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LongTimeFan 02-02-2005 01:45 PM

The state can't afford paying
 
I think that the state just can't afford to meet Benson's demands, he's asking for an awful amount of money from us.
His demands is hurting the hotel market in N.O, some people just won't go to N.O and rent a hotel with the higher prices as they are now.
The state had to borrow 7 million (to go toward 15 million we owed him) dollars to to give to Benson because he says he's not making money, now you can beleive that crap if you want to but I choose not to,
Benson bought the Saints for something like 72 million and his team is worth 500 million. one reason it's worth so much is because of us, the fans who pile up in the dome even if the Saints are horrible, fans as myself go to the dome to have a goodtime, meeting fellow fans which I enjoy as much as the game, personally I think Benson is selfish and is asking to much from the state, he has been threathing to take his team from here for some time, if that would ever happen (which I don't) football wouldn't be the same for me and alot of other fans but at the same time he's asking the state to go broke just for him to get the money that he thinks he deserves which he doesn't, the best thing that could happen to the Saints and the state is if someone would buy the Saints from Benson that way we could move on and Benson wouldn't be broke anymore being he would get 500 million. (not a bad profit)
I have been to the dome over 60 times and everytime I go there I say what a nice place this is, the Saints have something to be proud of playing here with a packed house but Benson doesn't see it that way, as I said in another post I met Benson years ago and he didn't appear to be like he is now, he seemed to be happy with his team, his fans and happy to be here, he's now this selfish, greedy owner.
Do you all think that the state should go broke in order to make Benson Happy?
I vote first..no
We along with Benson will have to find another way to close this deal.

GumboBC 02-02-2005 02:01 PM

The state can't afford paying
 
There\'s 2 sides of the story here...

State of Louisiana: It\'s a broke state who is being asked to pay a lot of money to keep the Saints here. Mainly because Benson doesn\'t have a \"new\" stadium that would produce more money for him. If Benson had a new stadium, this wouldn\'t be an issue.
But Benson doesn\'t have a new stadium and it is an issue.

Tom Benson: Whether he\'s making money or not isn\'t the issue. He feels he should be making more and wants a new stadium so he can make more money.

Other states spends large amounts of cash to help construct new stadiums so NFL owners can compete. The State of Louisiana can\'t do that, though. That\'s not Benson\'s fault. He didn\'t put the state in the position its in today. Benson is looking out for himself...not the State. And who can blame him?

Benson knows he can move the team and get what he wants. How many of you would turn down a few hundred million? Well, that\'s exactly what Benson has done.

It\'s going to be interesting to see what happens. If Blanco forces Benson to move, I don\'t think she\'ll return as governor. There\'s a lot of Saints fans out there who would be very upset. Including myself. But I don\'t live in Louisiana anymore, so I can\'t vote...






LKelley67 02-02-2005 02:07 PM

The state can't afford paying
 
i dont think there is any city/state ransomed as hard as benson over la. butcha know what if they contended or just played like contenders no one would care.

interesting info about the team if you missed it...
franchise rating from espn. ranked 78th out of all nfl, mlb, nba, and nhl teams (120). ranked 20th in nfl.

78 New Orleans Saints
FOOTBALL
2004: Our hats are off to the lowest cap cost in all of major sports ($6) and the seventh-cheapest ticket price ($43.87) in the NFL. Then again, Big Easy fans are stuck watching a team whose title hopes are as low as a local\'s resistance to gumbo (five playoff appearances and one win in 36 years). The only consistent winner here is Tom Benson, car magnate and ever-more unpopular owner. Forbes says the value of his franchise jumped 22 percent, to $585M.
Overall: 78th
Bang For The Buck: 33rd
Fan Relations: 86th
Ownership: 96th
Affordability: 49th
Stadium Experience: 87th
Players: 91st
Coach/Manager: 69th
Championships: 102nd

