Can we send Leon back if Farve retires?
 

ESPN's 4 quarters opined that Brett Farve was considering retirement. If that's so, can we return Leon North? What a great treat it would be to see Leon post his "great stats" up in the hinterlands.

Any takers??

Can we send Leon back if Farve retires?
 

thats to funny

Can we send Leon back if Farve retires?
 

Who would be our QB? I guess Bouman would do....NOT :casstet:

Can we send Leon back if Farve retires?
 

\"see that dimple?? that\'s my trademark dimple baby.\"

Can we send Leon back if Farve retires?
 

Maybe we can send Leon up north and get J.T. and our second round draft pick back. I\'d take that.

Can we send Leon back if Farve retires?
 

God. And you guys blame the team for a \"rush to mediocrity\".

Can we send Leon back if Farve retires?
 

Have you seen anything else but medicority and an acceptance of it from the team and front office? Show me one point in the last 4 years where we haven\'t been mediocre and i\'ll retract my statement.

Can we send Leon back if Farve retires?
 

If you\'re \"mediocre\" (by definition, worse than half the teams in the league, but also by defintition, also BETTER than half the teams in the league), you take steps to better the situation. It\'s usually wise to address the weakest aspect of the team first, because logically that\'s where you have the best shot at making a positive impact towards moving above \"mediocre\". You don\'t make your top priority dumping whoever the guy you personally dislike the most and replacing him with someone who is possibly incrementally better, although there\'s no evidence to suggest that would be the case with anyone mentioned in this thread so far.

Can we send Leon back if Farve retires?
 

Positions in most need of an upgrade, in order...
1. DT (2-gapper)
2. SLB
3. RT
4. WLB (or MLB and slide Watson over)
5. LT
6. QB
7. TE
8. SS
9. FS
10. CB

In my opinion, there a 5 positions I\'d address before I even thought about replacing Brooks. Of course that will change a bit depending on which coordinators come and go.

Can we send Leon back if Farve retires?
 

I agree..plus if you replace him....with whom?

Can we send Leon back if Farve retires?
 

You guys do know this is a trade scenario? Hello. If you trade Brooks, his salary is gone. Then these other needs we know we all have can be addressed. If we get a competent, consistent qb under center, we should be the same if not better on offense. It\'s not a matter of like or dislike. I guess you have seen a different offseason that I have the last 5 years Puddin. Care to show me some impact free agents we pay money to get every year?

This is common knowledge puddin. now I dare you to show me where it has happened the last 4 years at any point. Anything that shows we have gone out and gotten better in the past 4 years. I\'ll wait on that. Haz and Loomis are back ya know?

Again, show me where this team has done that or even shown the ability to in the last 4 years. I can wait for that info. AND, I think qb is a weak aspect of the team. Sorry if you disagree. Having an average to below average egomaniac under center with no back up seems like a problem to me. But some people like Mustangs with 4 cylinder engines in them.

Can we send Leon back if Farve retires?
 

Kitna, Garrard, McMahon, Volek. I\'d take any of those. Prob wouldn\'t cost more than a 3rd rounder. In the draft, Alex Smith or Jason Campbell to back them up and develop.

Can we send Leon back if Farve retires?
 

Or a V8 in a pinto...depends on which side of the argument you are on! :D

Can we send Leon back if Farve retires?
 

Are you suggesting our team is a pinto Venturi? And Brooks is a V8? I disagree whole heartedly. Now if you mean a new qb would be a V8, I will take that over the 4 cylinder we have now in any car, wouldn\'t you?

Can we send Leon back if Farve retires?
 

I think our whole team is mediocre because of the coaching staff. i.e. coordinators. If our D would have played like it played the last 4 wks(haz invloved) we would have been in Atl\'s shoes. you cant blame a qb for a 32nd rkd D! DEFENSE wins championships :exclam: :exclam:

Can we send Leon back if Farve retires?
 

