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How long does it take to build a champion?

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Kool, I never ignore you my man. We HAVE discussed your points in another thread and the INTENT of this discussion was to talk about building a champion. It broke down along the way and I will give you one ...

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Old 01-25-2005, 03:53 PM   #21
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How long does it take to build a champion?

Kool, I never ignore you my man. We HAVE discussed your points in another thread and the INTENT of this discussion was to talk about building a champion. It broke down along the way and I will give you one guess where. Now, if I feel like we are spitting on a fire trying to put it out by dancing around the qb issue and that HINDERS OUR DRIVE FOR A CHAMPIONSHIP, it\'s still in the line of the thread. I also stated what is gonna heppen while we are trying to build this team through the draft and free agency and that one position gets ignored, yet it has really been the only constant and we are mediocre.

Sorry to say my man, but I am over the playoff win. Trent dilfer has a Superbowl, so by that equation he should have a free ticket to wherever he likes right? He coudl come here and noone should have any argument to the contrary cause he was the qb of a Superbowl winning team right? Uh-uh, no way. This is a what have you done for me lately league and Leon has done ZERO, Zip, zilch, Nada since he got to start due to an injury to the 7-4 starter. AS I said before, we have been mediocre ever since. That one playoff win holds zero weight with me and I feel he has ridden it too long now. SO if you wanna jump to the original discussion I started and explain to me how dancing around with other positions while ignoring that one will get us to a title, I am glad to hear it. What happens when Joe leaves or retires? Are you still confident in AB? What if he has to learn not one but TWO new offenses in consec years? Still confident? What if we lose offensive players due to cap issues or their wanting to go elsewhere? Like I said, changing 3 are 4 players on D, some of them being rookie, isn;t gonna move us from 32nd to 22nd. Changing the qb will promote better team chemistry though, and that is as important as \"talent.\"
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Old 01-25-2005, 03:57 PM   #22
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How long does it take to build a champion?

I remember being cramped in the bucket seats of my mother\'s Ford LTD Station Wagon (a woodie back in the 60\'s) having, what my brother loathingly referred to as, \"Duh loves Prove-It\" arguments with my 2nd grade carpool girl-nemisis.

I couldn\'t have a discussion without the proof in front of me (and even then suspicious of it being doctored) and she knew everything, hence \"Duuuuhhhh....\"

I had really high hopes for this thread, but the nightmare of 7 year olds squabbling has ruined it for me. Great try Whodi. One day we won\'t get bogged down by ignorance or immaturity.

I think that the fragility inherent in humans playing a high speed contact sport necessitates having a backup plan. If Brooks were to go down, what do the Saints look like? What will be their personality/capability? I wonder if there even is a backup plan given the front-office decisions and coaching moves. Rebuilding could be a rediculous accident away this summer (eg Vick in 2003). Why can\'t the chess pieces be positioned like New England? Is this game that tough?


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Hobbes: "Common lament."
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Old 01-25-2005, 04:02 PM   #23
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How long does it take to build a champion?

Sure Billy - split hairs. You can\'t justify statements to suggest that the team IS behind Brooks. There has been player after player, incident after incident, article after article, questioning Brooks. You know it, you\'ve admitted it. So instead of challenging the intention and spirit of the post - i.e. AB is on thin ice with a number of people in the org - you split hairs. OK, congratulations.

I guess you also believe that Bill Clinton \"never had sexual relations with that woman...\"

Sometimes Billy, you have to read between the lines. It\'s one thing to read into a single event, or even a couple, and make bold statements about what they mean. It\'s another thing all together to make a broad statement based on a variety of parallel events.

Let\'s put it another way.

1. Do you think there are people within the org. that question whether AB is right for the Saints?

2. Do you think there are players who question AB?

3. Do you think there is any reason to believe that AB may not be right?

4. Can you at least understand, even if you don\'t agree, how a reasonable person could weigh all of the stats, first-hand accounts (games), comments, rumors in the media, etc. etc. etc. and believe that AB is not right?

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


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he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"
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Old 01-25-2005, 04:07 PM   #24
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How long does it take to build a champion?

In the interests of providing an answer to WhoDi\'s title.

One good offseason if you have the skill positions in place.

Two offseasons if you can fix the skill positions in free agency.

Three offseasons if you have to draft a WR or QB.
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Old 01-25-2005, 04:11 PM   #25
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How long does it take to build a champion?

Okay BMG, do we have the skill positions in place? Can all the needs be fixed in free agency and do we have the $$$ to do it? I don\'t think we need a wr this year but do you think it will hurt to draft one in the 3rd round this year? Just asking for your opinions. Also, if we can\'t fix all the needs in free agency and the draft so our skill positions are not in place, does that one year stretch to two? Also, if qb is a skill position and that position is questionable, will it help or hurt the process?
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Old 01-25-2005, 08:55 PM   #26
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How long does it take to build a champion?