LongTimeFan 02-02-2005 02:28 PM

The state can't afford paying
 
The state is broke, do some checking and you\'ll find out for yourself, Benson doesn\'t pay rent at the dome for starters, never did, so that there in itself is saving him a lot of money.
He\'s making millions and millions just on the networks alone,everytime you buy a jersey, a cap or anything that has the Saints on it Benson is making money on it, I wouldn\'t be surprised if Benson is making about 50 million profit per year off of his team..
Making a ton of money on us when we go out to the dome, he\'s making a min. of 2.5 mill. per game on ticket sales alone.
Come on guys he\'s making money, and a lot of money.
Do any of you agree that his budget is around 80 mill. per (players, coaches, front office )year?, if so do some math and see what you come up with.
If he wasn\'t making money don\'t you think that he would sell the team and make a profit of 430 million dollars, that\'s almost a half of billion in his pockets

[Edited on 2/2/2005 by LongTimeFan]

[Edited on 2/2/2005 by LongTimeFan]

shadowdrinker 02-02-2005 02:56 PM

The state can't afford paying
 
Actually..The ticket sales are directly given to the shared revenue...

Alot of the reason owners are wanting a weaker financial team to go to L.A. , Is to increase the amount of shared revenue...and ..increase thier percentage of the shared revenue

And that\'s the same reason they voted out bringing in an expansion team...all that would do, is make one more mouth to feed..

ScottyRo 02-02-2005 03:20 PM

The state can't afford paying
 
Let him move. he will make no more money in LA provided the stadium situation is similar to that in Louisiana. (That\'s a big proviso, I know, but just let it pass for argument sake).

LA fans are fickle and two franchises have already moved away. If it is such a great place to own a franchise, why would that be? If Benson or anyone moves the team to LA, then the team is going to have to put up better numbers than it has in Louisiana that\'s for sure. - unles ticket sales mean nothing to Benson.

The word is that the NFL isn\'t going to let Benson move anyway. They will only let this franchise move there if it is owned by someone else. His threats don\'t scare me.


LongTimeFan 02-02-2005 03:29 PM

The state can't afford paying
 
Rams and the Raider owners were losing money over there, if a team misses a couple of years making post season the tickets sales drop off to a point where after awhile the owner has to then move his team elsewhere, now they support USC and the Lakers.
Benson knows of all this and more, there is noway Benson moves his team west.

LKelley67 02-02-2005 10:31 PM

The state can't afford paying
 
more team financial analysis from forbes-
http://www.forbes.com/finance/lists/...&datatype=Misc

i thought interesting is that benson bought the team for 70mil and now it is worth 627mil (their numbers)and goes up in value an avg of 12% PER YR, 7% in 2003. scwheeet!

they have their own cute number, player costs to wins ratio. the saints at 77% means that they get 23% fewer wins per dollar than the average nfl team.

vulture 02-03-2005 01:14 AM

The state can't afford paying
 
I for one get alot more enjoyment for my tax dollar with the Saints instead of seeing the state giving a check to someone who refuses to go out and work or to the illegal wet who is here for six months and hurts his back picking a garbage can and now gets a check.

Lets see where this democrat can cut some other pork barrell spending in the budget and honor a contract made in good faith. I rather see the Saints then a line of people getting some free health care at Charity hospital.

Halo 02-03-2005 10:05 AM

The state can't afford paying
 
Alright, I\'ll go through this one more time. The State of Louisiana pays no money to the Saints. The State taxes the crap out of tourists who go to New Orleans and the conscessions at games, and this makes about $25million (and growing) for the State. This money from the tax comes directly from the Saints and because the Saints are in town and people come from all over -Mississippi and Houma and sourrounding areas- and spend $ in New Orleans during the fall.

The Saints say they want a part of this money because it\'s generated by them and it\'s only here because of their presence. So the State gives the Saints $15 million a year and the State walks away with $10million for them selves.

If the Saints leave, the State stands to lose 10 to 15 million plus a year because the Saints are gone. This would be the largest economic blow to the State, as large as losing Entergy or Freeport-MacMoran or Avondale shipyards. If the Saints move in years to come there will be people crying because there will be some schools with no toilet paper to wipe their children\'s backsides and they will blame it on the loss of the Saints and the 10 to 15 million dollars we lost per year because we didn\'t want to pay them their part of the revenue share.

Does everybody understand now?

LKelley67 02-03-2005 10:15 AM

The state can't afford paying
 
i believe the saints are a positive economic impact to new orleans. forgive my ignorance though, if the tourism tax generates 25mil where is it going? i thought the state\'s beef is that tourism income has fell off after 9/11 and not recovered yet, thus the shortfall in revenue for the subsidy payment.