No, you can\'t blame the defensive ranking ALL on a qb, but if it takes your qb a half to get warmed up, at which point you are scoring 0 points and giving numerous possessions to the opposing team putting your defense in bad situations, and you have a qb with a tendency to turn the ball over in the red zone, you aren\'t helping the D any. But no, he can\'t be blamed for the ranking. It\'s a good thing the D won despite him those last few games huh? And before anyone gets on the \"you just hate him\" bandwagon, his passer rating in the Atl game was 62.3, in the Dallas game, 68.2. Team won despite the qb. Now in the Tampa Bay game and Carolina game, ratings over 100. In the Tampa game, it all came in a 14 point 4th quarter explosion. Where was that quarter 1-3? In the Carolina game, Brooks just played a good game start to finish. Now, out of 4 games, I am sorry I can not pin my hopes on a qb who has ratings in the 60\'s in 2, over 100 in one because he got hot in the 4th quarter, and played one overall good game. I a not mad at anyone who can, I just can\'t.

Can we send Leon back if Farve retires?
 

None of these guys would be an upgrade...the best one would be Volek and he isn\'t goin anywhere

Can we send Leon back if Farve retires?
 

Trade Brooks, fix the D and get some OT\'s--then play ball control. You don\'t need Peyton Manning for that kind of offense.

Can we send Leon back if Farve retires?
 

I\'m with you BMG, all the way.

FireVenturi, any and all of those guys would be an upgrade. Who\'s to say Brooks won\'t be WORSE next year after he decides to hold out for more money. At the very least, one can be brought in to compete. I feel strongly enough that Kitna or Volek would be better. Garrard and McMahon, we would have to see if they could beat Brooks out. Plus, any of them could be had for a 3rd rounder or so. They are always \"available.\" And speaking of upgrades, it doesn\'t get much worse than Leon and his 78 something rating PLUS 12 or so fumbles, does it? Brooks was only 3 points higher than Vinny Testaverde for crap sake. And Volek blew him away with worse receivers and Chris Brown hurt the second half of the year. I guess it is all in how you see it.

Can we send Leon back if Farve retires?
 

1. We should get someone to push him-I agree
2.If he holds out..screw him, he aint a top notch QB

3. I just feel the only way he should be replaced is for an upgrade, as Volek prob would be an upgrade he ain\'t leavin Tenn. the other guys u mentioned are not an upgrade. Yes AB did have his worst season, but it is not on his shoulders 100%. WR\'s, OL, Off Coor.Wr\'s not including Joe

Can we send Leon back if Farve retires?
 

I\'m not gonna get into it, cause everyone besides Leon will get blamed for his ineptitude. Just look at the fumbles last year and the INTs the 2 years before, and the fact that the team was 7-4 without him and 3-3 with him the year they won the playoff game. The fact that he is in his 4th full year as the starter and either A) doesn\'t have the freedom to call audibles or B) calls the wrong audibles regularly, both of which speak to his IQ, or lack thereof. Even Eli Manning gets to call audibles and it won them the game against Dallas. Or you can look at his first hold out and recent proclamation that he is a \"great qb\" WITHOUT HAVING DONE ANYTHING. To me, with the attitude he has, it can\'t get much worse.

Can we send Leon back if Farve retires?
 

So then I assume you\'re blaming the lack of a fast start entirely (or at least mostly) on Brooks then right? Ok. One aspect of the team leans on the other. Brooks isn\'t perfect whodi, but nobody scores on every possession to be sure...no blocking half the time, a pittiful running game for the majority of the year, dropped passes, poor route running AND errant throws...it\'s ALL of these things ya know? I know you acknwoledge all these things, but your posts always end up bi***in\' about the QB. Jeesh man.

As I\'ve stated before, there is zero evidence of Brooks not having the freedom to call audibles. In fact he does have that freedom. Further, I\'ve seen him audible to success, and I\'ve heard the coaches speak of it, but then you probably think the coaches are just lyin to cover for Brooks. Whatever man.

