2005 by shadowdrinker] |
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Whats really sad is you know who Tagliabue is rooting for.
Probably most of the nation would want us to move to LA. |
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Hey Xan,
I worked for the government for a while to in the Homeland Security arena, so I know exactly what you\'re talking about. I think what gets to me the most is that I want to know why this team needs the money so badly. Here\'s an excerpt from a similar discussion we had a while back... I\'m quoting myself. Quote:
Now, on the field, what I see is mismanagement. A few years back when the Saints were crying about money (about the time Foster gave them this deal), Tagliapoo visited NO and said that the Saints problems were fixable on their own. He said the team was one of the worst marketers in the league, and that their woes were mostly their own. The Commissioner of the NFL said that. Two years later with a hefty new State subsidy they were top ten in the league in Net Operating Income. Now, two more years later and they\'re so poor again? It just doesn\'t work that way. The books are being cooked - if not, Benson would have nothing to hide. He\'d gladly show the State the books to demonstrate how well run the org. is, how they\'re cutting costs and stretching every buck.... I mean, wouldn\'t you? |
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One thing we all have to realize is the real worth of the franchise. If Benson just broke even yearly his investment in the Saints would have paid off by millions. I mean what he paid for it versus what he could get for it. My guess is that he would not move the Saints to LA -- he would sell them the team to LA investors. I know it still means the Saint move but it is a little different. Wonder if group in New Orleans could afford to buy them
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