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WhoDat 01-10-2003 01:59 PM

WhoDat and Saintfan sound off on Brooks
Everyone has his own opinion about Aaron Brooks and this is quite obviously one of the hottest topics on this board. Apparently, Saintfan and I represent the two most opposing views on Aaron. So I suggest that Saintfan and I sound off and each express our opinion about Brooks. Then everyone can at least hear some of the most fervent opinions on both sides of the fence about the Saints starting quarterback.

Now, I do want this to stay clean, so I will suggest some ground rules. I do not know Saintfan as a person, but I am sure he is a bright guy. While I disagree with his opinions about Brooks, I agree with other things he has said, and the bottom line here is that we're all Saints fans.

So, Saintfan, I guarantee that I will not take potshots at your character or at you as a person. Your opinion is just as valid as mine and I want us to be able to debate without attacking one another. Second, let's keep everyone other than Brooks out of this discussion. Other Saints, coaches, back up quarterback, media men, mickey mouse, every other person in the world. This is about Brooks. Let's talk about what we feel he can and cannot do. What do you say?

saintfan 01-10-2003 02:45 PM

WhoDat and Saintfan sound off on Brooks
Agreed, so I guess I\'ll start, but not by listing all Aaron\'s attibutes, but by pleading with the general public to cut this guy some slack. Brooks is not the end all -- save all -- best QB that ever played the game. He has a tendancy to backpedal in the pocket and at times he has forced the ball, this much I\'ll agree on. But is this really about what Brooks cannot do? I\'m trying to think of something he just can\'t do, and I\'m not sure it\'s finding me. I think the reason the Saints got him in the first place is because in Brooks they see a guy who can do most anything. No, he\'s not the best scrambler, doesn\'t throw the best deep ball, and perhaps he should work on his touch pass, but for heaven\'s sake the man is 26 years old, and no one in the Saints organization felt he\'d be the #1 statistical guy in the league after two years or ever I\'m guessing. The man has unlimited potential, and it would be yet another stupid move by the Saints organization if they give up on him before he\'s had a chance to realize it. It doesn\'t take the number one statistical QB to win the superbowl. It takes a QB that can guide his team down the field and score. It takes a QB that doesn\'t make dumb mistakes play after play. Personally, I\'ve seen tons of improvement in Brooks from his first year here to this past season, and I can\'t believe I\'m the only one. Folks wanna Blame the December swoon on Brooks. I\'ll take this oppurtunity to remide everyone that Aaron threw ONE, count \'em, ONE interception in December, and that was a deflected ball.

I agreed to keep it strickty Brooks and I\'ll do that, but no post on this board in response to questioning AB would be complete without stating that, in my humble opinion, lots of people are down on the man based on external factors that were/are out of his control.

If anyone is interested in reading old posts feel free. You\'ll probalby get a nice laugh at myself, whodat, gatorman, and saintz08. We\'ve had some fun the last two days. And oh, the peace offering is recognized and accepted whodat. You just bought yourself a seat at the beer table, and I\'m buying the first round even tho I couldn\'t disagree with you more.

WhoDat 01-10-2003 03:22 PM

WhoDat and Saintfan sound off on Brooks
Glad we could finally get off each other\'s back Saintfan... but I\'m still smarter! ;) Just kidding.

Ok, let me say that again, we agree. This particular organization, and the one that existed when Randy was still around, is one of the better ones that Benson has put together. They are much better judges of talent than we\'ve had here in the past. They never would have brought in a guy like Brooks if they didn\'t see potential.

I concur that when you look at Brooks\' 6-4 200+ pound frame, his strong arm, and his athleticism it is hard not to think this guy has it all. The problem is that, as you well know, quarterbacking is about a lot more than physical talent. In fact, I think you will agree that many of the great quarterbacks weren\'t necessarily the biggest, fastest, strongest, or most athletic of their time.

Herein lies my problems with Brooks. The other things that I don\'t think he has. Sure, he\'ll never be a nobody in this league b/c he has too much physical talent. And you may well be right that he will one day be a super star. One of my problems is that I don\'t think that day will come fast enough for the Saints. He seems to be developing too slowly.

Then there\'s another thing. I don\'t believe that Brooks is well suited for the \"west coast\" offense, which the Saints claim to be running. You said yourself that it doesn\'t always take the best QB to go to the Super Bowl, it takes one that can efficiently and effectively manage the game. I do not think Brooks manages the game well. I do not think he is very efficient. If you would like to hear my reasoning I would be happy to explain. In the meantime, suffice it to say that there are other QBs out there (especially one whose name I promised not to mention, but you know who I\'m thinking about) that can probably manage the game better than Brooks.

Now, I\'m not sure that I would support the Saints if they tried to get rid of Brooks... I guess it would depend on the situation. However, I think that a good \"field general\" (including He Who Cannot Be Mentioned ;) could make this team a contender right now, today. Even with their terrible defense, which I agree is a much much bigger problem than the QB of this team. Brooks needs time to develop and I\'m not sure that is something this league allows for very well.

WhoDat 01-10-2003 03:35 PM

WhoDat and Saintfan sound off on Brooks
Sorry, sorry... let me just add one other thing that came to my mind. I believe that part of the reason we disagree so strongly on this particular point is because of ideological differences.

Certainly I think that a team should constantly look to build upon and improve its infrastructure if you will - it\'s collection of talent - through the draft and free agency. However, I think the way Super Bowl teams come about has changed drastically in the last five or ten years compared to how it used to be.

