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I just wanted to post a topic about Aaron Brooks... Personally I like the Guy. I know we have some fans out there that dont and thats fine. But for some of these people to talk about trading him for Jay :eck25: Feidler... really makes me sick... Come on now who you gonna get if you get rid of AB? There is no one out there and I think the guy is gonna come throu eventually... Give him a chance.. Ok he has made some of the dumbest plays I have ever seen but at the same time he has made some of the best also.... Just dont get some bum in here please...

i agree with you about fieldler but the point isnt so much about his stupid plays to me. its more about his attitude. quite frankly it stinks. before the last game he came out saying how he was a great qb on a good team and how jake was a good qb on a great team. which basically mean that the team is at fault and not the great arron. thats why i say get rid of him/. maybe not next year but in the next year or two.

Ok I agree with you dog... totally... I dont see how he could have said that and it was a dumb comment by him... He has a damn good cast around him.. I mean we are deep at WR and Duece is a beast when not hurt... I think if the D steps up this year his confidence will come up.. Cause I sure dont think that Carolina has a Great cast.. Maybe on D.. but Mussin Muhammed was a scrub before Steve Smith got hurt. I mean in College they didnt even thow to the guy.. He stepped his game up thou... Lets just hope that we keep him another year or two and see how things go..

I agree with you too. Aaron Brooks makes a lot of dumb plays but he still is a much better QB than a lot of the people that are available. Besides, if our defense could keep the other team from scoring 30+ points on us every week, we would win a lot more. And we all saw a completely different D from the Saints in the last few weeks of the season. Unfortunately, some people just don\'t look at the positives at all and as soon as AB screws up they call for his head. Heck did you see Big Ben today? He sucked it up but I bet Pittsburgh fans aren\'t complaining because the D performed as well as the rest of the team. There is more than one player responsible for a teams loss. Too bad the Brooks Bashers don\'t understand that.

Witht he right coaching changes and a few personnel additions we should easily be in the playoffs next year.

And by the way, don\'t bother replyting with comments like \"Pittsburgh fans arent complaining because their team is consistently good\" or \"theyre in the playoffs so they dont need to complain\" BS. That has no bearing on this subject or my post. I am talking about how the TEAM came through for Big Ben and our team (mostly Defense) does not.

OK, and for those who want to play \"Mis Cleo\" in response to my posts...I am 27 so I guess if you\'re older than that I am young. I don\'t think I\'m \"naive\", I like to think I have a rather good amount of experience in several walks of life. That includes my present experinece of being a 5th year Ph.D. student in Biochemistry.

:exclam: And with that one more thing: Aaron Brooks name is Aaron, not Leon. I\'ve seen this quite a bit as of late in several posts. It\'s a shame that a forum discussing football that I have visited for some time now would have people who in my opinion use racist tones. This in itself really makes me not want to visit this site and makes me ashamed to feel as if there are other Saints fans who act in such a way. And trust me...though I am white I know all about racism...I\'m engaged to a black woman (just in case anyone wants to personally question me as for some reason usually occurs with my posts.

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And with that one more thing: Aaron Brooks name is Aaron, not Leon. I\'ve seen this quite a bit as of late in several posts. It\'s a shame that a forum discussing football that I have visited for some time now would have people who in my opinion use racist tones. This in itself really makes me not want to visit this site and makes me ashamed to feel as if there are other Saints fans who act in such a way. And trust me...though I am white I know all about racism...I\'m engaged to a black woman (just in case anyone wants to personally question me as for some reason usually occurs with my posts.

I was gonna ignore this until you got to the \"racist\" bit. I\'m the guy who first made the \"Leon\" comparison (weeks ago), and you\'re the first to complain. So, would you mind explaining what in the heck is \"racist\" about it?

I made the joke shortly after AB\'s comments about how he was a \"great QB on an average team.\" This reminded me of the beer commercial where \"Leon\" is asked if his four fumbles affected the team, and he replies: \"Not if my teammates had jumped on the ball. Let\'s face it, Leon can\'t do everything.\"

If you\'ve ever seen the commercials, you\'ll notice the Leon character is black. Aaron Brooks is black, but if he were purple-freakin\'-polka-dotted the similarity would still be there. The joke was about comments, not skin color.

If you can explain to me why this is \"racist,\" by all means do so. If not, you need to think long and hard before you throw that label at someone.

PS - Congrats on your engagement, it no doubt makes you an expert on race relations. I dated a girl from India for a couple of years, so I guess I\'m ready to negotiate peace with Pakistan...

[Edited on 16/1/2005 by mutineer10]

Sorry, I don\'t sit in front of the TV long enough to see every TV commerical ever created. I apologize for not reading every post created on this web site too and misinterpreting your post. I have to work.

