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Danno 02-03-2005 08:03 AM

If Howard leaves, a 3-4 switch? Seriously
 
I've always heard our DE's are perfect for a 4-3 defense. But if we deal Howard (maybe for a true NT) then we may be able to make the switch. But should we?

Imagine, signing Hartwell and/or Bell.
Ruff is probably better suited to play ILB in a 3-4.
Watson could play ILB or WLB.
Will Smith could play the SLB (Buck position, like Suggs)
We have planty of large DE's, some were converted to DT.
Kenny Smith, Willie Whitehead, and even Bryan Young could play the DE in a 3-4.

Imagine...

RDE-Charles Grant, a little light but not by much.
NT-Free Agent
LDE-Kenny Smith, Willie Whithead, Bryan Young, etc

OLB-Will Smith
MLB-Watson or Bell
MLB-Hartwell
OLB-Allen or Watson

Hmmm. The key would be getting that NT, and a decent back-up. And actually pursueing 3 or 4 new LB's via FA and the draft.
Just some off-season scheme candy to consider.

Personally I'd stick with the 4-3, but its interesting.

GumboBC 02-03-2005 08:44 AM

If Howard leaves, a 3-4 switch? Seriously
 
I love the 3-4 defense.

But, you\'ve got to have the right \"personnel!!

Last years Falcons are a perfect example of what can happen if you don\'t have the right personnel. The Falcons didn\'t have the DTs needed to play the 3-4 and they got run over..

I think playing a good solid 3-4 scheme starts with the defensive tackles. It\'s imparative that your tackles can hold their ground without any help. The linebackers should be free to run around and make plays. They can\'t do that if you don\'t have the DTs to do so....

The next thing you need are 4-linebackers. Since your defensive ends are now your outside linebackers, they need to be quick off the edges and be able to apply pressure to the QB. Then your 2-inside linebackers need to be able to make plays in the middle and be able to get to the outside and make plays also.

I don\'t think we have the personnel to play the 3-4.

I think we have the guys, Grant and Will Smith, to play outside linebacker.

But, I dont\' think the DTs, Brian Young and Howard Green, can be effective in the 3-4. Sullivan could probably make the grade there. But, Brian Young isn\'t suited to play in the 3-4. Just go back to my Falcon analysis...

Then there\'s the inside linebacers... Its hard to say with these guys. Watson may be able to adapt. Buckwaldt looks like he could. So.... maybe we\'re okay here.

IMO, the big advantage the 3-4 has is teams aren\'t use to seeing it. Especially in the NFC where, I think, only one team is using it as their base defense. In the AFC, I think, there are 5 or 6 teams running the 3-4. And I think all of them made it to the playoffs..

If we can bring in another DT and Sully steps up, then I think we could go for it.

My 2 cents... :)




Danno 02-03-2005 09:34 AM

If Howard leaves, a 3-4 switch? Seriously
 
Gumbo, as a student of the game I\'m surprised at some of your statements here.
First off, I\'m aware we don\'t have the personnel right now, the whole point was if Howard leaves it might be a good time to make the switch, since Howard is in no way suited for the 3-4.
But thats beside the point. I\'m no coach, but from I\'ve read about the 3-4 lets discuss...
Quote:

The Falcons didn\'t have the DTs needed to play the 3-4 and they got run over..
I think playing a good solid 3-4 scheme starts with the defensive tackles. It\'s imparative that your tackles can hold their ground without any help. The linebackers should be free to run around and make plays. They can\'t do that if you don\'t have the DTs to do so....
You only have 1 DT in a 3-4. The outside D-linemen are DE\'s. The DE\'s are typicaly a bit larger than the 4-3 type and must be run stuffers 1st, and pass rushers 2nd. Just the opposite of a 4-3.The Falcons DE\'s were suited for a 4-3, and they didn\'t have a true NT.
Quote:

I don\'t think we have the personnel to play the 3-4.
Which is why I premised it with attaining a NT, and a couple more LB\'s to play it.
Quote:

I think we have the guys, Grant and Will Smith, to play outside linebacker.
Charles Grant would stay at DE. Are you referring to Cie Grant? If healthy he\'d play the role of Rickey Jackson. Will Smith would play the role of a Terrell Suggs, Pat Swilling, a down LB.
Quote:

