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GumboBC 02-04-2005 08:35 AM

Pass Blocking and McCarthy?
 
Those of you that have been here a while probably can remember me complaining about the offensive line's PASS blocking way back in 2003.

That was the same year Deuce rushed for 1,600 yards.

Anyway, after every game, many folks would come here and begin to tell us why they thought the Saints lost.

And......... just about every Sunday I would complain that the offensive line was doing a terrible job of blocking.

But, many of you would point to the stats Deuce was putting up in the running game. And I'd say that had nothing to do with the PASS blocking.

It really frustrated me that some of you weren't talking about the poor blocking by the offensive line in 2003.

What does this have to do with anything, you ask?

Well, I'm going to try and tie in a few points here...

1. In 2003 we ran an offense that included a fullback and one tighted as our base offense.

2. In 2004 McCarthy deciced he wanted to go to the "spread" offense".

Last off-season many of us dicussed the "spread" offense that was going to be used in 2004. Many of us envisioned a high flying, big play offense.

But, there was ONE big thing that prevented the "spread" offense from being effective.

And that problem was the offensive line.

In 2003 the offensive line didn't look as bad as 2004. But, I believe the reason they didn't look as bad was because the offensive line had a fullback and a TE to help out in the pass protection. And sometimes they even had 2 tightends to help with pass protection.

That wasn't the case in 2004 and we got a very CLEAR look at just how ineffective our offensive tackles were. Gandy and Riley just couldn't get the job done without any help.

Brooks really got killed against some of the better pass rushing teams. The first Buc and Panther game comes to mind.

Even though McCarthy could see Gandy and Riley letting their man come clean to our QB, he insisted on giving them no help blocking.

It really baffled me as to why McCarthy didn't call more max-protect when it was obvious our offensive line couldn't get it done.

Well.....in the last game against the Panthers, McCarthy did go max-protect in the passing game and the Panthers great pass rushers were really ineffective. Peppers and crew didn't sack AB even one time, if memory serves me correctly.

This is kind of long, so bear with me........

I beleive good coaches are good because they can hide their teams weaknesses and play to their strengths. In other words, the good coahes don't wait for 8 or 9 games before they come up with a way to fix a weakness.

Instead of McCarthy going to an offesive alignment that would help our O-line pass block, he insisted on trying to spread the field with 3 and 4 receiver sets.

While have 3 and 4 receivers on the field gives a QB more options to throw to, it doesn't do very much good if your QB only has 2 or 3 seconds to make a decision.

I'd rather have 2 receivers and 5 or 6 seconds to let of of those receivers come open.

This is getting too long, so, I'm going to wrap this up.

Some of you might point out that McCarthy reguarly used a 2 tightend set. But that was mainly in the running game. In the passing game he played the "spread" offense for the majority of the passing plays.

And I believe that might be one reason Haslett was upset with McCarthy.

Thoughts?













[Edited on 4/2/2005 by GumboBC]

FrenzyFan 02-04-2005 09:18 AM

Pass Blocking and McCarthy?
 
I suspect McCarthy\'s exit has more to do with predictability than pass-blocking. Though our O-Line was definitely not the best in the league, I don\'t think it is as bad as you make it out to be. There are a lot of other teams out there with much worse lines and good pass-rushing team abused them even worse than they abused us.

There is no question that on some plays people came virtually untouched at our QB. It is also true to say that that happens in every football game to every QB on every team. It is also true that MOST QBs don\'t often have more than 2-3 seconds to get rid of the ball. It\'s rare to see it be any longer unless the defense is only rushing four. In those cases, QBs often have more time and when I saw other teams rushing only four against us our, QB had more time.

I think, as I have said before, that AB is slow off the line and he takes longer to \"see and understand\" the play develop. It simply appears to me that it takes him longer to interpret what is going on. If what I think I am seeing is right, then it will always appear that he is hurried. It\'s not a function of a bad line, merely an average line with a QB that takes just a bit longer to adjust to the situation. To me, with his happy feet, scrambling into the pass rush, throwing off his back foot, etc.; he never looks comfortable - even on plays when he had 6 seconds to throw the ball (i.e. \"All day\").

Now, all that being said. I think one of our most urgent needs for an upgrade is at OT. That\'s where the best pass rushers in the league play against and Gandy just isn\'t what he used to be. I think Riley\'s problem is weight gain and that seems to be epidemic on this team. I think if we got some coaching in here that could inspire the players, Riley may be savable.

However even with an upgrade at OT, the QB still will not normally have a lot of time to sit back there and figure out what to do. The QB has to know the offense, be able to see all his options, make a decision, and be throwing the ball, all in about 3 seconds on most plays. If that doesn\'t happen the play breaks down and then the only way to succeed is for your playmakers to make plays.