When I saw lots of people calling him Leon and using this in a derogative way, it came across as somewhat racist to me. :exclam: My fiance, who is black, saw these things and felt the same way.

Had I seen the reason for this use of the name \"Leon\" I wouldn\'t have felt that way, it was a natural reaction to the things I was reading. The fact that I know a lot more black men named Leon than white men, combined with the insulting manner of the posts, probably had something to do with my OPINION.

Sorry to take your post out of context. Maybe you shouldn\'t have done the same with mine as I simply stated my opinion. I never said anyone in particular was racist, I only said I saw what in my opinion, were racist tones/language in some posts.

Your sarcastic remarks about my being engaged to a black woman are downright despicable. The only thing I will say is the reason I mentioned it: to make sure everyone knew that I know about racism because I experience it sometimes when I am out with my fiance. I never said anything about making peace with other races. There was no need for the childish sarcasm.

As with your posts about \"Leon\", maybe you should think about how other people will feel about, or interpret, your posts as most people don\'t read every single one, besides the mods.

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Me too, clocked in over 60 hours this week.

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Sorry to take your post out of context. Maybe you shouldn\'t have done the same with mine as I simply stated my opinion. I never said anyone in particular was racist, I only said I saw what in my opinion, were racist tones/language in some posts.

Actually, you said it made you \"not want to visit this site\" and that you were \"ashamed to feel as if there are other Saints fans who act in such a way.\" As the guy who first made the \"Leon\" comment, I was simply taking responsibility for my words - words you deemed \"racist.\"

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Your sarcastic remarks about my being engaged to a black woman are downright despicable. The only thing I will say is the reason I mentioned it: to make sure everyone knew that I know about racism because I experience it sometimes when I am out with my fiance. I never said anything about making peace with other races. There was no need for the childish sarcasm.

You\'re probably right, but do you really think I (as a white guy in Alabama) didn\'t get some cross glances walking around with a girl from India? I was dating her when Sept. 11th happened ... and afterward. Everyone kept looking at her trying to figure out if she was some middle-eastern terrorist. Heck, even my parents hated her. However, I do apologize for the hyperbole. In my defense, I was no happier to be labelled a racist than you were to read what you thought were racist comments.

In any event, I\'ll try and refrain from the \"Leon\" comments from now on. Though I don\'t agree there\'s anything \"racist\" about it - and in fact, I still think it\'s a pretty funny comparison - it is an unnecessary diversion. Seems a little too PC for my taste, but this isn\'t my site and for the sake of the good folks who provide it, I don\'t want my comments to make anyone feel unwelcome.

No need for this to get ugly. Aaron Brooks is Aaron Brooks again, as far as I\'m concerned...

:peace:

Hey, Leon is fine with me. I just never saw that commercial and misunderstood you is all. Now that I know the reason for the name it\'s actually kind of funny and I also don\'t see anything racist about it. And besides I don\'t have the right to make you change it anyway. I appreciate the gesture though.

That\'s one of the reasons I don\'t post often, things can be miscontrued in text in all kinds of manners (especially when all the info to clarify the post isn\'t in one post). I much prefer talking in person. ;)

It\'s all good, alsaints113. Hopefully no hard feelings...

:cheers:

In my opinion, the problem with Brooks is not talent, not statistics, not mistakes, not \"intangibles\". The problem is the OBVIOUS disparity between where Brooks plays in comparison to the rest of the QBs in the league, and where Brooks THINKS he plays in comparison to the rest of the league.

Brooks makes some great plays. Brooks makes some horrible plays. Brooks has mobility. Brooks has little accuracy. Brooks has a strong arm. Brooks can\'t read a defense. I could go on and on with an example of something good and then something bad.

The point is that most QBs in this league with similar \"style\" don\'t consider themselves great, or become offended when the media/sportswriters/fans don\'t group him in with those that really are great. Those other QBs (Plummer, Green, etc.) can recognize their own flaws that take action to deal with them. I suspect that one of the reason Brooks has not evolved as a QB is coaching, but another is the fact that it seems he cannot see himself realistically.

He still throws off his back foot, like he did five years ago. He still has happy feet in the pocket, like he did five years ago. He still can\'t throw the touch pass.... He still can\'t audible for &%@... These things can be practiced and taught if the patently AVERAGE Aaron \"Leon\" Brooks will step back away from the mirror, put down the attitude, and accept that he needs a lot of work before he can become a \"good\" QB, let alone a \"great\" one.

btw, Love the Leon commercials. If you watched the Super Bowl at all in the last three years, you would know who he is. He\'s only one of the most popular commercial figures of all time. My personal favorite is when he hurts his \"psyche\" when the fans boo him and he takes himself out of the game. The coach offers him herbal team, hilarious.