GumboBC 02-03-2005 10:16 AM

The state can't afford paying
 
Halo --

That\'s one way of looking at it. But....... I don\'t know.

You\'re saying because the Saints directly create tax dollars from tourism and other means, that they are entitled to receive a percentage of that back?

It seems fair on face value.

But........that isn\'t the way it works for other companies who created tax dollars. Even in the tourism industry..

Here on the Mississippi Gulf Coast, we have casinos who bring in tremendous tax dollars generated by tourism that wouldn\'t be here otherwise.

You know what percentage those casinos get back? None. Notta.

In fact, there\'s talk that the state of Mississippi wants to rasie their taxes.

The casinos have said if that happens that they will not expand any of their opperations in Ms. But they aren\'t threatening to leave...

I see no real difference between the Saints and the casinos in Mississippi. They\'re both making money.

The only real difference is ...... well, there really isn\'t one that I can think of. Except somehow a football team should be treated differently..

Maybe someone can show me the light?

Halo 02-03-2005 10:34 AM

The state can't afford paying
 
Ok, to answer both of you, after 911 the travel and tourism business sunk nationwide. The deal called for incramental increase in payments every year. The state has been falling short because the deal didn\'t account for something like 911 and the Saints have been forgiving.

But the travel and tourism business is on the up and up again and New Orleans is booming.

Point one (LKelley)What do they do with the money? The State taxes New Orleans and takes that money and funds the rest of the State. So money tax payers pay in N.O. help build schools in Baton Rouge or pave local roads in Bunkie. With 911 and income dropping, this issue has arrisen that the State \"does not have enough money to pay the Saints\" but in reality the State doesn\'t want to lower it\'s share of the money to compensate the Saints what they deserve.

Point 2 (GumboBC) - The Saints want more money because they claim they make less than the average team because they are in New Orleans which is a small market. This is all driven by the NFL to make it\'s franchises more profitable. Let\'s say the Saints make an income of (5) and average teams make (7) so (2) needs to be give to the Saints to compensate. It\'s a radical concept that the Saints and NFL invented.

Saints claim \"if you want us, then you have to pay this amount to keep us \'competative\' with the rest of the NFL, otherwise we have to move\" and this all comes because the NFL is telling them that.

Let\'s say you own a McDonald\'s franchise in a neighborhood and the neighborhood starts going bad. Profits drop and McDonalds tell you \"either pick up the profits or you must move to where you can make more-it\'s the only way you can stay as a McDonald\'s franchise.\" The franchise employs 30 people from the neighborhood and impacts the economy and the neighborhood has a burger tax on every burger and fry sold. The owner says \"we need a part of that tax to help make us profitable or we have to move\" so the neighborhood splits the tax so the McDonalds stays and everyone is happy.

I mainly agree with this and I know that casinos don\'t do this, but the Saints are a lot more. Everytime you see the Saints on TV, it sells New Orleans. Everytime the Saints lose to someone and it\'s in every paper in the US, it sells New Orleans. So every station in the US like Fox and NBC always include New Orleans in the weather forecast because people are going there and they have to know the weather for the game (although it\'s in a dome) but everytime they do that it sells New Orleans and profits go up. For a casino when you see \"Copa\" or \"Bally\'s\" it\'s not selling the coast, it sells Bally\'s or Copa because you can also go to Bally\'s in Las Vegas or Atlantic City.

The Saints are a brand that are one with New Orleans and are synonymous. Without them the State and City lose bad. No more weather forecasts, no more making the 8th page of the paper nationwide in the fall, no more advertisements during games of guys at Acme oysterhouse shucking oysters...


Now, I have to go to the Dr appt, if you guys want to ask more I will answer but it won\'t be until tonight.


Luv you guys.

[Edited on 2/3/2005 by Halo]

[Edited on 2/3/2005 by Halo]

ScottyRo 02-03-2005 10:57 AM

The state can't afford paying
 
Quote:

Alright, I\'ll go through this one more time. The State of Louisiana pays no money to the Saints. The State taxes the crap out of tourists who go to New Orleans and the conscessions at games, and this makes about $25million (and growing) for the State. This money from the tax comes directly from the Saints and because the Saints are in town and people come from all over -Mississippi and Houma and sourrounding areas- and spend $ in New Orleans during the fall.

