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Manning up

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; This is a bad post. It is written out of irritation. It may be locked or banned. I thought about it and I cannot bring myself not to write it. In football, there are winners and there are losers. It's ...

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Old 01-23-2005, 06:11 AM   #1
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Manning up

This is a bad post. It is written out of irritation. It may be locked or banned. I thought about it and I cannot bring myself not to write it.

In football, there are winners and there are losers. It's a competitive sport. Fans of football are the same way. We love the game, wish we could be playing it, and many times we run our lives with the same competitive attitude. Sometimes we win and sometimes we lose. Our attitude when we win is as important as our attitude when we lose.

We watch our favorite teams and root for them to win. We also watch them when they lose. Some players and teams man-up (thus the "clever" title of this thread - gotcha, didn't I?) and take the blame when they are wrong and make a mistake. Some players take personal responsibility for losses and poor play. Some players and teams take no responsibility for their mistakes. They blame everything else for the loss (see: Budweiser's Leon).

Fans apparently mimic the players they idolize (i.e. worship). There are some fans that, no matter how absolutely wrong they were about their team - WILL NEVER ADMIT IT. There's always an excuse, something else to blame. Even worse, when other fans predicted the correct outcome, these fans can't help themselves but to try to take away from them. They simply don't have the courage, intestinal foritutude, etc. to simply admit they were wrong. Some players do it too, so it shouldn't be a surprise when their biggest fans emulate them.

Sometimes a player cannot admit they make serious mistakes, rather call themselves a "great player on a bad team" while looking at another player whose record is so much better and calling them a "good player on a great team". Why would they make such a comment? The questions about their own play deserve an answer, not a deflection and a bash on some other player. Similarly, some fans cannot admit when they've made a huge miscalculation and have been WRONG WRONG WRONG.

This thread is not about Peyton, Eli or Archie. This thread IS about manning up and accepting when you are wrong. Some people, like the esteemed members of the family Manning, are capable. Some people, judging by their consistent flip-flopping, deflection tactics, etc, are simply not made of the same stuff.
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Old 01-23-2005, 09:34 AM   #2
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Great post. I for one, won\'t touch it. But then, I get yelled at by the other Mods for not really being a Mod.
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Old 01-23-2005, 09:44 AM   #3
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Preach brother preach. Speak your mind. You were civil. I think we all know there is mainly ONE individual who will defend Leon no matter how bone-headed, pathetic, arrogant, and poor he plays. I pointed out a game to him(Dallas) where NONE of the normal excuses given for Brooks(bad line, bad D, dropped passes) even applied at any point and Leon played horrible. The response, he had a bad game. Huh? Most others who support this no-count half-wit are just afraid there is noone better to take his spot so are afraid of him not being here. The coaches have placed this team in that position of fear for some of their fans. Me personally, I don\'t care if we cut the bum and struggle to 3-13 next year, cause we still won\'t be in the playoffs, as we haven\'t been the last 4 years. But we will have Matt Leinart. I have a hard time understanding how if we are not making the playoffs with Brooks, anyone else can be considered worse. If we don\'t make the playoffs with someone else, isn\'t that the same results? Isn\'t the ultimate goal the playoffs, and not simply posting mediocre records year after year after year? At leats I thought it was. Most teams wanna reach the Superbowl. We wanna struggle with a bum cause we are afraid \"there is noone else better right now.\" Please.
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Old 01-23-2005, 01:45 PM   #4
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Whoodi? He\'s been on board. Or are you talking about Frenzy? I think Frenzy still plays the Switzerland role most of the time....

But, come one, come all.

Feel free to join the Moonshiners, or either of our subsidiaries: The WhoTang Clan, or join that number and become one of \"Those Fans\"!!!!
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Old 01-23-2005, 04:21 PM   #5
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Manning up

Well, I was going to avoid this post at all costs... but it has become just too enticing:

(1) FF, to be honest with you, I understand the sentiment. Sometimes it is hard to see why people make the arguments they do; in the end though, don\'t you think that people benefit from good argument (even if a few people will never change their mind - though, despite the claims of a few, I don\'t think the person being bashed here is like that at all; he has changed his mind on many things, many times, in my experience)?

