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WhoDat 01-09-2003 11:36 AM

What does AB have?
 
Let's see if anyone in this forum can answer this question...

Stats aside, all great quarterbacks have a special something that makes them great. Most of the time its an intangible. One of those things that stats can't measure. For example:

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Favre, for most of his career, has won when it matters. He has the ability to make the tough throw look easy and he creates.

Gannon and Manning are "students of the game." People say that these two guys spend more time in the film room than anyone else in their respective organizations and as a result, they always know what's going on and where everyone is on the field.

Vick, Garica, mcNabb have the ability to beat you with their arms or legs. All of these guys find a way to avoid the rush and keep the chains moving one way or another.

Or, if you want an up-and-coming young guy, Chad Pennington is efficient. He has the ability to read the defense, find the right receiver, and get the ball out quickly.

Kurt Warner, up until this year when his thumb and pinky finger finally caught up with him, was accurate. He had the ability to always put the ball out in front of a receiver exactly where it needed to be so the receiver could catch it AND run with it.

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SO...

What does Aaron Brooks have?

A strong arm? Athleticism? Youth? Good receivers who know how to find the end zone... a big paycheck (just kidding). But seriously, what does he have?

A strong arm, athleticism, youth - those things are attributes, not skills. They are the kind of things you use to gain a skill. A skill is something that is learned and worked at to perfect. Those things come naturally to Brooks.

But how does he use those things to help his team, like Vick uses his feet to run for positive yardage or Pennington uses his head to read the D and find the right receiver? Does he use his strong arm to fit passes into spots that seem impossible? Does he use his athleticism to avoid the rush and pick up yardage? Does his youth make him more ambitious, work harder, last longer than other guys?

Someone, anyone, please tell me. What does Aaron Brooks have that is making Jim Haslett and the rest of the Saints organization believe that he is the quarterback of the future for this team?

saintz08 01-09-2003 12:55 PM

What does AB have?
 
Great smile ??

I am going with Strong Arm .

WhoDat 01-09-2003 01:05 PM

What does AB have?
 
So a strong arm is worth $36 million? I\'m not buying it.

C\'mon people. Some of you who frequent this site are backing Brooks even now. Others have supported Haslett, the Muellers, Loomis, Benson, etc. in their ability to judge talent and put together a good football team. Now, I\'m asking a question that, if you believe in this team\'s management, and its ability to make good decisions, should be easy to answer.

saintz08 01-09-2003 01:57 PM

What does AB have?
 
I would not have bought it either .

Scott Mitchel had a strong arm too and lots of potential .

Andre Ware , same thing . Now the only thing referenced on him is Andre\'s Where ??

Brooks was special in 2000 , he was an uncharted back up and caught the world by surprise . Maddox is doing the same in Pittsburgh , Brady in New England and Bulger in St. Louis .

saintfan 01-09-2003 02:04 PM

What does AB have?
 
First, including Vick in your list of \"great\" QB\'s is ignorant. FYI he uses his feet because at this particular point in his career, as his coach will tell you, he\'s not good enough to read the defense yet. He bails...and if he doesn\'t stop soon he\'ll get himslef killed.

Brett Farve has stunk up more games than I can count trying to improvise. People overlook that because he\'s a proven winner. But he didn\'t win when it mattered last week did he? Maybe you think Green Bay should look for a new QB this offseason.

Didn\'t manning kinda stink it up last week. Maybe he can\'t step up and win the big game. Maybe the Colts will draft a replacement QB this April. After all, you\'re not a big fan of patience are ya? I\'m sure you think that\'d be a good move.

You didn\'t mention Tom Brady? Why not? Didn\'t he win the Superbowl last year? What happened to him?

You give Warner a break cause of his finger, but you won\'t cut Brooks any slack regarding an injury eh? hmmmm, now why is that WhoDat?

As you have been so quick to point out, defenses learn how to defend QB\'s over time, so the Jury is still out on some folks...the same way it will happen to them is the same way it would happen to your \"Golden Boy\", Jake.

Rare talent WhoDat...more than anything else I can say. That doesn\'t make him Joe Montana, but woldn\'t it be nice to see Brooks with the weapons Joe Had? Don\'t player hate baby. If you\'re in love with Jake it\'s ok to admit it. It takes all kinds to make a world.

