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this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Why not? Look at David Carr his first year compared to his second. He got creamed every game and look what it did to his confidence in the pocket. Look at the progress he has made from year one to ...

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Old 01-29-2005, 10:30 PM   #51
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Why not? Look at David Carr his first year compared to his second. He got creamed every game and look what it did to his confidence in the pocket. Look at the progress he has made from year one to year two. Warner doesn\'t have it anymore, no point leaving your future on the bench when he could receive quality time on the field.

Eli is going to be a great quarterback, it\'s in his genes and he showed flashes of it throughout the season. He had a great college career also. One reason why he struggled so much was because Toomer was out for most of the season along with Shockey being hurt from time to time. Look at the receiver\'s he was throwing to at year\'s end. Can anyone name 3 of them without looking it up? I think not.

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Old 01-29-2005, 10:36 PM   #52
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I think you kinda missed the point. Being from NO is not going to make him great. But, you would think, that someone who is a Saint fan would kinda like the idea of having a hometown kid playing for them.

The thing is, I am not alone in my opinion of Eli. The GM of the NYG\'s gave up a bunch of draft picks to get him....but, what do they know. They probably should have checked with you before they made such a drastic mistake, right. Let\'s see, now what did we give up to get AB....maybe a cup of coffee and a doughnut...I can\'t remember. I wonder what we could get for him now?

I think you also missed the point of my other thread, also, but, that doesn\'t surprise me. I was merely pointing out that having the luck of the draw and growing up near NO, I was destined to be frustrated by a franchise that has done nothing but established itself as the worst franchise in professional sports history. If not for these guys providing me with someone else to follow, I would never be anything but disappointed. You can call it hero worship if you want...I don\'t have a problem with being called that when the person involved is someone the caliber of Archie Manning. Worshiping AB, on the other hand, now that is frightening.

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Old 01-29-2005, 11:02 PM   #53
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I didn\'t miss your point in the \"Thank You\" thread. I may have missed your point in the above post and made am incorrect correlation.

So, maybe the Giants are just desparate enough to take a chance on Eli even though they\'re not sure he\'s all that. They overpaid either way which indicates to me they were looking for star power as much as a good QB. I\'m not leaving anything to the \"professionals.\" 31 of them fail to win the superbowl every year...just like me. I\'m not alone in my opinion of Eli eiither so we\'re even.

You did, however, say that anyone who didn\'t want the Saints to get Eli isn\'t a true fan and doesn\'t know anything about football. To back this up 3 of your 4 arguments were hometown and lineage. I personally disagree with bringing in a local boy just cuz he\'s local.

For example, we had gubanitorial elections a year or so ago and there was a guy running that was from Northeast La, like me. Now, I wasn\'t going to vote for him because I believed there were better cnadidates available. Many of my friends though were going to vote for him. When asked why they\'d reposnd \"cuz he\'s from up here.\" To me, that\'s a rediculous way to pick a leader just as it\'s rediculous to pick a football player based on his hometown. It may sell tickets,but that\'s all.

Lastly, I hope you weren\'t accusing me of being an AB worshipper. I\'ve spent plenty of time pointing out his problems and deficiencies. I just don\'t get to do it because there are so many bashers it\'s not needed.

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Old 01-29-2005, 11:25 PM   #54
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I think it is pretty ridiculous to compare professional football to politics. I don\'t see too many people shelling out a hundred bucks to go sit in congress and cheer them on.

It is just my opinion, Scotty about the Saint fan thing. You see, there is no doubt in my mind that I am a Saint fan, hard core. Yeah, I know that I post a lot of negativity, but what good is there to say about the franchise. That doesn\'t mean that I won\'t be sitting right there every game next year, as always. You see, that is the reason that I would make such a statement. I can\'t imagine anyone being a Saint fan and not liking the idea of having Eli as a Saint....it goes all the way back to Archie, my hero, as you would say. But Archie is \"my hero\" because he was a Saint, and before that, a Rebel at Ole Miss. Why would I prefer someone from Virginia that has become an egotistical maniac over Eli. Yes, I am biased for my region of the country...I guess that\'s not the way it works nowadays. I would challenge you to give me one good reason why I should prefer to keep AB over Eli. Are we still riding the wave of the one playoff win. I will admit, that was huge, very huge, and like I stated before, at the time I was ready to write-in AB for president. A lot has happened since then, and not much of it has been good. But, look, I apologize. I should not have stated that you couldn\'t be much of a fan if you would prefer AB over Eli. I would have taken exception to that, myself, if I were you. I just hope you can half-way see where I am coming from. It is fine with me if we just agree to disagree on this particular topic.

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Old 01-29-2005, 11:54 PM   #55
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I would challenge you to give me one good reason why I should prefer to keep AB over Eli
I\'ve got 9 reasons and none of them are playoff wins. AB has proven that he can quarterback a team to nine wins. Eli has not. Let me be clear...I do not know that Eli will not be a good QB. There are many experts who would say he wasn\'t worth a #1 overall pick and wont be Peyton\'s second coming. We\'ll just have to see, but we have seen Aaron get 9 wins and 8 twice with a horrible D in tow. That should mean that even as stupid as he plays, if we had a better D we should expect 10 wins. Just my opinion.

As for the politics reference, it wasn\'t a comparison but an illustration. You may find it rediculous, but I find it rediculous to attach added value to a player simply because of where he\'s from or who his family is.