The Saints say they want a part of this money because it\'s generated by them and it\'s only here because of their presence. So the State gives the Saints $15 million a year and the State walks away with $10million for them selves.

If the Saints leave, the State stands to lose 10 to 15 million plus a year because the Saints are gone. This would be the largest economic blow to the State, as large as losing Entergy or Freeport-MacMoran or Avondale shipyards. If the Saints move in years to come there will be people crying because there will be some schools with no toilet paper to wipe their children\'s backsides and they will blame it on the loss of the Saints and the 10 to 15 million dollars we lost per year because we didn\'t want to pay them their part of the revenue share.

Does everybody understand now?
Wrong. You say that the state makes $25 million from taxes and the concessions at the games. That\'s your figure which I\'ll accept because I don\'t know.

Then you say that Benson wants part of the money and claim it\'s 15 million. Isn\'t the payment closer to 20 mil this year? It\'s going to be over $23 mil before long. But using your figure, that\'s then a net of 10 mil to the state.

From this we must subtract all the little headaches created by having the team here and playing games here. There\'s extra police to direct traffic, and every traffic jam has auto accidents which cost state and locals governments money. I\'m sure with all the extra tourists in town crime goes up, more people are injured, and there is a requirement therefore for more police protection. I can only guess how much all of this might cost the state and local governments. I\'m just gonna say an additional 2 mil a year and that is very conservative, I\'m sure.

So, last year the state made 8 mil - maybe. Don\'t forget that the state finainced and built a stadium for Benson\'s team to play in AT NO COST TO BENSON. In a couple more years under this deal the state will only break even, while as I discussed in another thread Benson will be making at a minimum $40 mil a year.

Now, regardless of anything I said above being correct, the last argument is that the state is deserving of the $25 mil because it has provided Benson with a place to own a franchise and a place for his team to play. So, to give any portion of that money up would be the taxpayers of Louisiana giving up what is rightfully theirs. I agree a contract was signed, but I\'m sure you\'d have to agree it was signed pretty much under extortionist tactics by Benson - since he was threatening to move.

The bottomline is no other state does this sort of thing for its team. Benson knew where the Saints were located when he purchased them and knew also that the State\'s economy wasn\'t good after the oil boom ended. There was nothing to indicate that the state would ever get dramatically better financially. So, boo hoo to him that he isn\'t making as much as other franchises. You think McDonald\'s cares if one of it\'s franchised stores doesn\'t make as much as some other stores in better locations. No, that is all on the owner of that particular store and his decision to locate there.

Finally, how much is Benson actually to blame for his lower profits? He\'s owned the team 17-18 years and has only one playoff victory to cling to. 5 playoff trips in all. There\'s no guarantee that we\'ll make the playoffs in the next 2-3 yers so at that point he\'ll have an org that makes the playoffs a mere 25% of the time and wins a playoff game only 2% of the time.

But no, he keeps giving us a mediocre team at best while expecting winner returns. He pinches every penny and cries when fans do the same. He is part of the problem and fully responsible for his own financial condition yet expects a struggling state to pay additional kickbacks.

So, when Benson gets all of the tax money and concession money, what will be the benefit to the state then?

GumboBC 02-03-2005 10:58 AM

The state can't afford paying
 
Halo --

Okay. Point taken. You said basically what I said in a previous post. Although you expanded on what I said.

I\'ll agree with you.

I do agree that the NFL and other businesses are different in some regards.

But, I don\'t think those differences are the tax dollars the Saints generate vs. tax dollars generated by some of the other type businesses.

I think the only real difference is the presedent that has been set by other states as it relates to the NFL.

Other states have set a presedent by offering NFL owners large amounts of cash for stadiums and other needs.

What that did was it gave other NFL owners a big bargaining chip to use in the state in which their perspective team resides in.

They can simply say, hey..... Florida gave one of their teams x amount of dollars and as an NFL owner, I need that also.

But, IMO, that doesn\'t make it right. Or fair.

Louisiana doesn\'t have the money other states have. And when the Saints came to Louisiana, there was no agreement that the State would EVER give the Saints any money.

So, I don\'t think there\'s necessarily a right or wrong side here.

Benson is looking out for Benson, and the State is looking out for the State.