WhoDat 01-09-2003 03:38 PM

What does AB have?
 
So far Gator, 08, and Saintfan have answered this post. These are three of the more intelligent people on this board. They post regularly, and as far as I can tell keep up with all Saints news.

Why is it that none of them has been able to give a straight answer?! Aaron Brooks has [BLANK]?! Fill in the blank. Anyone. Everyone. Just say, Aaron Brooks has this, and for these reasons he could be a great QB in the NFL.

Don\'t talk to me about Favre, Vick, Jake Delhomme, or anyone else. Talk about Brooks.

THE FACT THAT NO ONE HAS BEEN ABLE TO GIVE A STRAIGHT ANSWER SPEAKS VOLUMES MORE ABOUT BROOKS\' ABILITIES AND TRUE POTENTIAL THAN ANYTHING ELSE ANYONE HAS SAID.

WhoDat 01-09-2003 04:31 PM

What does AB have?
 
FINALLY!!! SOMEONE GIVES A STRAIGHT ANSWER!

Gator, you\'re my new freakin\' hero. OK, Gator says that Brooks:
1. Has a great arm
2. Is a good scrambler
3. Is tall
4. Is quick
5. Has escapability

If anyone thinks he is missing anything just shout them out any time. In the mean time I am going to move forward with these.

Let\'s start with number 1... how does a great arm help Aaron Brooks be a better quarterback in the NFL?

WhoDat 01-09-2003 04:50 PM

What does AB have?
 
Gator, I\'m not so sure that you do see my point. I agree with you about Brooks. I do not think Aaron\'s arm helps him.

Half the quarterbacks in the league or more are described as strong armed. But Brooks\' arm doesn\'t allow him to throw the touch pass. He uses it to force balls into places he shouldn\'t and throws off his back foot b/c he thinks his arm is strong enough to get the ball there.

My point, or I should say my own answer to the question, would be that Aaron\'s arm isn\'t going to make him into a great QB. A strong arm certainly doesn\'t hurt, but I\'d take touch over strength. So, the strong arm argument that everyone who says Aaron is going to be a superstar doesn\'t hold water for me. It doesn\'t elevate him beyond any average QB in the league. There are probably 100 guys who have stronger arms who aren\'t playing football. Just like there are 100 other guys as fast as the \"Beer man\" who aren\'t playing football.

In fact, a strong arm might hurt Brooks. He relies on it more than he should, he uses it as a crutch so he doesn\'t have to have touch, or make a good read, etc.

OK, what was next? He scrambles well. How does Aaron Brooks\' ability to scramble help this team and make him an above average QB in this league?

saintfan 01-09-2003 05:02 PM

What does AB have?
 
I\'m wondering why WhoDat can\'t listen to simple reason. Why does this fellow detest Mr. Brooks so much? What did he do to you WhoDat? Maybe we can talk to him and get him to stroke your ego some. Would that help you feel better?

You\'re obviously a wonderful judge of football talent too I might add. Tell me again why no NFL team has picked up on that? Tell me again why it is that men who likely have a collective total of more years of football experience than you\'ve been on this planet can be so wrong and you can be so right? Boy oh boy, you should bottle that stuff up and sell it.

WhoDat 01-09-2003 05:21 PM

What does AB have?
 
Listen Saintfan, I\'m trying to have a discussion. Not an argument, a discussion, on Aaron Brooks. I asked people, you especially, to list the attributes and skills that Aaron Brooks has that you believe makes him better than average, or gives him the potential to be. Now, I am trying to break down those points one by one.

PS - Sorry Gator, I\'m not coming after you I was just flustered. You know your sh-t, and whether we agree or disagree I respect your opinion.

See Saintfan. Gator can spell it out. In nice short simple sentences. You want to talk about everything but Brooks. I\'m asking you to talk about it. Gator listed some points, go from there. Convince me, point by point.

You tell me, why will a strong arm benefit Brooks? How will it make him better than average in years to come? It\'s a simple question that has a pretty obvious answer. I\'m setting myself up for a fall on this particular question just to prove a point that it appears you are unable to make.