Okay BMG, do we have the skill positions in place? Can all the needs be fixed in free agency and do we have the $$$ to do it?
As I see it we have a 2 year window with Horn and the window is closing. There are 2 ways of looking at this from where I\'m standing.
1. The skill positions are all solid and we can make a championship run in the next 2 years if we fix the defense.
2. We\'re weak at WR and QB and we aren\'t going to get it done in the next 2 years.

I fall into group 2. I\'m not sure if we can fix everything in free agency this year, but on the plus side I think we are in excellent cap shape, so we should be able to make some big moves.

I don\'t think we need a wr this year but do you think it will hurt to draft one in the 3rd round this year? Just asking for your opinions.
If a very good WR prospect fell that far, then maybe. Depends on what we do with free agency. If we follow the Haz and Loomis pattern we won\'t do anything noteworthy in free agency, so we probably have no business drafting a WR that high.

if we can\'t fix all the needs in free agency and the draft so our skill positions are not in place, does that one year stretch to two?
Depends on the skill positions and the personalities of the players you plug in. For example, if you could draft a WR who plays like Clayton did for Tampa, then you could be a contender now. But if you pick a player like Reggie Williams, then you have to wait.

if qb is a skill position and that position is questionable, will it help or hurt the process?
Seems like it would slow it down.

My thought is: Joe Horn is aging. He\'s played hurt (spectacularly by the way) for 2 seasons now. I hope that Horn can play at a high level for 2 more years. I think we lose Pathon this year. I think Stallworth becomes a solid #2 next year. Henderson is a mystery. I think we\'re weak here.

Deuce is in his prime. We need him back in 1500 yard form. But I think we\'re OK here.

So that leaves us 2 years to make a move. I figure that we could be very competative next year if everything works just right.

So the BMG fantasy is:
1. Find a way to deal Howard for picks and or a player and a pick. This is a risk, but teams always give too much for pass rushers. I\'d try and deal him to Dallas or Detroit for their #1.

2. Deal Brooks for picks and or a pick and a player. Face it, he has the greatest trade value of anyone on our team, is in his physical prime and is about to cost us serious money. I\'d try and shop him and our 2nd rounder to Saban for the #2 overall. If Saban isn\'t going to bite, then I\'d try and shop him to San Francisco or Cleveland.

3. Do whatever it takes to sign Ryan Diem, Seth Payne and Ed Hartwell.

4. Try and sign someone like Mike McMahon to come in at QB.

5. If we can get the #2 pick from Miami, draft Derrick Johnson and laugh all the way to the bank. With Johnson, Harwell and Watson, the LB corps is fixed.

6. If we can\'t get high enough to get Johnson, then try and get high enough to get Jammal Brown or Alex Barron to come in at LT.

7. Draft Thomas Davis at our #16 pick.

8. Draft Andrew Walter, QB, Arizona St sometime on the the first day.

9. Switch the offense to ball control and rely on a stingy defense to get us into the playoffs while the new QB learns the offense.

I figure this would at least make us competative within the time frame that Horn is still elite.

If we keep Brooks, then I think we should make a move on Plaxico Burress and deal Horn because we won\'t be championship material before Joe loses steps.

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Old 01-25-2005, 09:30 PM   #27
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How long does it take to build a champion?

The thing to remember also is that more and more , The College game , plays like the pro\'s..they mimmick the same schemes..and strategies that coaches in the NFL use today

Back in the 80\'s..it was hard..really hard to find a Rookie that could come in and start right away..or even in two years...

Due to the hightened awareness of College coaches..( some who have NFL experience), The players coming out in the modern day drafts are really..good players...and alot of them start thier first year...

It isn\'t as difficult to rebuild a team nowadays as it was 20 years ago...These kids are better trained..in better physical shape..and just more prepared to go to a team..and make a difference., They\'re smarter..and can play thier position , at times, up to NFL standards,,while they\'re still in College...

So..I won\'t throw away our chances of having a much improved Defense this coming year...Infact..if the Personel people can make the right moves..We really stand a good chance of success this year...
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Old 01-26-2005, 05:08 AM   #28
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How long does it take to build a champion?

I\'m sick of it being implied that anyone who thinks we can win with Brooks is an idot. I am not an idot, and I think we can win with Brooks!
:rollinglaugh: What the hell is an idot?

Sorry JKool, that almost rivals the \"our team looks like carp\" thing...

And I\'m not gonna quote him, but I\'m voting BMG as our new GM.

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Old 01-26-2005, 08:51 AM   #29
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How long does it take to build a champion?

Just for old times sake....



[Edited on 26/1/2005 by BrooksMustGo]
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Old 01-26-2005, 09:07 AM   #30
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How long does it take to build a champion?

I\'m sick of it being implied that anyone who thinks we can win with Brooks is an idot. I am not an idot, and I think we can win with Brooks!
:rollinglaugh: What the hell is an idot?

Sorry JKool, that almost rivals the \"our team looks like carp\" thing...
And I\'m not gonna quote him, but I\'m voting BMG as our new GM.
I have just 3 words for you..
I ain\'t a idot!
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