For what it\'s worth, I saw Manning audible to a dive play last weekend when Denver had 9 guys in the box. The play gained...you guessed it...-2 yards. He also threw an interception because his guy ran the wrong route. Oh, he also rarely gets sacked because his line can friggin block. But then I\'d guess you blame our poor blocking on the QB...I think you already have.

Can we send Leon back if Farve retires?
 

Are you seriously saying Eli Manning has a line? Seriously? I don\'t know how I can even comment on the rest. They were 5-4 and removed Kurt Warner cause \"he was gonna get killed behind our line with our upcoming schedule.\" Straight from Tom Coughlin. That was just off.

Next, I can\'t count the number of times this year I have seen a team come up into a run blitz and Brooks run the play and Deuce gets slammed for a loss. So you tell me the reason for that. A)he doesn\'t like Deuce so keeps the play call. B) he audibled into a run blitz. C) he doesn;t have the freedom to call blitzes. Explain to me how we call run plays into obvious blitzes if he CAN audible. I don\'t see how that can be, unless he is dumber than previously thought.

And i would listen to all this oh it\'s the receivers and the line stuff, but I was at the Dallas game. Zero pressure on Brooks. Line blocked its arse off. Balls thrown into the ground, into double coverage, over the receivers head. Just a ridiculous performance. So don\'t give me that \"it\'s everyone around Brooks\" nonsense cause I saw it live for myself in a situation where he was playing a losing team WITH NO PRESSURE ON HIM.

Also, is you read elsewhere, I blame McCarthy for the slow start as much as Brooks. I guess you only show up when I am blasting Brooks. McCarthy obviously couldn;t see it took until the second hald most games for Brooks to get going when we were already down so he should have gameplanned this strategy. Won\'t help when your qb doesn\'t know what a touch pass is or takes 8 step drops into the rush. So obviously no teams scores on every possession, BUT EVERY FIRST QUARTER FOR 13 or 14 STRAIGHT GAMES??? give me a break.

Can we send Leon back if Farve retires?
 

Also, if you hadn\'t realized, this thread is ABOUT THE QB. Should I go talk about the Superdome renovation in a thread about the qb? Jeesh man.

Can we send Leon back if Farve retires?
 

May sound wimpy but I am going to basically going to go middle of the road with the Brooks argument. I believe the guy has loads of talent --- I also believe that his ego is getting in the way of him progressing. One would almost think that he tanks the early parts of games so he gets into the situation that he has to be the star making the plays. Actually his problem (as witht he Saints offense in general) is that they go into the game thinking they are so much better than the other team that they play with no real passion. If you are not 100% ready to play you are going to get spanked. By the time they realize the game is out of reach they start playing for real. Now at the end of the season they perked up because they were so far down (season wise) it was time to play.

Can we send Leon back if Farve retires?
 

Sure you want to rule that out?

Can we send Leon back if Farve retires?
 

He can\'t be dumber than I previously thought BMG. Just not possible.

Can we send Leon back if Farve retires?
 

4saints, I can respect that. I have no problem with ANYONE liking Brooks, but the minute I lay his faults out I get the \"it\'s the line, the receivers, the coaches, the playcalling, the hot dog vendors, the parking attendant, the President, Osama Bin Ladin, and the Taliban\" that is keeping him from being successful. It\'s just unreal. Everyone has a right to an opinion, and mine is that Brooks is a sorry excuse for a qb and his free pass is over. Do I have to get railed because of it?

Can we send Leon back if Farve retires?
 

No, you have to read the post.

LAST WEEKEND...I don\'t think ELI was playing Last Weekend eh?

Not accurate. You blast the QB daily. People, including me, remind you from time to time that there are other considerations, that\'s all.

Sure you do...same as I get railed for pointing out that he\'s not a \"sorry excuse\" for a QB. ;)

Can we send Leon back if Farve retires?
 

saintfan, did you notice I didn\'t start this thread? Did you think a thread about trading Leon away, and calling him Leon, was about welcoming him back to the team with open arms next year? Maybe you should understand the topic you are posting under better.