ScottyRo 01-09-2003 06:12 PM

What does AB have?
 
May I add my thoughts?

I think that even though AB has his problems (throwing as he falls back and that he rarely moves up in the pocket - to name 2) when he is on fire and the team is playing with intensity, he is one of the best in today\'s game. Even this year he has made some amazing throws, but they\'ve all been in the \"big\" games.

Some of you may remember how in 2000 and 2001 he seemed to get off to slow starts in games, but things really seemed to click in the second half. We didn\'t see that too much in 2002, but I think that is going to be his legacy....winning games in the fourth quarter. I\'m not saying he\'ll be the greatest ever and I wont rule out Jake as a good QB, but like I said when AB is on it, there are few better in the league.

AB seems to be able to read defenses efficiently, he can definitely get the ball down field, and I\'ll go so far as to say that he does have \"touch\" he just didn\'t show it much this year. What AB needs is an o-line that plays with intensity and to be more like a boss or a \"field general\" as they say, than just one of the guys which is what I think he wants to be.

Sorry for the long rants...I just can\'t seem to express myself in a non-lengthy manner.

WhoDat 01-09-2003 06:37 PM

What does AB have?
 
Scotty, I started this thread for that reason - to get peoples\' thoughts on Brooks.

I agree with some of the things you said, and I disagree with others. I don\'t think Brooks has much touch and I really haven\'t seen him throw the deep ball yet.

My biggest knocks on him though aren\'t his tangibles. Certainly he looks like the prototypical quarterback of the future. However, he doesn\'t have those things that you can measure like smarts, natural leadership, and that fire, that need to win.

Now, I don\'t know if what Brooks needs to learn can be taught. If it\'s a matter of inexperience or instinct. But I do think he hasn\'t progressed from a smarts standpoint very far since he came to New Orleans. He still makes dangerous throws, stupid mistakes, etc.

The leadership issue is also a big one. I\'ve been in the President and/or a variety of Chief Officer roles throughout my life, and the one thing that I\'ve learned from my experience is that leadership cannot effectively be taught. You can teach a person to be a better manager, but not a better leader. I think that that\'s something that he\'s not going to get a lot better at over time. That\'s just my opinion though.

ScottyRo 01-09-2003 09:35 PM

What does AB have?
 
WhoDat, I agree that AB is lacking in some of the intangibles that make good QB\'s great, but I must disagree about Aaron not being a smart QB. Now don\'t get me wrong, AB has ticked me off many, many times over the past couple of years with some of his decisions, but I refer to smart in the sense that he seems to be able to read D\'s pretty good - not that he always makes smart throws. The Saints would not have gone 6-1 against the teams we beat if Aaron wasn\'t.

I believe the clue to why we failed so miserably down the stretch can be found in analyzing the only game we lost of the first 7. How the heck could the Lions beat us? Don\'t blame AB. He wasn\'t the TE that was trying to set an NFL record for dropped passes! Obviously, the team wasn\'t fired up to play the Lions - as was the problem whenever we played a lower caliber team. I blame the lines on both sides of the ball for appearing to want the afternoon off when we played these teams that we should have easily beaten.

But then again, that is where I lay blame on AB, too. Not all of the blame, of course, but his leadership must include calling out players - especially on offense - who are not performing up to the appropriate level. To me he seems too laid back for this. Fortunately though, that is something that he can grow into, and leadership techniques CAN be learned. His lack of leadership might also be traced to an inferiority complex brought on by his youth when he\'s around those who are older than he is. This should certainly pass as the years go by and his polite and friendly personallity which may be hindering him nowl become an asset as he takes on more of a fatherly role with new players.

We should remember that although Aaron was hurt, he had still put the team in the position to beat Carolina and our other offensive stars dropped the ball. Now I admit that I didn\'t get to watch the last game, but the highlights showed a WR fumbling at the opponents 20 and a WR on another drive near the end of the game dropping what would have been a TD pass. There\'s at least 10 points on the WR\'s hands not Aaron\'s. Plenty to win the game.
If I am wrong about the way things went in the game please explain it, but remember the drops and the fumble. And take an honest look at it. Sometimes you guys in here sound like a bunch lawyers who decide their going to argue for one side or the other and it doesn\'t matter what anybody else says. If there is a point to discussing anything it is to attempt to come to a concensus on the problem and how to fix it. later

WhoDat 01-10-2003 08:30 AM

What does AB have?
 