In the past, teams built dynasties. We all know them and can remember hating them. Today, I think you can certain \"build\" a contender, but you can\'t \"build\" a Super Bowl team. In the past five years there have been teams that have been good every year, but only one, that I can think of, that actually played in the Super Bowl. Look at Tampa or Oakland or even San Fran for more evidence of that (dang it I just broke my own rule... how about a pass on that one?)

The point is that Super Bowl teams just seem to happen. I don\'t remember who said it, I think it may have been you Saintfan, but whoever it was they were right - Super Bowl teams seem magical. Everything just seems to fall into place... and it\'s rarely the \"consumate contenders\" these days that can find that magic - at least it seems that way to me. That\'s why my emphasis is so strongly directed towards the present. I guess I\'d rather win a championship than be \"in contention\" every year. I don\'t know if I see that happening anymore through five years of careful planning and development. It just sort of happens all at once.

saintfan 01-10-2003 04:02 PM

WhoDat and Saintfan sound off on Brooks
While I agree with you on a lot of that, I have to disagree to a degree (I need to find a new word). At the risk of bringing up another team, this one is from a different sport...I know, I know, just bare with me for a paragraph or two.

Take the Braves of the last decade. I\'m a fan, and I\'m not happy with only one World Series, but I\'m happy to know that each year my team is in contention, because once you\'re in the playoffs, it\'s a free for all.

I know the collapse this year (and last) might have some people rolling their eyes at what I\'m about to type, but the Saints are contenders. I haven\'t felt as good about the teams chances since, well, ever, and I give Brooks some serious credit for that. I\'m not so sold on him that I wouldn\'t complain about him from time to time. Heaven knows I rolled my eyes at some of the throws he tried to make this year, but my jaw dropped in total amazement at some of the ones he made too. He can be erratic at times, but any of the greats have had their moments both good and bad. I do think he\'s soley responsible for the Cleveland game, but looking back on this season in years to come I\'ll never be convinced the tank job was his responsibility to shoulder.

Now, while quick turnarounds are popular these days, I still think a team can be built to contend for many years. It takes some solid drafting, key free agents, and sound cap management, but I believe it can be done. Part of that scenario is analyzing talent and making the right decisions, meaning you can\'t sign a QB to a multi-year deal and give up on him too soon. I think in Brooks the Saints have signed the right the trick is not to give up on him too soon. I\'m not suggesting the Saints are \"stuck\", but I think it\'s premature to yank him. I think if they did that they\'d be hurting themsleves and hurting the team.

saintz08 01-10-2003 04:11 PM

WhoDat and Saintfan sound off on Brooks
One point that seems to get overlooked in the fans debate is how did the paid professionals view Aaron Brooks who were not biased by his association .

What I submit are the professional scouting reports on Aaron Brooks in 1999.

Cnn reports from professional scouts .

Grading System
Aaron Brooks | QB | Virginia | ACC
Selected by Green Bay Packers in round 4, pick 36 (#131 overall)
Ht Wt 40 BP SS LS VJ BJ Grade
6\'3\" 203 4.57 - 4.33 - 35.5 10\' 5.45

Scott Halleran/Allsport

He is an athletic and mobile QB with good measurables and good intelligence. He has solid arm strength and can make all the throws necessary. He has really improved in the last two years, but he is a guy that doesn\'t appear to have great discipline in the pocket. In spite of his intelligence, he does not have great patience and seems to scramble a little more than he should when he doesn\'t read a defense. He is a little up and down in his production and doesn\'t always seem to be a real natural QB. The NFL teams that like him will take time to let him develop in his recognition of defenses as his measurables and intangibles are a positive.

Another draft report :

1999 Packer Draft: Aaron Brooks, Quarterback
Virginia/ 6:03.2-200/ Newport News, Virginia

What the scouts are saying . . .

AFC scout: \"He\'s not a detail guy. I get the feeling that Brooks isn\'t a worker or a studier. That scares you for a guy who\'s going to get barely any practice reps and will have to learn in the classroom.\"

NFC scout: \"Maybe there\'s some hope for him as a wide receiver. He\'s a great athlete. Horrible quarterback.\"

-- Bob McGinn

As posters are we really saying anything about Aaron Brooks that has not already been said about him ??

There are reasons Aaron Brooks was a low 4th round pick , and these assesments were made by Professional talent evaluators .

Aaron Brooks was questionable then and he is questionable now ...

saintfan 01-10-2003 04:33 PM

WhoDat and Saintfan sound off on Brooks
Saintz08, I think you forgot to read the rules.

saintz08 01-10-2003 04:56 PM

WhoDat and Saintfan sound off on Brooks
No , I did not forget to read the rules .

The agreement was between Who Dat and Saintsfan .

Not to all that post here .

So I suggest that Saintfan and I sound off and each express our opinion about Brooks.

Terms of agreement fulfilled .

Open post .

saintfan 01-10-2003 05:00 PM

WhoDat and Saintfan sound off on Brooks
Perhaps I misunderstood. Post away with 2 and 3 year old copies of other peoples opinions then. Have fun.

saintz08 01-10-2003 09:01 PM

WhoDat and Saintfan sound off on Brooks
Professional opinions at that .

There seems to be a time warp theory in effect with what some have called the Brookians . Yes , for all those that have been labeled Brooks bashers they have a name for those that think Brooks can do no wrong , Brookians .

If you use stats or analysis from 2 years ago , the Brookians will counter with those are old numbers and he has gotten so much better since then . If you refer to mistakes made now and in comparison to other quarterbacks , they usually refer to the fact he has only been a starting quarterback for 2 years .

Although in this case Brooks still exhibits all the same negatives as on the scouting report and these are usually the posters points . But that was 2 years ago .......

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