Also since I am \"blasting\" him, can you tell me one thing I have pointed out about him that isn\'t true?

[Edited on 11/1/2005 by saintswhodi]

Can we send Leon back if Farve retires?
 

The same people that are bashing Aaron Brooks are the same people that will (and always do) say that the Saints always get rid of talent. Now fair enough, he has played terrible sometimes and sometimes he has played brilliantly. But even when the Saints had winning seasons what QB did we have that was better than what we have now? It is proven in this league every year that the most important part of your team is the defense. You can not be successful without atleast middle or higher ranked defense and it shows in the playoff also. Now if Brooks leaves a goes on the be succesful everyone that is bashing him will be bashing the team still because there are a lot more problems than Aaron Brooks on offense like: stupid penaltys, blown blocking assignments, dropped passes(especially at the beginning of the season), and a lack of a running game.

[Edited on 11/1/2005 by Rsanders24]

Can we send Leon back if Farve retires?
 

Tick,tock, I smell a lock! You 2 get along.

Can we send Leon back if Farve retires?
 

Bottom line if the rams would have lost and we would have gotten into the post-season, win or lose, he would be king. everybody would have jumped on tha AB bandwagon. Just like they will when we geta decent Oc, or when yall get yall wish and he goes somewhere(witha D) and gets to a SB!

Can we send Leon back if Farve retires?
 

WURDDDD

Can we send Leon back if Farve retires?
 

Saints always get rid of talent? Let me see:

La\'Roi Glover- Isn\'t he in the pro bowl AGAIN this year?
Sammy Knight-First or second in the league in INTs the last 6 years
Willie Roaf-Need I say more?
Terrelle Smith-Love Karney, but Deuce was a beast behind Smith
Kyle Turley-The Rams line has been crap without him.
Marc Bulger-How many playoff appearances does he have the last 4 years?
Jake Delhomme-Superbowl anyone?

Nope, can\'t see why anyone would think the Saints get rid of talent.

Let\'s examine talent they simply misjudge:

Sullivan-Trufant and Kevin Williams behind him in the draft and Byron Leftwich. Terrell Suggs also I think. Great choice.
Henderson-Coulda had Keary Colbert or Donterrius Thomas
Stinchcomb-Coulda had Rashean Mathis and several other players I don\'t wanna look up.

So, I guess you are right, I don\'t know how anyone who says the Saints get rid of talent doesn\'t fall head over heels for Aaron Brooks. I mean, we got rid of or passed on so much other talent, let\'s stick with Leon and mediocrity cause God forbid we are 4-12 and miss the playoffs instead of 8-9 or 7-9 and miss them.

Can we send Leon back if Farve retires?
 

So then if I create a thread praising Brooks you wouldn\'t be one of the first to post there railing me for it? Get real man.

AMEN Joe. Whodi, I suggest you relax but quick.

Can we send Leon back if Farve retires?
 

True, but every team has overlook talent let\'s take Sullivan as an example. Even though you and many others may have thought that the Saints reached in taking him with the #6 pick he was still considered a early to early- mid first round pick. When they drafted him did you automatically know that he wouldn\'t come close to living up to that pick? Probably not. And if you did then you need to submit your resume to every team in the league because the draft is nothing but a gamble. A year ago do you really think that the Chargers would have picked Rivers if they knew that Brees would have the year that he had? I doubt it. And everyone that is saying that we should get him would not have said that last year. And as for La\'Roi Glover yes he made it to the Pro Bowl but did he really help his team? No, The same reason Dallas might let him go(check ESPN) is the same reason the Saints let him go he is great against the pass but a liability against the run. Some of the others they coulnd\'t keep anyway. Also, eveyone one does not work in the same system. Players that are good in one system may be horrible in another. And once again how many games did the defense lose for us Aaron Brooks did not lose these game by himself. Why do you mention Jake Delhomme? He isn\'t any better they won last year because of an awesome DEFENSE and a HEALTHLY RUNNING GAME! I didn\'t see Byron Leftwich make to many spectacular plays last year or this year, they one with great defense and a running game unless they had to pass. So, while I see what you are saying mos tof it doesn\'t apply to our situation because eventhough Aaron Brooks didn\'t play spectacular in the final four games we won with a good defense and good offense. ;)

Can we send Leon back if Farve retires?
 