I just don\'t see Aaron being a smart guy. I don\'t see him reading defenses well. If he did, you would see more audibles... which he rarely does. You would see more quick slants or quick outs being hit b/c he stepped up to the line and IDed the hot route.

I don\'t know if you were around or nota couple of weeks ago, but I posted a little insight into Brooks. I certainly don\'t know him. I know what I read and what I see. However, I do know a couple of doctors over at West Jeff that have worked for the Saints. Both who have met and worked with and around Aaron said the same thing about him. He has the intellect and emotional maturity of a ten year old.

I think his actions on and off the field echo this. When he was hurt, did he have the headphones on talking to the booth, standing next to McCarthy or Haslett and cheering on Delhomme? No, he was goofing off on the bench as far away from the field as he could get. Haslett and the coaching staff coddle him, to protect his fragile ego. I don\'t see him working hard. I don\'t hear reports about how hard he works. Not even from Haslett. I just don\'t think he has the smarts, leadership, or fire to be successful.

Don\'t get me wrong, I\'d rather have Brooks than the Billy Joes or Chris (wink, wink) Everett. I\'m just really concerned that the coaching staff was so quick to label Brooks our franchise player. The guy who we\'re building our offense around. I don\'t think he has proved he is worth that kind of respect, and unfortunately, never will. I wish that the coaching staff would evaluate Brooks just like they do evey other player. I don\'t think that happens. Brooks is given a pass far too often... which also will ultimately hurt his development.

saintfan 01-10-2003 09:44 AM

What does AB have?
 
Thank you ScottyRo. Thank you very much. Because I\'ve been loyal to AB to a fault, I admit, I\'ve taken quite a bit of heat in here...particularly from two posters who refuse to look at anything other than AB as a problem. I\'ve never tried to say he was Montana, but I have tried to post stats that indicate he\'s a good QB...one that has the ability to grow and become even better. Lesser QB\'s have one the Superbowl for sure. Why is it so hard to think Brooks couldn\'t do it?

In fact AB did have the Saints in the position to win not only the last Carolina game, but the Vikings game too. We lost to the Flacons when Duece and Aaron put the team in a position to win. We all know what happend in that game. You\'re correct about the Detroit game too. Winning those 3 games alone, none of which can be hung on Brooks, and the Saints are sittin\' pretty aren\'t they? Fact of the matter is I can think of one game, the Cleveland game, that I could hang on AB being the reason we lost, and in that game he was a QB without a rushing attack.

Numbers can be posted \'til we\'re old and our fingers won\'t type anymore, and regardless there are some people who persist with their \"mob mentality\". Like gator says, it\'s all in fun, and what goes around will most definately come back around.

I suppose my real frustration is that those that are so interested in seeing AB benched or traded (and at any cost mind you) and would love to see Haz fired are the same ones who seemingly refuse to see any other fault with this team. They can\'t remember (or choose to forget) the dropped balls or fumbles. They\'ve forgotten those wide open lanes blitzers came through...especially late in the season. They\'re quick to point out how other teams compare, but they won\'t accept it when someone does that in favor of Brooks or Haz. They would have you believe a new coach and Jake Delhomme would bring us the football glory we all so rightly deserve. Ahhh, if it were only that easy huh?

I understand ANY Saints fan\'s frustrations. We\'ve been through more than enough with this team since what, 1967? Hell, I wasn\'t even alive in 1967, but this team breaks my heart year after year. While I know how much it hurts, I do my best to understand that winning the Superbowl is a difficult task. So many things have to come together...it almost has to be magical. I know it takes good players and good coaches, and I also know it takes a little luck. Luck is something the Saints have never had much of, but I believe it\'s coming, cause like Gator says, what goes around comes around.