My opinion is...... If the State can give Benson the money he needs ....... and the state can still make money......then, they should do it.

But, who\'s to say Benson won\'t be back with his hand out very soon.

This isn\'t as simple as it might sound......IMO..



[Edited on 3/2/2005 by GumboBC]

ScottyRo 02-03-2005 11:07 AM

The state can't afford paying
 
Quote:

Let\'s say you own a McDonald\'s franchise in a neighborhood and the neighborhood starts going bad. Profits drop and McDonalds tell you \"either pick up the profits or you must move to where you can make more-it\'s the only way you can stay as a McDonald\'s franchise.\" The franchise employs 30 people from the neighborhood and impacts the economy and the neighborhood has a burger tax on every burger and fry sold. The owner says \"we need a part of that tax to help make us profitable or we have to move\" so the neighborhood splits the tax so the McDonalds stays and everyone is happy.
That funny. You used a McDonald\'s reference too. :D

I don\'t think you\'e right here though. The McD corp very well may force the franchise to move or close, but they wont help you demand from the neighborhood a tax break in order to make you competitive. You chose the location, location, location, after all.

But take that McD store which is only open 8 weekends a year and does not provide quality food, should the neighborhood really kick in a tax break to help it? There are other fast food chains open year round which generate much more french fries tax than does this McD store. Should the neoghborhood simply break even at best, just so it can say it has a McD store?

Not in my mind they shouldn\'t.

LKelley67 02-03-2005 11:14 AM

The state can't afford paying
 
Quote:

in reality the State doesn\'t want to lower it\'s share of the money to compensate the Saints what they deserve
why don\'t i hear the saints volleying this fact? it seems it should be easily identifiable and accounted for if so.

the other side of the coin is the saints are in the bottom half dozen teams in market size and revenue- but not the bottom certainly. no other owner has any subsidy/padding to any degree near what benson is receiving. to write out a 15-20mil dollar check yearly, i think asking for a 3rd party auditor to verify his claims of going to the poor house is entirely reasonable.

i think louisianaians want to keep and support the saints. but support the needs of the franchise not pad the pockets of an owner that only has a growing rep as a notorious tightwad. transparency would go a long way but neither franchise owners or louisiana politicians are famous for that.

a good read here on stadiums and subsidies if anyone cares to peruse-
http://www.calvertinstitute.org/main...l.php?pub_id=3

[Edited on 3/2/2005 by LKelley67]

ScottyRo 02-03-2005 11:22 AM

The state can't afford paying
 
Quote:

Everytime you see the Saints on TV, it sells New Orleans. Everytime the Saints lose to someone and it\'s in every paper in the US, it sells New Orleans. So every station in the US like Fox and NBC always include New Orleans in the weather forecast because people are going there and they have to know the weather for the game (although it\'s in a dome) but everytime they do that it sells New Orleans and profits go up. For a casino when you see \"Copa\" or \"Bally\'s\" it\'s not selling the coast, it sells Bally\'s or Copa because you can also go to Bally\'s in Las Vegas or Atlantic City.
I disagree here too. It may put the name New Orleans out, in fact, it does. But I cannot believe it is actually selling people to come here just to be mentioned along with the football team. Never once when I\'ve seen the forecast in Buffalo or Seattle or San Diego have a thought that I\'d like to go to that city anymore than I have had that thought on my own. Maybe I\'m just different. I never read or heard of any studies that indicated just what value the mentioning of the name of the city along with the team has for the tourism of that particular city outside of football.

I will grant you that when they are showing shots of the city during the game and showing burbon street or when they\'ve shown the Arch in St. louis or niagra falls and such, that is good advertising for the city. The weather reports and box scores don\'t provide that type of advertising, imo.

This all just my gut feeling based on what limited knowledge I have on the subjects. Halo, my first word above to you was \"wrong\". Temper that wrong with my acknowledgement that I am no expert on this issue.

LKelley67 02-03-2005 11:28 AM

The state can't afford paying
 
i came across this which is powerful. forgive the length but it is absolutely current and relevant-

Washington Monthly, January 30, 2005
Kevin Drum

INSIDE THE NFL....I don\'t live in Los Angeles, but I live close enough that I can take some civic pride in perhaps the finest show of municipal stubbornness on offer in the nation today: LA\'s decade-long refusal to spend one thin dime of public money on begging an NFL team to take up residence here.

