Argument against this?

halloween 65 · 04-13-2015, 06:28 AM

Originally Posted by RaginCajun83

Under Loomis/Peyton the Saints seldom trade down, most times they trade up

And that has been the problem, trading out of 13 statigically could net us another player in the mid 2nd to early 3rd where there will still be value players to be had. Each year it is like a feeding frensy at certain positions then another and so on. If we are in a position in the top 3 rounds with two 1st say 25 and 31 and now sitting on two 2nd and two thirds with multiple picks in the 5th thru 7th we will be able to manuever to whatever player we choose or set up multiple picks for next season, thats how the Patriots do each year to fill needs. Even at 44 a team wanting a player will give their 1st next year repeat the process next season and so on. The Patriots are smart and in contintion every year because of solid players using the draft to their advantage.

spkb25 · 04-13-2015, 07:04 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisXVI

You guys do know who our GM is right? Do you really think he's magically going to get conservative with the draft? Loomis trades up... Even when he doesn't have the extra draft picks to make easier. I don't think we trade up from 13... But we're using that extra 3rd round pick to help us move up from 31 or 44.

That's a good possibility too

SmashMouth · 04-13-2015, 08:38 AM

As previously said, been there and tried that. None of them can you definitively say that it was a home run and the absolute right thing to do; in fact really the exact opposite, more of a disaster, the latest of which Ingram can't be characterized as that, but still not a home run. The more numbers we get, the better the chance to hit on a player or two. It's worked for the Patriots, Baltimore, and Seattle. And there is a compensatory picks side benefit, as well as a more cap friendly roster. FO obviously has to perform their due diligence prior to the draft.

So if anything in this draft, move down if our top 10 does not fall down to us, and pick up more picks, maybe even an extra second or third round pick.

sfruge26 · 04-13-2015, 08:43 AM

If by some miracle we could move up for Williams without giving up a draft pick; say, by moving Cam Jordan; I'd be game for moving up. Cam is a good player, but he either isn't giving us the production he could, or he's not the best scheme fit imo.

spkb25 · 04-13-2015, 09:09 AM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

As previously said, been there and tried that. None of them can you definitively say that it was a home run and the absolute right thing to do; in fact really the exact opposite, more of a disaster, the latest of which Ingram can't be characterized as that, but still not a home run. The more numbers we get, the better the chance to hit on a player or two. It's worked for the Patriots, Baltimore, and Seattle. And there is a compensatory picks side benefit, as well as a more cap friendly roster. FO obviously has to perform their due diligence prior to the draft.

So if anything in this draft, move down if our top 10 does not fall down to us, and pick up more picks, maybe even an extra second or third round pick.

How many times under SP have we moved up for a player in the first round?

SmashMouth · 04-13-2015, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by spkb25

How many times under SP have we moved up for a player in the first round?

In reverse order:
SP
Brandin Cooks - Promising but jury is still out
Mark Ingram - Did not get value, but not a bust
Sedrick Ellis - Total Bust
Hazbeen
Jammal Brown - Did not get value
Jonathan Sullivan - Total Bust
Charles Grant - Did not get value
Mike Ditka
Ricky Williams - Did not get value
Chris Naole - Did not get value

Brandin Cooks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Brandin Cooks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of New Orleans Saints first-round draft picks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of New Orleans Saints head coaches - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
List of New Orleans Saints head coaches - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Plenty of head scratchers in that list...

halloween 65 · 04-13-2015, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by spkb25

How many times under SP have we moved up for a player in the first round?

How many times have we traded players under Payton ? Maybe he finally can see that the route they have taken and the outcome could have been avoided. Take Cooks for example(I like the guy but a 1st and 3rd) when we could have traded down and picked up Matthews and had another pick. Graham for Unger and the 31st were kind of out of character for Payton. 7-9 I feel lit a fire under Paytons butt what is better than that opened his eyes.