I wonder how many Saints fans who aren\'t sportswriters or radio talk show hosts, of those of us who aren\'t paid or don\'t benefit from creating controversy, those of us with level heads, actually think Haz should be fired. As for me, I\'ll say again that I think he\'s done a damned fine job with the offense...especially considering what he started with a few short years ago. As for me, I\'d like to see him have the same oppurutnity with the defense. I see the core of the offense under contract for a few years, so I believe Jim will turn his attention to the Defense, and I believe he\'ll have similar success on that side of the ball.

I know people are pist at Jim for playing Brooks at the end. It\'s debatable as to whether or not the team had a better change to win with Brooks or Jake considering the injury. We can tell \'em Brooks had the team in the position to win, and that dropped passes and fumbles are ultimately what cost us the game, but I assue you they won\'t have any of it. The thing is the injury had little to do with people calling for Jake. These are the same people who were calling for Jake when the team was 6-1. These people will have us belive they knew something about both Jake and Brooks that Haz didn\'t know. I can\'t help but question that since, to my knowledge none of these folks are employed by the Saints. These people will tip their hat to another teams QB and allow an injury as an excuse, but they won\'t give their own starting QB the same nod. Why is that? These are the people that insist we qualify AB\'s obvious talent and ability in one word.

Ultimately, those that want Jake want him because they want him. They want Haz fired because they\'re pist at him for not playing Jake. There are exceptions I\'m sure, but it all comes back to that really. There will be no \"reaching a consensus\" with \'em because they don\'t wanna reach one. I\'ve said several times that if Jake were to do what he\'s been unable to do thus far, which is win the starting job (he\'s had 5 years and lesser QBs than Aaron to overcome) then I\'m behind him 110% because I want this team to win. The FACT is he hasn\'t. They hate Brooks for it and they blame Haz for it. You can lead a horse to water, but you can\'t make him drink.

WhoDat 01-10-2003 10:38 AM

What does AB have?
 
Saintfan, sice we have regained some level of civility, and since much of your post was obviously aimed at me, I would like to respond. First, please don\'t put words in my mouth or claim that I have said things that I simply haven\'t said.

True, I called for Jake even when the Saints were 6-1. True, I think he is a better fit for this team. True, I am not a coach and I don\'t make the decisions.

I don\'t want Haslett fired because he didn\'t play Jake Delhomme. That\'s ridiculous. I do not have a lot of faith in his coaches. Coaches like Venturi, who you have fervently said needs to go. Coaches like McCarthy, who, if I am not mistaken, you attacked for poor play selection and the inability to adapt and change througout a game and/or season.

Haslett hired those guys. Haslett is sticking with those guys. Haslett is the leader who went out and made a ton of off-season moves to insure this team had veteran leadership and didn\'t collapse again this year. But it did. The great coaches. The Jimmy Johnsons, the Bill Parcels, etc. all took bad teams and made them legitimate contenders quickly.

I thought Haslett was one of those guys after his first year. I thought that finally the Saints had found a good one. The difference here is that with those other coaches, their teams got better each year. They improved each year. They didn\'t regress. And within four years they got to the Super Bowl.

Now, I said next year is make or break for Haslett. It his fourth year. This team needs to get better in a huryy. If they don\'t, then HE SHOULD BE FIRED. Because this whle idea of \"building a franchise\" is somewhat obsolete in this league. Don\'t get me wrong, you should go for broke in one year... but, in an era where teams go from worst to first every single year, you cannot keep looking out to some future date. At some point you have to start saying things need to happen now!

As for Brooks. You act as if I am the only person that feels this way. I\'ve told you that I have insights from people who know and have worked with the man. Do you know anyoen that has worked with Aaron Brooks? Hokie Gajan, a hometown favorite said on the air that Brooks is not the QB to lead the Saints to a Super Bowl. He\'s got no credibility huh?

Did receivers drop balls? Yes. Did the line play worse towards the end of the year then it did in the beginning? Somewhat, but I wouldn\'t say it was significantly worse. Did Brooks play significantly worse in the last 4 1/2 games this year than he did in the first 11 1/2? I leave you to answer that one. It\'s already been answered a hundred times, but I\'d like to see if you are willing to put even the slightest amount of blame on Brooks, or if he is truly infalable in your eyes.

saintfan 01-10-2003 10:40 AM

What does AB have?
 