With that in mind, Scott Gold has a fascinating piece in the LA Times today suggesting that the NFL actually likes this situation just fine. Why? Because with LA looming in the background, teams in other parts of the country have an easier time extorting concessions out of their cities by threatening to move if they don\'t get what they want. Gold suggests this has been the case in New Orleans, Seattle, Phoenix, and Indianapolis, and while sometimes the LA card is kept in the background, sometimes it\'s not:

[Indianapolis Colt owner Jim] Irsay\'s flirtation with Los Angeles was not subtle; at one point he applied for membership at the Riviera Country Club in Pacific Palisades.

So how long can other NFL clubs keep pulling this Godfather act? Gold says probably not for much longer:

The irony, said Andrew Zimbalist, a sports economist and a professor at Smith College in Massachusetts, is that in the end, the NFL probably won\'t let any of the franchises that have threatened to move actually do it. Zimbalist thinks it more likely that the NFL will add a new team.

Many analysts say the strategy of using Los Angeles for leverage is about to run its course — just as communities and government officials are getting wise.

It is virtually certain that no public money, at least in the form of general funds, will go toward building a stadium or renovating an existing one in Los Angeles.

The rest of the nation will then realize that stadium projects can be completed with private money alone, said David Carter, an L.A. sports consultant who has been keenly involved in the effort to get an NFL team back in Southern California.

If that had been clear 10 years ago, team owners would have had no leverage because taxpayers would have called their bluff, Carter said. Instead, he said, \"If Southern California goes last, the NFL gets the best of both worlds.\"

The amount of taxpayer money that the NFL has suckered out of gullible working class sports fans for stadium deals that mostly benefit the ultra-rich is probably enough to save Social Security for the next century. But hey — don\'t let it bother you too much. After all, it\'s not personal, it\'s just business. Capiche?

the la times article referenced-
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-...ck=1&cset=true

[Edited on 3/2/2005 by LKelley67]

GumboBC 02-03-2005 11:37 AM

The state can't afford paying
 
LKelley67-

Thanks for that article, dude. Very good read.

And I agree with it 100%.

But, if it comes down to it, I want Benson to get his money if it comes down to the Saints leaving.


Let\'s face it, if the Saints leave, the state will lose money. No matter how you slice it. That\'s not a wise move to me.

ScottyRo 02-03-2005 12:11 PM

The state can't afford paying
 
Quote:

But, if it comes down to it, I want Benson to get his money if it comes down to the Saints leaving.
Loved the article 67, it just confirmed the gut feeling I have been having for a while about LA. as a potential place for the Saints.

Gumbo, why don\'t we just make Benson Dictator of Louisiana and get it over with? Then he wont move the team, I\'m sure.

Look at this...

Benson has profitted handsomely every year he has owned the team...maybe not as much as others, but maybe that\'s his fault.

Benson bought the team for about $70 mil. By the time he has owned it for 20 years, it may be worth 10 times that much. Do you have any idea how much someone can reasonably expect money to grow over the course of 10 years? 7 to 10 percent. Thus for 20 we\'re looking at 20% max for reasonably good growth. That is 1.2 as opposed to the 10 Benson actually has gotten or can anticipate getting.

I can\'t fault him for making a wise investment. But for him to cry like he\'s not even solvent on the Saints while refusing to divulge the actual figures, is petty, dishonest, and down right dirty.

GumboBC 02-03-2005 12:20 PM

The state can't afford paying
 
Quote:

Gumbo, why don\'t we just make Benson Dictator of Louisiana and get it over with? Then he wont move the team, I\'m sure.

You\'ve been getting a little \"snippy\" for the past couple of days, Scotty?

I\'ve got feelings too. :P

Check this out Scotty,

I know you feel very strongly in your beliefs about the state not giving in to Benson. But that doesn\'t make you right. Which is the way you are coming across.

And get this, I don\'t agree with you and here\'s why:

If the Saints leave Louisiana, the state will lose money. No matter which way you slice it.

And........... I love the Saints........... I don\'t give a damn about Louisiana, I don\'t live there anymore. J/K folks, I love Louisiana.

So, if the state follows your advice, Scotty and the Saints leave Louisiana, does the state lose money? Yes or No will do.