Leon says, \"If they ain\'t payin\', Leon ain\'t playin\'\"

http://leon.budweiser.com/leon_home.html

I was looking for a place to download the Leon commercials so alsaints113 could see a few of them, and I came across this article. In fairness, apparently some people do believe the Leon ads are racist:

http://www.counterpunch.org/zirin12012004.html

Budweiser\'s Racist Commercial
What\'s the Matter With \"Leon\"?
By DAVE ZIRIN

It\'s now the hottest commercial since Clara Peller looked beseechingly upon the world and asked us for the location of \"the beef.\" Thanks to Budweiser, the buzz is all about \"Leon\". \"Leon\" is Bud\'s big joke parody of the modern professional athlete. \"Leon\" won\'t do interviews unless his special dimple is on display. \"Leon\" is far more concerned about looking \"pretty\" than playing well. \"Leon\" is egomaniacal, lazy, and all about the bling-bling. \"Leon\" only speaks in the third person. Oh by the way, \"Leon\" is Black. Well Dave Zirin thinks that the \"Leon\" commercials are pure unfiltered racist crap, and Dave Zirin is going to tell you why.

\"Leon\" is supposed to be a harmless caricature, but of whom? Some say he\'s Philadelphia Eagles wide receiver Terrell Owens. But Owens, for all his celebrated end zone hi-jinks, is an MVP candidate who hasn\'t taken a play off since he entered the league. Others have suggested Minnesota Vikings wide-out Randy Moss. The same Moss who has made multiple pro-bowls and led the Minnesota Vikings to two NFC championship games? Those cleats don\'t fit either.

So who is \"Leon\"? To ask the question is to come close to the answer. Pro sports play two primary roles in our society: they reinforce \"values\" like discipline, hard work, and patriotic obeisance and they also stand as a massive global cash cow--to the tune, according to Business Week, of hundreds of billions of dollars a year. Players like Michael Jordan--who CNN once called \"the ultimate global marketing tool\"--have brought corporate values and profits together in one smiling red, white, and blue package. But in an increasingly polarized country, the symbiosis of profits and the public\'s acceptance of corporate values are coming apart. We live in the sports age of the \"anti-hero\". Young people are increasingly identifying with athletes that seem to tell everybody to go to hell. When Terrell Owens takes over the game with his bizarre touchdown choreography, risking thousands of dollars in fines, he is bypassing the No Fun League to make a direct connection with the fans. When Barry Bonds starts his own web site to stick it to reporters and \"communicate directly with the people who support me\", he earns popularity at the same rate he loses endorsements.

The Tale of AI

But the ultimate anti-hero--the postage stamp of corporate America\'s frantic quest to rectify \"values\" and wealth, is the Philadelphia 76ers\' Allen Iverson. Iverson\'s nickname is AI but there is nothing artificial about him. When AI was a rookie, he schooled Jordan on a crossover dribble and said afterward \"Jordan is not my hero. None of my heroes wear suits.\" As interest in the whip-fast, charismatic guard exploded, Corporate America both drooled and recoiled. To this day, they love the way Iverson\'s jerseys and sneakers fly off the shelves, but can\'t stand the \"baggage\" that comes with him. They love his pedigree as a star Virginia high school quarterback and basketball guard but they hate his teenage prison stint for his involvement in a bowling alley \"race riot\". (His conviction held such a taint of \"southern justice\" that it was highlighted on 60 minutes and the Governor eventually pardoned him.) They want him on the cover of their programs and magazines, but despise his multitudinous tattoos so much they have been known to airbrush them right off his arms.

But the fans love AI\'s every transgressive move--especially because it walks hand in hand with his style of play. Iverson has been voted year in and year out, one of the toughest guys in the league by his peers. He weighs 160 pounds soaking wet, and wouldn\'t be six foot tall in a pair of Mahnolo Blahniks but never shies from contact, getting more bumps, bruises, and floor burns than any player alive. Yet for all his on-court efforts, he also thinks nothing about blasting \"practice\" as a waste of time. Saying to hell with \"practice\" is a shot at the very hard work, discipline and obedience that leagues try to push as the road to success.

\"The Malice in the Palace\"

But corporate America\'s unease with selling sports anti-heroes is reaching new heights in the wake of the Pacers-Piston Fans brawl now being called \"the Malice at the Palace\". Discussions are raging across ESPN and the talk radio spectrum asking if \"the NBA should disassociate with hip hop\" (whatever that means) and whether the influx of players straight out of high school has led to a \"thug life\" mentality in the league. Of course no one is saying that seventeen-year-old Yugoslavian players like Darko Milicic shouldn\'t be adopted (I mean drafted) by teams--just players named Qyntel, Kwame, and LeBron. Like so much in this barely coded discussion of athletes, fans, and violence, it comes down to race. When Yankees pitcher, the very Caucasian Jeff Nelson and utility infielder Karim Garcia pulled a heckling special-ed teacher out of the Fenway Park stands in the 2003 playoffs and pummeled him, this was a \"brawl\". When Roger Clemens threw a splintered bat at Mike Piazza in the World Series, this was explained as Clemens being overly competitive and \"wound too tight\". But when Black athletes are throwing the haymakers, all the language changes. The Pacers/Piston Fans brouhaha becomes--as ESPN is now routinely calling it--a \"riot\".