Reference 237 other posts of how that happened. Joe Johnson, Randy Mueller, not Haz
reference 200 other posts that discuss why HE wanted to leave, or simply this quote...\"I\'ll retire before I play here again\"

Actually Deuce was starting to fade long before T-rex left. T-rex was good, but hardly the reason for Deuces success.
And they were crap with him also. Ask a bruised and battered Warner. And what happened? He stated he was an elite LT, and demanded to be payed like one. Hmmm, lets see, signed with the Rams for about the same price we offered him. I think the Turley situation is a bad example of how WE screwed up.
He sucked when he was here, behind Blake, Brooks, and Delhomme. He was an injury proned prospect who grew into a decent QB, 4 years after we cut him.
Yea, give the Saints that Defense and running game and we don\'t choke in the superbowl.

Yea, me either.


yep, talented playes at the wrong need positions. But, Stinch was a 2 year project anyway and Henderson was drafted because 3 of our top 4 WR\'s had serious question marks surrounding their future.
If Donte had continued his injury bug, Horn\'s knees had deteriorated as many feared, and Pathon continued the dropsies, and Lewis/Gardner regressed the Henderson pick would have looked as awesome as any of the WR\'s selected in the 2004 draft.

If your gonna ridicule somebody, at least have your facts straight. ;)

Can we send Leon back if Farve retires?
 

I am not even gonna address the rest of what you said Danno cause A) NOONE WAS TALKING ABOUT HAZ. We were talking about THE SAINTS. Oops. And Deuce was fading? Faded right into the pro bowl? Roaf didn\'t wanna play here? Did you hear what Ty Law said about his coach on ESPN and where is he playing? If Bulger was only a good qb this year, how come he was in the playoffs last year? 12-4? Won their division? Allowed them to get rid of Kurt Warner? Maybe your facts need checking.

saintsfan, say what you will, you came into this thread and railed me. Why do I need to chill? IT was negative about Brooks FROM THE BEGINNING. If you found something positive about Brooks in the title, please explain to me where it is so I can understand. I wanna know where the mix up is and how I minuderstood this to be a we love Brooks thread and how I brought the negativity into it. The point to me is, I don\'t rail anyone about liking Brooks. I explain why I don\'t. Big difference. I have never had a problem with anyone liking Brooks whether I can understand it or not, look a few posts up at what I posted to 4saintsspirit. I have said this numerous times. Others don\'t extend the same courtesy. I have a right to not like Brooks, just as you have a right to like him. I also have a right not to rail anyone about it, like you did to me. If you show me a thread where someone was lauding Brooks and I railed them about it I would love to see it. I bet you will fine MANY where I expressed how I felt about him, but never railed anyone else.

RSanders, I remember the Sullivan pick clearly and the look of utter confusion on EVERYONE who was on the ESPN\'s panel including Kiper\'s faces. As a matter of fact, Kiper didn\'t have him in his top 25 so how was he an early to late first pick? They said the Saints coulda got him in the second. He may have become a early first pick cause we made him one. I knew that was a bad pick from the get go and groaned about it. But we have no way of proving it, so it\'s moot. I don\'t get paid to make those decisions, the Saints do. Big difference. If I don\'t like a guy, it doesn\'t affect the Saints. If the Saints make bad picks and bad decisions, it affects a whole region of the country.

[Edited on 12/1/2005 by saintswhodi]

Can we send Leon back if Farve retires?
 

No, I disagreed. Deal with it...and CHILL OUT!

[Edited on 12/1/2005 by saintfan]