Now, I\'m just playing around with ya Scotty. I hope you know that. I hope you were playing also...


ScottyRo 02-03-2005 12:40 PM

The state can't afford paying
 
I don\'t mean to come off snippy, Gumbo. I\'ve probably just ignored my usual editing that weeds that out since I\'ve been posting more. Thus, I\'m coming off harsher than I intend.

To answer your question, Yes the state will lose money if the saints leave. This is true only until the payments get into the 20+ mil range. Then I\'m not so sure based on the figures Halo posted.

But why can\'t the state use the same argument that Benson is using. We can look at the benefit other cities and states are getting from their teams and tell TB that we want that kind of cash to be generated by the team so we as a state can stay competitive. That would seem fair to me.

You can agree that N.O./Louisiana is not making as much money off the team as most other ciies are, right?


GumboBC 02-03-2005 12:49 PM

The state can't afford paying
 
It\'s all good, Scotty. You know I\'m used to a little \"snippyness\". That is a word, right?

Like I\'ve said, there\'s two sides here.

Neither are being unrealistic, IMO.

They just both have to look out for themselves.

There at two opposite ends of the spectrum.

Benson didn\'t create the presedent for owners receiving money for their teams. That started a good while back.

Now, Benson is using that presedent as a bargaining chip to gets what he wants.

And if other states are doing this, who\'s to say it\'s wrong to ask for it. Benson has to compete with these other teams who are getting money from their state.

But, I can see the State\'s side also. They don\'t owe Benson a damn thing. Nothing. Notta. Zilch!!

But, if Louisiana wants to keep an NFL team, they might have to do like other states and pony up some cash.

Its my opinion that the state should pay as long as they continue to make money off the state.

When the day comes that the state is losing money......then, adios saints.


ScottyRo 02-03-2005 02:29 PM

The state can't afford paying
 
I guess my biggest gripe is that he is demanding this money based on the premise that he would leave Louisiana when to do so wouldn\'t net him any more profits.

L.A. was discussed above. There\'s no money to be made there and the NFL isn\'t going to allow Benson to own the team in L.A. anyway.

San Antonio has been discussed or mentioned but, really, how well do you think a team that has a history as sad as ours is going to compete against the cowboys and the texans for fans? Not too well, i think.

So, where else can he take them that would destroy our love for the team? If he moves to the gulf coast that doesn\'t hurt me any. It\'s just a little farther away.

I\'m just sick of his threats. If the state renovates the superdome, then he can help pay for it by letting the state out of the contract. if he wants a new stadium, he can build it himself. I don\'t have a terrible problem with finihsing out this deal although it is distasteful. Foster made the deal - we should stick to it, if we can.

But once this deal has been completed, I don\'t want to hear any more about the state paying him to stay. I\'m not against making additional concessions like excusing him from state income tax or something, but no more checks written to the man from the State. That gravy train needs to end.

I also figured that I get a little bit grumpy for having to type into that little -bitty box with the little-bitty font size in order post.

/s/ King of Snippyville

saintswhodi 02-03-2005 03:17 PM

The state can't afford paying
 
From living in San Antonio Scotty they would not have to fight for fans here. Not only does San Antone have a larger population than New Orleans, the city is relatively well off and already has the Alamadome, which is a great stadium. The people here seem to be cowboys fans by default, since they don\'t have their own team. But theyhave the spurs and draw fans from Mexico and all the areas south of San Antonio. If they ever used San Antonio as a credible threat, the state better listen more than they do for LA cause this is a town starving for a football team. Any small inkling Red McCombs would ever move the vikings here and it is front page news. Trust me, San Antone is starved for a football team of their own. Now I hope the Saints never move, but if they come here, I won\'t be sad. ;)

But in all honesty, they should never leave New Orleans, unless Benson remains just an unreasonable jerk and keeps up with the blackmail. I am 100% with you, after renovation and all that crap NO MORE PAYMENTS. Stand on yoru own and promote your team. Put a winning team on the field to draw more fans. The Saints can do more as an organization to help themselves than the State can ever do.

