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The race card

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Hey everyone, I certainly did not mean anything offensive by my statements. Only making expanding on a previous statement. If I offended anyone I apologize, we are all here for one thing and one thing only. Geaux Saints!...

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Old 01-22-2005, 05:38 PM   #21
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The race card

Hey everyone, I certainly did not mean anything offensive by my statements. Only making expanding on a previous statement.

If I offended anyone I apologize, we are all here for one thing and one thing only.

Geaux Saints!
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Old 01-22-2005, 06:53 PM   #22
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The race card

i would love to continue this subject on race in another forum. tobias i would like to speak to you about it and have us bounce our own opinions off each other as you may be able to teach me something or i may be able to teach you something. i think that most of us are intelligent on here and can have a discussion on such a subject in a non football forum. we can do it and be objective and intelligent about it. so it would be nice and welcomed. if you dont post something on the other forum i will so that we can start the discussion. i would like to see everyone get involved if you can remain intelligent and not be child like

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Old 01-22-2005, 11:53 PM   #23
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The race card

I thought this issue was over and done with.
America 2005 is the most colorblind time in this nation\'s history. Its also as colorblind as any other nation on this planet.

Racism is dying, but prejudice never will.

Theres a huge difference between the two.
Racism is based on hate.
Prejudice is based on ignorance.
..you don\'t travel much, do you?
As a manager of a import/export business that deals with several overseas clients, yes, I do.
You don\'t think much, do you?
I think very well...
\"dealing with people overseas\" is not the same as living in another country and experiencing people\'s attitudes towards other people...
see? I am Mexican.. I was born in the Yucatan Peninsula... growing up, I had friends that were of mayan origin,mestizo, mulatto, taino, Spaniard, French, Arab, Jewish, African, Chinese, etc... they all looked different from me in some way or another, and I knew of their descendence, but it never dawned on me that they were of a different race or that they were \"not like me\" in a way other than someone being different to me because they had a different shaped nose... I have never had to fill any form that asks me for my race or what ethnic background am I... there\'s no or \"Italian-Mexicans\" or \"Chinese-Mexicans\'.. everybody is \"Mexican\"... no one goas after the \"African-Mexican\" vote... although you always hear politicians talk about the \"indigenous population\", but again, that refers more about a social class...the same person, with a white collar job in the city, is called a \"Mexican\" ...

..that is not to say that there isn\'t any form of discrimination.. but you see it more between social classes ( you see that in the U.S. too )

... this is in line with societal behavior that can be observed in most places in Ibero-America... obviously not everywhere it\'s the same: some places are much more of a melting pot like Brazil, other are pretty racists like Argentina...

..so I can tell you, not only having traveled extensively myslef, but also having lived in different countries for a good period of time, that the U.S. is a long way from being colorblind...

..hey, you never heard anyone refer to Pele as an African-Brazilian soccer player...

oh,and spkb25, absolutely.. if you want to keep on the conversation on the other forum, sure! Maybe an admin can move this one to the other board...




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Old 01-23-2005, 03:32 AM   #24
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The race card

I\'d like to ask a question, but first I\'d like to say that I\'m very glad to see that this thread is still open and everybody in here has remained civil and open-minded. This type of discussion can easily get out of hand, however, I really think it is important for people to talk about these types of things so that they can see the other side. I\'ve already read some things in the above posts that have made me think. So for that, I am proud to be a member of this forum.

Now to my question. How does discrimination fit into the definitions of prejudiced and racist?

You see, I don\'t judge people based on race. I judge people by actions. That doesn\'t mean, though, that I am not aware of stereotypes and that I don\'t notice behaviors that are common to one race or another. People are not the same. They just aren\'t, and that\'s not to say that anyone is better than anyone else, but people are different. Even people within any one race are different. I think it was spkb25 who said equality should be considered with regards to opportunity.

I am here to say that the opportunity is not always the same for everyone. I was the victim of discrimination. I applied for a job with a large corporation that has a location where I live. (I won\'t say who, but you\'ve probably bought gas from them recently) To be considered for the job, you have to take a long standardized test, much like the ACT or SAT. I took the test and scored better than 80% of the other candidates. I also have a B.S. degree, whereas 85% of the candidates did not have a college education. I didn\'t get the job. I found out later from someone in the organization that the company wanted to hire more women and minorities to meet federal quotas. So in this case, even though I was more qualified, I was not hired because of my race and gender. Was this racism on their part or prejudice? Who do I go to? The ACLU, NAACP, Feminists Majority Foundation? Nope, nope, and nope. I just keep looking for a job. (Hopefully soon because I have to start paying back my student loans. HaHa)

Is there still racism in the U.S.? Yes, from more than one side. But I think we are closer to being equal than we were 60 years ago. Maybe one day we\'ll live in a society where people are judged as individuals, but that day isn\'t here yet.

Again, I don\'t mean any harm with my comments, I\'d just like to join in the discussion and offer another perspective.

Oh yeah, just to keep some football in this, why is a football called a pigskin when it\'s made from cow leather?

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Old 01-23-2005, 07:40 AM   #25
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The race card

Ok guys, I realize we\'re treading on some pretty thin ice here and I know that this thread would be better off on the Everything else board but I will keep it here and monitor it often. As long as you keep it civil I\'ll be ok with it. Act like grown up boys and girls and we\'ll be ok.

The only thing that is important to me is, we\'re all members of the same race.....the Human Race.
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Old 01-23-2005, 10:41 AM   #26
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The race card

Turbo, an interesting question.

Discrimination is hard to define because it is a word we use for so many things. I can (and do) discriminate between a good pass and a bad pass (e.g. one that goes backward 25 yards, I deem bad). Thus, some discriminations (of this kind here) are good and some bad; it must be some other feature of them that makes them good or bad.

The kind of discrimination you seem to have in mind is something like, using the definitions above, prejudice about race that is acted on for the purpose of x. I\'m not sure what the x is here. If we knew that, we might be able to say a lot more. What happened to you wasn\'t racism on Danno\'s definition because it wasn\'t done out of hate (or with the intent to harm you because of your skin color), but what it was is a bit unclear (though clearly a discrimination of some kind, as you were judged different from others).

Prejudice, as pretty well everyone here seems to agree, is in itself harmful (as it involves a lack of good evidence), but we all do it (just as we all discriminiate, as in my example of picking out differences among things) because we don\'t have time to gather all the evidence. Thus, I suspect prejudice about things like race will take a long time to go away.

I think it is wise to judge people on the basis of their behaviors; this, it seems to me, will lead to less prejudice (unless we misjudge why someone is doing something, and in turn perhaps misidentifying the behavior itself).

Here is also an interesting thought. I believe it was in the late 60\'s, but \"race\" is no longer a concept that is commonly used by biologists. Genetics and cultural concepts have replaced it. Thus, I am told, in biology, people are identified by their genetic code (something we all have in common), phenotype (the expression of that genetic code - e.g. having blue eyes or being tall), and the social norms (etc) that aid in structuring their beliefs. Thus, \"race\" is not a biological fact in our best scientific theories; it is a throw back to an old, and apparently mostly false, science.

"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks :cool:
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