The intrusion of race is most tragic in the case of the person at the center of the brawl: Ron Artest. As league commissioner David Stern and his corporate backers now try to kick the dirt on Artest--saying he will need to reapply to even rejoin the league next year--fans are starting to show up in stadiums with Artest jerseys. This stems from the anger in the air: anger at racism, anger at poverty, anger at the general hypocrisy of values that cry out against violence on the court while imprisoning millions at home and bombing cities to the stone age abroad.

So who is \"Leon\"? \"Leon\" is corporate America\'s gob of spit in the face of modern Black athletes and anti-heroes. They are striking not only the players themselves, but also us--the fans-for embracing them. We shouldn\'t accept that. Let\'s load \"Leon\" on a bus with Stepin Fetchit, Mammy, Charlie Chan, and that damn Taco Bell Chihuahua--and push it off the pop culture cliff. Until \"Leon\" goes, Guinness will suit me just fine.

Dave Zirin has a book coming out, What\'s My Name, Fool: sports and resistance in the United States (Haymarket Books) comes out in spring 2005.

This is not my opinion, it\'s an article I ran across while trying to find downloads of the Leon commercials. I simply thought it had become relevant to the thread ... it\'s up to the reader to decide what he/she thinks...

[Edited on 16/1/2005 by mutineer10]

leon is the best. those commercials are so funny

i like leon the man. i dont like leon because he is black. if leon was white i would like him just the same. i in no way am attempting to like only fake black athletes doing funny commercials. leon is equally as good being black or white. i married a black woman to make sure i could be closer to leon myself. if my wife was white and i was black and then leon was white i would have married a white woman to try to be closer to leon. hey does that help

I am African American, have dealt with racism, and I found NOTHING offensive in the Leon commercials. I never even thought of any of them as racist. I just LMAO at all of them cause they were funny. They ARE NOT a direct job at any one athlete, they are a microcosm of the selfish nature of NUMEROUS athletes in many sports. To even suggest it is racist is so far off base as to be ridiculous. Stupid stupid stupid. When an athlete makes me first comments(Brooks) we see exactly how much it fits. When Randy Moss says, well there\'s 2 seconds left I can give up now, or when asked about his fine, maybe next time i\'ll shake my d--- or I don\'t need no checks I can pay that with cash, it fits. It fits Brooks to a T, and there is NOTHING racist about it at all. I guess the Miller comercial are biased against ref and are calling them dumb and self serving or the commercials with the chics wrestiling in panties over tastes great less filling means all chics who drink beer jump into pools and strip down and wrestle for male entertainment. Is it racist that 99.99% of the erectile dysfunction commercials have white guys? It is a commercial, I am pretty certain race plays no part in any of them. Lighten up. Brooks is Leon to me and I will always call him so until he shows differently.

saintswhodi that was the point of my post above yours to lighten up. i agreee

saintswho...I agree with you as well....I am also Black(don\'t like the hyphenated description)and when I see these commercials all I do is laugh.........as a matter of fact every Monday night I get together with about 10 of my friends (15 year tradition) and we hope they show these commercials...
Leon is not Black to us..
Just a fool!
I like Brooks....but some of his comments to the media are \"Leonesqe\"

Well, I have seen the Super Bowl the last three years. Chances are I was either relieveing myself or too drunk to remember those commercials. Thanks for the links by the way. As I said before, I didn\'t know the true meaning of the Leon joke but now that I do, I\'d say they\'re quite appropriate.

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When I originally posted that..I was just saying what was bieng said..I personally don\'t think it\'s ever going to happen...

Feidler isn\'t going to carry us to anywhere Brooks can\'t..you now what I mean?..Brooks is traditionally healthier, as Feidler has been down a lot in the past 3 years...and healthy is enough when you talk about two guys with arguably the same level of skill..give me the one who I know will be able to play 16 games...

shadowdrinker i dont think that jay has the same play level as brooks. not that im pulling for brooks after his comments but i wouldnt say that he plays as well as brooks or at the same level

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WURDDD

:thumbsup:

i dont think you can get rid of arron just yet. but hopefully we draft someone and then have him for like two more years to allow the next guy the chance to learn. but he has to go eventually. you cant have someone calling the team good and him great and expect to win