[Edited on 3/2/2005 by saintswhodi]

spkb25 02-03-2005 06:58 PM

The state can't afford paying
 
well if no more payments for the saints what do they do with that extra money for the state. give more to the less then deserving. dont we do that enough already. im going on what halo said. if thats all true then the state has no argument. what else will they do with that money give it to everyone other then the people who pay it. mind as well give it to the saints

LKelley67 02-03-2005 07:13 PM

The state can't afford paying
 
i read this on the voodoo site about benson-

His dedication, hard work and integrity has made Benson one of the most trusted and esteemed figures in the NFL. He plays a key role in many capacities, including as Chairman of the Finance Committee.

His involvement in pro football started in 1985, when Benson learned the Saints were on the verge of being sold to out-of-town interests who were primed to move the team from New Orleans. The sport had yet to become one of his passions, but Benson immediately recognized the economic and social importance of the club to the entire region.

-the part i emboldened- 1. he wasn\'t a football fan, no passion for it. i have stated before i think most of these owners are egomaniacs that having \"their\" team is as much status as it is interest in it. 2. he did see the economic opportunity but i think it was a lot more for himself than out of civic compassion.

remember this from the fall...
At an undetermined time in the not-too-distant future, Benson, 76, now widowed and not too far removed from back and heart surgery, will step away from the day-to-day operations of the Saints. Then Rita Benson LeBlanc will go marching into one of the most powerful and civically important jobs in this region.
i think he is a few steps out the door now. 76 with a new wife to enjoy yachting around with. maybe his grand daughter will boot loomis and venturi at least. lol

after i posted this it kept buggin me, i came back to emphasize- the dude was 56 yrs old when he bought the saints and it \"wasn\'t a passion of his\". gawd, amazin they have done as well as they have. he apparently he let\'s the front office run the team and doesnt butt in too much (less venturi\'s pics of him with the sheep). the problem is he cant tell the difference between a finks and a loomis as far as football goes it seems.



[Edited on 4/2/2005 by LKelley67]

LongTimeFan 02-03-2005 07:55 PM

The state can't afford paying
 
It\'s Benson\'s threats that I like care for, people of Louisiana are getting tired of the threats, I know I am.
Bottom Line:The tax money just isn\'t for Benson, it belongs to the state, the hotel-motel tax is through the roof and we\'re still off a lot with the money we owe him, whatelse can the State do?,
Benson could care less if the state goes broke trying to pay him what he thinks we owe him, I don\'t know what to think of this anymore, we\'ll just have to wait and hope for the best.

Tobias-Reiper 02-04-2005 04:28 PM

The state can't afford paying
 
...well, then I don\'t see why they have New Orleans in the weather forecasts between January and September...

...wouldn\'t it be that stations around the country show the New Orleans weather forecast because all of the myrad of conventions, Mardi Gras, Jazz Fest, etc., etc., etc, that occur all year long in New Orleans???
..I guess those don\'t bring any money...

...Mardi Gras alone has to blow away what the Saints bring into the State 20 times fold, yet you don\'t see bars in the quarter or the flashers asking for a share of the tax revenue..

.. heck I am willing to bet that the LSU football team brings in more money into the State than the Saints...

... no other type of business asks for guaranteed profits from a State... because this is what the Saints are doing... asking for guaranteed profits... imagine the Tabasco people going to Blanco and saying \"our sauce stinks, no one buys it, but if you want to keep us here and our 400 employees, you have to give us 15 million dlls\"

..one thing is to ask for tax breaks, infrastructure, etc.. but guaranteed profits? As much as I like the New Orleans Saints, I cannot bring myself to accept the gov\'t subsidizing multimillionaires...

The Saints are making money... the NFL\'s revenue sharing program makes sure of it: they get get 60% of the gate in home games and 40% of the gate on away games, they get an equal share of the TV contract revenue, etc...

..what the Saints want, is higher ticket prices, PSL\'s, and more corporate suites (but who the hell is going to buy those? There are no corporations left in LA.) Of course, the first 2 cannot happen without the \"new stadium\" excuse...

...this is 2005.. because of technology there are no \"small markets\" anymore... you want to be in a \"big market\"? Win games... Go to the playoffs every year, get to a SB... then kids in Seattle will be buying Saints gear... then TV stations across the Gulf, heck, in Shreveport, would want to televize the Saints game... then the Saints would play more national games... and more money would come in...



[Edited on 4/2/2005 by Tobias-Reiper]


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