Gatorman, understand that I\'m a fan of Jake. I didn\'t think we needed Jeff Blake. I thought Jake should have been given the chance. I thought that after he beat Dallas in the Dome a few years ago. I LOVE the guy. My brother has worked out with him in Lake Charles a few times. He\'s well spoken, he smart, and I\'ll go so far as to say I sure as hell hope we can keep him. I have no doubt he has what it takes to start in the NFL...none whatsoever, and I\'d argure that point with anyone.

Is AB top 5? Probably not. Not yet anyway. I think I said top 5 in 4 of the 8 categories WhoDat posted. I will say I think he\'s one of the top QB\'s in the league, but if I say top 5 or top 10 then there are two people who for sure will come in a ask me to list \'em. Then they\'d raise hell because I had him 9th instead of 10th. Why bother. I\'d give him a better ranking than Vick, thats for sure. I\'ll take issue with WhoDat on that one. I mean, if you want a QB that can\'t read a defense but can rush better than your running back then Vick\'s the guy, but I\'m not speaking of one of your posts. Someone else brightly called Vick one of the leagues \"elite\" simply because he made the popularity contest...ummm...I mean probowl. Vick is a \"special\" player to be sure, but an \"elite\" QB he is not...perhaps some day, but not yet. Not so fast.

Let me say I have no doubt that Jake could (and probably will) start for someone. I\'ll also say I don\'t think he has the tools Brooks has, and I don\'t think the Saints would have been any better off this past year had Jake come in at 6-1 or for the last game. This team\'s problems go beyond the QB position. I don\'t mean to say or insinuate that Jake \"isn\'t good enough\" to start. My point is that in 5 years he\'s failed to crack the lineup, and neither Brooks nor Haz has been here that long. No reason to player hate Brooks or Jim...I just don\'t understand why that\'s so difficult to see?

Also, I don\'t start many threads in here. I have done my level best to back Brooks because I think he\'s being unfairly held totally responsible for every problem this team has encountered. It\'s frustrating to see him throw a laser over the middle only to watch the receiver drop the damn ball...and then to come in here the next day to all these posts blaming him. Yeah, he made some terrible throws this past year, and a lot of \'em came after the injury, but he made some damn good ones too. He made some throws I know Jake doesn\'t have the arm to make. Not many in the NFL can gun it like he can. Sure he needs to develop touch. There are other aspects of his game that need work too, but anyone that denies his potential has to have a motive. Have you seen anyone in here Bash Brooks that didn\'t want Jake? See, it\'s not about Brooks really, it\'s about Jake. He\'s local. Thats not to say he isn\'t worthy, but if he wants the job as bad as certain people want him to have it, then let him go out and win it this summer. I promise I\'ll cheer just as loud for him as I have for Brooks. I just don\'t see it happening. In your heart, do you?

WhoDat 01-10-2003 12:11 PM

What does AB have?
 
I don\'t see it happening either, but you\'re assuming that the playing field is level. It\'s not. I don\'t \"bash\" Brooks because I want Jake. My motive is not to have Jake somehow inserted into the lineup.

My hope is that the Saints will find a better quarterback. In my opinion, there are a good number of guys out there who are better than Brooks. Likewise, there are a good number of young guys with just as much, if not more, potential. Are all of them available to the Saints? No. Are some? Probably. The point I am making is the same, even if J.T. is our back up. Brooks is not the right guy for this Saints team. He doesn\'t fit the type of offense that they are trying to run. He is too selfish to not be considered one of the weapons on a team full of them. He can\'t lead, and he isn\'t that bright.

I haven\'t seen anything that says Brooks reads defenses better than Vick. Both say that they have to improve in that area. Is Vick a bigger passing threat right now? No. Can he be? Yes. Did VIck lead a team with fewer weapons to a better record and a playoff win? Yes. But that\'s neither here nor there.