But, I dont\' think the DTs, Brian Young and Howard Green, can be effective in the 3-4. Sullivan could probably make the grade there. But, Brian Young isn\'t suited to play in the 3-4. Just go back to my Falcon analysis...
Which is why I suggested Young could probably play the DE in a 3-4. As well as our other undersized DT\'s and oversized DE\'s.
Quote:

Then there\'s the inside linebacers... Its hard to say with these guys. Watson may be able to adapt. Buckwaldt looks like he could. So.... maybe we\'re okay here.
No way could Colby play inside in a 3-4. He doesn\'t have the power.Watson and Ruff could though. But thats one of the LB\'s I said we\'d have to get. Like a Hartwell or Bell.
Quote:

IMO, the big advantage the 3-4 has is teams aren\'t use to seeing it. Especially in the NFC where, I think, only one team is using it as their base defense. In the AFC, I think, there are 5 or 6 teams running the 3-4. And I think all of them made it to the playoffs.
Thats very true. Teams went away from the 3-4 because offenses became tailored to defeat it. But with so few in the NFC it could present match-up problems to our benefit.
Just off-season talk. I\'d prefer to stay in a 4-3, trade Howard for a solid 2-gap DT or a LB, or OT, or CB, or Draft pick or a Safety, or a real DC or football GM.

ScottyRo 02-03-2005 09:49 AM

If Howard leaves, a 3-4 switch? Seriously
 
In either case we are two good LBs and a good NT short of a good D (not counting how many CBs we need). My problem with changing to 3-4 would be that we would also take two relatively \"known\" aspects of our D, that is, Grant and Smith are good at rushing the QB from DE position, and moving one inside and the other to a LB spot where he might also be called on to cover more often.

Add in that Watson would either have to learn a new D at MLB or learn a new position at OLB and it\'s really like starting with 4 brand new LBs.

In making this switch, LB is supposed to be the D\'s strong point. I don\'t think you can make the case that our LBs are our strong point even if they are Smith, Bell, Hartwell and Watson (or Allen, Hodge).

saintswhodi 02-03-2005 09:50 AM

If Howard leaves, a 3-4 switch? Seriously
 
Simply put, no.

Danno 02-03-2005 09:55 AM

If Howard leaves, a 3-4 switch? Seriously
 
Quote:

Simply put, no.
we\'re not worthy
we\'re not worthy...

saintswhodi 02-03-2005 10:00 AM

If Howard leaves, a 3-4 switch? Seriously
 
Hey, I know a bad idea when I see one. ;)

GumboBC 02-03-2005 10:02 AM

If Howard leaves, a 3-4 switch? Seriously
 
Danno -

You\'re right, now that I think about it.

I think in the 3-4 you have:

1. Two defensive ends.
2. Four linebackers.
3. One tackle.
4. Two safeties
5. Two cornerbacks.

I believe one of the linebackers (middle) often plays on the line of scrimmage in obvious running situations. That would be Courtney Watson, IMO.

Then you have another linebacker, either on the right or left of the middle linebacker, who needs to be able to help in run support also. So they need to be on the bigger side. I think James Allen could play there.

Then you have your other line backer, who plays either to the right or left or the middle linebder, who needs to be able to drop back in coverage and chase down plays on the outside. I think Buckwoldt could make the grade.

Then that leaves the linebacker who lines up at the end of the line. Of course, that would be Will Smith.

And, of course, Charles Grant would play the DE position.

I understand your entire point of this thread was that we need other players.

I think the only thing we are really missing is the big DT who could occupy the double team.

Though, I\'d like to have an upgrade at linebacker, I think we \"could\" be effective in the 3-4 if we had a the DT to play in the 3-4.

Now, let me remember, how does the 46 defense work? My head hurts...LOL

[Edited on 3/2/2005 by GumboBC]

FireVenturi 02-03-2005 06:39 PM

If Howard leaves, a 3-4 switch? Seriously
 
Two words......Pat Williams

spkb25 02-03-2005 07:50 PM

If Howard leaves, a 3-4 switch? Seriously
 
from what i read this past year on some sights has wants to go to a 3-4 but hasnt because of venturi.


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