RaginCajun83 · 04-13-2015, 10:04 AM

IIRC Brees and Cooks were the only two players that were NOT on the trading block when free agency started

RaginCajun83 · 04-13-2015, 10:06 AM

Looking back, Ditkas was insane or just cashing a paycheck or both. WTH trading up for Naole, the Williams deal I can at least rationalize in my head but this deal makes no sense what so ever

CheramieIII · 04-13-2015, 10:29 AM

I would rather have 2 first round picks and a second then only one first

04-13-2015, 06:28 AM	#31
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: Argument against this? Originally Posted by RaginCajun83 Under Loomis/Peyton the Saints seldom trade down, most times they trade up And that has been the problem, trading out of 13 statigically could net us another player in the mid 2nd to early 3rd where there will still be value players to be had. Each year it is like a feeding frensy at certain positions then another and so on. If we are in a position in the top 3 rounds with two 1st say 25 and 31 and now sitting on two 2nd and two thirds with multiple picks in the 5th thru 7th we will be able to manuever to whatever player we choose or set up multiple picks for next season, thats how the Patriots do each year to fill needs. Even at 44 a team wanting a player will give their 1st next year repeat the process next season and so on. The Patriots are smart and in contintion every year because of solid players using the draft to their advantage. TwistedTiger likes this.

04-13-2015, 07:04 AM	#32
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,057	Re: Argument against this? Originally Posted by ChrisXVI You guys do know who our GM is right? Do you really think he's magically going to get conservative with the draft? Loomis trades up... Even when he doesn't have the extra draft picks to make easier. I don't think we trade up from 13... But we're using that extra 3rd round pick to help us move up from 31 or 44. That's a good possibility too

04-13-2015, 08:38 AM	#33
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 36,987 Blog Entries: 29	Re: Argument against this? As previously said, been there and tried that. None of them can you definitively say that it was a home run and the absolute right thing to do; in fact really the exact opposite, more of a disaster, the latest of which Ingram can't be characterized as that, but still not a home run. The more numbers we get, the better the chance to hit on a player or two. It's worked for the Patriots, Baltimore, and Seattle. And there is a compensatory picks side benefit, as well as a more cap friendly roster. FO obviously has to perform their due diligence prior to the draft. So if anything in this draft, move down if our top 10 does not fall down to us, and pick up more picks, maybe even an extra second or third round pick. halloween 65 likes this.
	Last edited by SmashMouth; 04-13-2015 at 08:48 AM..

04-13-2015, 08:43 AM	#34
sfruge26 Rookie Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 16	Re: Argument against this? If by some miracle we could move up for Williams without giving up a draft pick; say, by moving Cam Jordan; I'd be game for moving up. Cam is a good player, but he either isn't giving us the production he could, or he's not the best scheme fit imo.
sfruge26 Rookie Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 16

04-13-2015, 09:09 AM	#35
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,057	Re: Argument against this? Originally Posted by SmashMouth As previously said, been there and tried that. None of them can you definitively say that it was a home run and the absolute right thing to do; in fact really the exact opposite, more of a disaster, the latest of which Ingram can't be characterized as that, but still not a home run. The more numbers we get, the better the chance to hit on a player or two. It's worked for the Patriots, Baltimore, and Seattle. And there is a compensatory picks side benefit, as well as a more cap friendly roster. FO obviously has to perform their due diligence prior to the draft. So if anything in this draft, move down if our top 10 does not fall down to us, and pick up more picks, maybe even an extra second or third round pick. How many times under SP have we moved up for a player in the first round?

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04-13-2015, 09:47 AM	#37
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: Argument against this? Originally Posted by spkb25 How many times under SP have we moved up for a player in the first round? How many times have we traded players under Payton ? Maybe he finally can see that the route they have taken and the outcome could have been avoided. Take Cooks for example(I like the guy but a 1st and 3rd) when we could have traded down and picked up Matthews and had another pick. Graham for Unger and the 31st were kind of out of character for Payton. 7-9 I feel lit a fire under Paytons butt what is better than that opened his eyes.

04-13-2015, 10:04 AM	#38
RaginCajun83 Hou Saints Fan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Houston, Tx Posts: 5,050	Re: Argument against this? IIRC Brees and Cooks were the only two players that were NOT on the trading block when free agency started

04-13-2015, 10:06 AM	#39
RaginCajun83 Hou Saints Fan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Houston, Tx Posts: 5,050	Re: Argument against this? Looking back, Ditkas was insane or just cashing a paycheck or both. WTH trading up for Naole, the Williams deal I can at least rationalize in my head but this deal makes no sense what so ever

04-13-2015, 10:29 AM	#40
CheramieIII Fan Since 1967 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Nomad Posts: 7,457 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Argument against this? I would rather have 2 first round picks and a second then only one first RaginCajun83 and brees84 like this.

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