Let me put it this way. If we could quanitify Eli into # of wins, say 9 per year, and we had an opportunity to get a 10 win per year QB (anybody but AB.) I get the feeling you still take Eli just cuz he\'s from N.O. and Archie\'s son and give up that win each year. Wouldn\'t you?

It may be rediculous but I want the guy who\'s going to produce more wins.

Let\'s not agree to disagree....that takes all the fun out of the debate.
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Old 01-30-2005, 12:19 AM   #56
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Joe, Nice to meet you dude. But if you don\'t think a qb who would have won MVP if not for Peyton Manning with his best weapon hurt half the year is better than AB, you are in too deep for me man. Enjoy the upcoming season dude.
Whodi, the funny thing is that if I were to come in here and use AB\'s stats to help argue how good he is, you\'d quickly refer to the team\'s record and say something like \"he\'s still a .500 QB\". Yet you wanna use Daunte\'s MVP-like stats to try to convince me how much better he is than AB, when he also finished the regular season at .500 and didn\'t even earn his way into the playoffs. Furthermore, you forget that AB\'s best weapon (Duece) was hurt for MORE than half of the season. I guess that counts for absolutely nothing in your book...


Answer these questions for me Whodi:

Between Cullpepper and Brooks, who has a season inwhich he threw more INTs than TDs?

Who has two seasons inwhich he threw less than 20 TDs?

Who has posted the worst record while starting for a full season?

Who is more durable and has started every game since he took over the starting position?

Who has posted more wins over the last 3 seasons?


I think the answers may astonish you.
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Old 01-30-2005, 12:23 AM   #57
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There is absolutely no doubt that being Archie\'s son and being from NO is a huge part of why I said what I said. Isn\'t that what being a fan is all about? This is not some second-rate player we are talking about here, however. This is a kid that has broken just about every record that there was to break at Ole Miss. Don\'t tell me that that is not saying much, when you talk about players before him like Charlie Conerly, Glenn Griffing, Jake Gibbs, Norris Weese, and, yes Archie himself. This is the overall first player picked in the NFL draft we are talking about, and it wasn\'t me that called the Chargers and said, \"hey, man, I think you should pick Eli.\" It also wasn\'t me that called the Giants and said, \"Hey, I think you should trade away next years first roudn pick to get Eli away from the Chargers...because I like him so much.\" You say there are experts out there that didn\'t think he was worth a first round pick...who are these experts you are referring to, or did you just kinda pull that out of the air? I could counter that with people, such as John Gruden that said that they thought he was more talented than Peyton. I don\'t think your argument would hold much water if you were sitting on the panel with Bradshaw, Howie, JB, and the rest. In fact, I think they would probably laugh you right off the stage. I mean, have you really given much thought to what you are saying here. And, finally, you give AB so much credit for being a QB that has won nine whole games in a season. Only nine. I would think that that would be a negative thing to say about him...but, that\'s just me.

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Old 01-30-2005, 01:23 AM   #58
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Nice try Buddens. Has AB ever thrown 39 TDS in a season? Those stats you found were hilarious. Way to pick and choose. Now let\'s get to the important stats that matter. CAREER PASSER RATING - AB 81.5 or some such nonsense. CULPEPPER - 93.2. I wonder who is better? Daunte has 129 TDS and 74 INTS since 2000. AB has 106 and 67. Hhhmmm think I will take the 23 more TDS. AB - 16274 yards since 2000 Daunte - 18598. Edge Daunte again. Daunte 2329 yards RUSHING with 28 TOUCHDOWNS. AB 1129 RUSHING yards with 11 TDS. Yeah, I can see why you would pick AB over Daunte. That is just ridiculous. Dude please give it up cause this is too one-sided. You would get laughed off any other forum on the planet for saying you would take AB over Daunte. I would put money on that. AB can\'t hold Daunte\'s jock. The clincher, Culpepper also has more playoffs wins than AB and has been to a championship game. Dude, just come off it.
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Old 01-30-2005, 09:15 AM   #59
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Isn\'t that what being a fan is all about?
I guess you\'ll have to tell me. You\'re the one defining what a \"true fan\" is and is not, remember?

who are these experts you are referring to, or did you just kinda pull that out of the air?
If I find some time this afternoon I\'ll go look up some old articles where the review of Eli wasn\'t as glowing as the Eli-lovers would like. I did post that only from my memories of last year\'s conversations so right now it is kinda out of the air. Do you have a link to your Jon Gruden paraphrase or are you just pulling that out of the air?

Only nine.
Which was how many more than Eli? You admit that you want him here for other reasons than his playing but wont admit that those very reasons might cause you to value him more than you should. Right now, he is nothing but potential. I know he didn\'t start the whole year, but what excuse are you gonna give me when he doesn\'t make 9 in \'05?
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Old 01-30-2005, 09:33 AM   #60
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Whodi, the funny thing is that if I were to come in here and use AB\'s stats to help argue how good he is, you\'d quickly refer to the team\'s record and say something like \"he\'s still a .500 QB\". Yet you wanna use Daunte\'s MVP-like stats to try to convince me how much better he is than AB, when he also finished the regular season at .500 and didn\'t even earn his way into the playoffs.
JB...I like the way you think, but you can\'t straighten these guys out. They blame Brooks for EVERYTHING...EVERYTHING...and it only makes sense to those card-carrying members of the \"anybody but Brooks\" club.
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