I think the thing that is most amazing to me is the perception. Saintfan says, \"It\'s frustrating to see him throw a laser over the middle only to watch the receiver drop the damn ball.\" On average... average... what where there, two dropped passes a game? We know Brooks averaged at least one interception a game and probably at least 1/2 a fumble. Are you telling me that he didn\'t throw at least one or two more dangerous/stupid passes in a game?! But the thing that pops out at you is that recievers are dropping the ball... not that Brooks is being dangerous or careless or stupid. How and why is that?

And let me ask you this, compared to the rest of the league, what\'s better, our receiving corp or our quarterback? Right now, today.

WhoDat 01-10-2003 12:21 PM

What does AB have?
 
And let me just clear one thing up. Aaron Brooks finished in the top ten in four categories amongst the 30 QBs in the league with the most passing yards. They were:

Touchdowns - he was second. That\'s a big one and great to see.

Pass Attempts - he was 9th. I don\'t know how throwing more than 21 other quarterbacks makes you better than them.

Yards - he was also 9th. To me, if you throw more than 21 other quarterbacks you should have more yards, especially with our receiving corp, but again. I\'ll give him credit and say that great to see also.

Interceptions - he was 10th. This is not good. This is bad. That means that only 9 guys in the league threw MORE interceptions than he did. Bad thing, but then again he throws more often, so by my own logic, it goes to reason.

Here are a couple of bad things. Even though he threw the 9th most passes he completed the 16th most passes. That gave him the 27th best completion percentage. That\'s really bad. He also had the 20th ranked passer rating... meaning 19 other quarterbacks were more effiecient than he was. You be the judge on these.

saintfan 01-10-2003 12:37 PM

What does AB have?
 
Well, whodat, you\'re assuming the playing field isn\'t level. I\'m guessing Hokie told you it wasn\'t level huh? You can compare all you want, but you don\'t wanna hear it when I do the same. By the way, Brooks threw 15 INT\'S this year...that\'s not an average of 1 per game. Even MY crappy math is better than yours, but I digress. But I will say that one of the guys that threw more INT\'S than Brooks was Favorite Son Brett Farve...ooops, I forgot, you can compare Brooks with others, but the rest of us can\'t...sorry. I forgot the rule. My bad.

The point is that there is NO WAY IN HELL you\'ll EVER give Brooks any credit...you\'re too damn bullheaded. The fact is the Saints would be in so much dissarray if you were in charge, and I\'m glad to know that you\'re not. If you were calling the shots the personell would change every year. There would be no potential for players to grow together. There would never be anything other than one year contracts, and our sallary cap would be in terrible shape, because you don\'t believe in putting your faith in someone and letting them grow. At least that\'s the vibe I\'m gettin\'.

Might I suggest that you stop trying to convince me how terrible Brooks is. I promise to return the favor in kind and stop trying to convince you he isn\'t so terrible. Fighting this fight with you just isn\'t worth the energy. I\'ll side with Gatorman (whom I disagree with, but have respect for because he\'s willing to see that there might, just might be another side to it and because he\'s willing to concede the fact that there are other problems) and suggest we just move on. I\'d have better luck turning Saddam Christian.

WhoDat 01-10-2003 01:33 PM

What does AB have?
 
I love the blanket statements you make Saintfan. Because I don\'t think Brooks is the guy, then obviously I\'m against giving anyone the slightest bit of credit or room to grow. By that logic then I should reason that you want the entire defense to come back. After all, this was their first year together and they could get better... that\'s what you think right?

We\'re talking about Brooks. I\'ve tried to focus on Brooks. I\'ve asked you to give me reasons why you belive that Brooks will be a good quarterback in the future. List off attributes and skills he had. You haven\'t been able to. You cannot or refuse to answer straight forward questions. You talk about dropped balls and missed blocks, but you haven\'t identified ANYTHING that Brooks does well other than throw the ball real hard.

At leat I can talk about the man intelligently. I can give examples of his, and only his performance. I can state things that I, and others, think he has done well (see post above and in other threads b/c I have given him credit) and things he does not do well. You haven\'t even bent in the slightest to say that Brooks has weaknesses. The only thing you\'ve said is that he made some bad throws after he was hurt. That\'s it huh? Those are the only knocks on Brooks?

You\'re right about one thing - we aren\'t going to convince each other... but I am confident in the fact that I can actually formulate an argument... you can\'t even do that.


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