(2) People around here don\'t make many predictions - sure they guess what our record will be and then they alter their predictions as the season goes on. It isn\'t much of a science, when employed by people who don\'t have access to details that would help to make good predictions. The arguments and analysis given here is much better than these so called predictions. I\'ve learned much more from people who are willing to discuss than those people who go around proclaiming their correctness of prediction and rubbing peoples\' noses in it. Those guys are actually far more annoying IMO than those who argue to the death (depending on how well they argue, of course).

(3) Whodi, don\'t do it buddy. We know you hate Brooks (I can\'t say that we agree on this, but we have had many a good discussion) and aren\'t a fan of the coaching staff (but who is, after all). There is still reason for optimism and hope... :dancing:

(4) Let the sunshine in people... :soleil:
Of course, along with the sunshine, there\'s got to be a little rain sometime...

(5) I\'m always sad when people are frustrated... how about a little granola... maybe that\'ll help?


"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks :cool:
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Old 01-23-2005, 05:18 PM   #6
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My problem with \"MANNING UP\" is there are posters here who predicted we\'d be 8-8 or 7-9 or worse because we didn\'t have a shut-down CB or we didn\'t address this position or that position. When in fact its fairly obvious that coaching was the main problem. I now find very few people who disagree with that.

But unfortunately it doesn\'t keep some from trying to play the \"I told you sunshiners so\" when in fact if they\'d \"MAN UP\", they did nothing of the sort.

I\'ll man up though...

I predicted this team would win 10 games in spite of the poor coaching. Unfortunately I severley underestimated just how bad our coaching was. Our talent isn\'t great, but its a heck of a lot better than 8-8.

How about the rest of you guys manning up?


'Tolerance And Apathy Are The Last Virtues Of A Dying Society'
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Old 01-23-2005, 05:39 PM   #7
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I said they\'d be 9-7 if they didn\'t improve the secondary. I guess I was wrong about that.

Again, I restate my view that this prediction stuff isn\'t very important when compared to good argument and analysis.
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Old 01-24-2005, 08:30 AM   #8
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I said 9-7, back then. My opinion was because LBs are the key to stopping the run and we didn\'t (and still don\'t) have any that I would call good. Our rookies really stepped up at the end and they may bloom into what I am looking for.

I also protested the lack of picking up a corner. I dogged out Thomas, calling him a good number 2 on most teams. I may have overestimated him. Glad to see Brown step it up a bit, though he is still question mark even for a #2 on a lot of teams. McKenzie is the real deal. Just sad we didn\'t get him sooner.

I complained bitterly about our draft (hated it, BIG TIME), and I relent on that somewhat. Howard looks like he\'s leaving us, so the Smith pick now seems wise. Henderson never saw the field and that\'s a problem considering how high a pick we wasted on him. Karney, Watson, Bock-man all impressed me. So, now at the end of the season, the draft looks good. At the time we picked them last year, I was furious because they did not address our needs.

I believed that this year was the last I was willing to give Haslet. My thoughts have not changed, and I think he needs to go. Venturi staying is by far the worst news, however.

I didn\'t have definite feelings about Brooks at the beginning of the season. I would do almost anything to be rid of him now. I would even let Bouman QB for a year and take another losing season to get that poison off the team. My biggest fear is that his attitude is rubbing off on Deuce.

That\'s my \"Manning up\". Those are my opinions, as of now. May change with new information, but that\'s how I feel now and a summary of how I felt then.

\"The AB brand of TP will hurt your O-ring.\" - BlackandBlue

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Old 01-24-2005, 09:18 AM   #9
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Manning up

I didn\'t have definite feelings about Brooks at the beginning of the season. I would do almost anything to be rid of him now. I would even let Bouman QB for a year and take another losing season to get that poison off the team. My biggest fear is that his attitude is rubbing off on Deuce.
Watch out saying you aren\'t satisifed with Brooks. Don\'t you realize we can\'t get his \"talent\" elsewhere right now? Gasp, we might not even make the playoffs if he wasn\'t here!!
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Old 01-24-2005, 09:44 AM   #10
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