We seem to be in short supply on that last point.... not sure why, unless the \"strict discipline\" implemented this year had an effect on the way our receivers run their routes which subsequently had a detrimental effect on \"sandlot\" style foorball. Too many unknowables to be sure.

Just my opinion.

GumboBC 02-04-2005 09:51 AM

Pass Blocking and McCarthy?
 
Quote:

Though our O-Line was definitely not the best in the league, I don\'t think it is as bad as you make it out to be.
You make it sound like I\'m in the minority when I say our offensive line was one of the worst in the NFL.

Well, it ain\'t just me. I bet if we take a poll here on B&G that most will agree that our offesive line was one of the worst in the NFL when it came to run blocking and pass blocking.

Furthermore, the Times Picauyne has said the same thing. Mike Detillier has said the same things. And numerous other media sources have said the same thing.

Quote:

It is also true that MOST QBs don\'t often have more than 2-3 seconds
That\'s your opinion, and you\'re entitled to it. But when I watch Brady, Peyton, and some of the best QBs, I see \'em getting much more time to throw than our QB.

Now, I\'m not suggesting that Brooks is great at making quick throws. And I\'m not suggesting Brooks doesn\'t hold the ball too long at times.

But, I\'ve got to lay blame where blame belongs. And the offesive line and McCarthy\'s insisitence on giving Gandy and Riley no help blocking deserves plenty of blame, IMO.

There ain\'t much anyone can say about Brooks that hasn\'t been said. So, I hear what you\'re saying about AB. I just think you are making AB sound much worse than what he is..



saintswhodi 02-04-2005 10:16 AM

Pass Blocking and McCarthy?
 
I think Frenzy is absolutely right(what a surprise). NFL Qbs do not get generally more than a couple of seconds to read a play, and unload the ball. The difference with Peyton and Brady than with us is that OPPOSING TEAMS ARE AFRAID of Brady or Manning burning them if they rush more than 4. Look at what happened to Pittsburgh against New England. They Blitz Brady and in less than two seconds each time he had a bomb off to a receiver WAY downfield. Noone we play worries about that from our QB so they rush and blitz more, which in turn confuses our QB which in turn leads to indecision, then pressure, than everyone pooping on our line. When teams rushed 4, AB had time. He still looked unsettled and indecisive, except for the occasional flashes of looking good. Nice analysis Frenzy. When a team is not afraid of your QB making decisions to beat you, they feel free to unload the house rushing the ball. That will make any O-line look terrible, especially an average one like ours. I agree with the assessment that they were bad, but not worse in the league as it often appears people wanna make it to be.

Anyone who wants AB to have 6 seconds every play to throw the ball(where I still doubt it would do any good) must also believe you should rush for 1500 yards every year with 15 TDs and your receivers should put up 100 catches with 1200 yards and 13 TDs every year. These things are just NOT gonna happen EVERY time. If generally 2-3 seconds is not enough time for AB to unload the ball, he needs to go and we need to find someone who can.

GumboBC 02-04-2005 10:23 AM

Pass Blocking and McCarthy?
 
Maybe I\'m in the minority here.........BUT...........

What it comes down to me is:

Facts vs. Specuation:

Speculaiton:
1. Brooks\' leadership skills are what\'s holding the team back.
2. Brooks is holding the ball too long and not hitting open receivers.
3. Defenses don\'t worry about AB throwing the ball and therefore blitz the hell out of him.

Fact:
1. The offensive line sucks.
2. The defense sucks.

So, what do you fix first? What you know to be true? Or things that you are just speculating on?

Me? Well, I think I\'ll fix the KNOWN problems and see how everything else shakes out?

Car won\'t start? Don\'t buy a new car. Look under the hood and check your battery...





saintswhodi 02-04-2005 10:29 AM

Pass Blocking and McCarthy?
 
But if that car thinks it\'s great and can run without the battery, you need a new car. ;)

FrenzyFan 02-04-2005 11:16 AM

Pass Blocking and McCarthy?
 
Quote:

Maybe I\'m in the minority here.........BUT...........

What it comes down to me is:

Facts vs. Specuation:

Speculaiton:
1. Brooks\' leadership skills are what\'s holding the team back.
2. Brooks is holding the ball too long and not hitting open receivers.
3. Defenses don\'t worry about AB throwing the ball and therefore blitz the hell out of him.

Fact:
1. The offensive line sucks.
2. The defense sucks.

So, what do you fix first? What you know to be true? Or things that you are just speculating on?

Me? Well, I think I\'ll fix the KNOWN problems and see how everything else shakes out?

Car won\'t start? Don\'t buy a new car. Look under the hood and check your battery...




Fact and speculation, interesting. I believe it is fact that we don\'t have the best O-Line in the league. I believe it is fact we don\'t have the best Defense in the league. I believe it is fact we don\'t have the best coaching.

I don\'t believe saying anything on our team \"sucks\" is fact - rather opinion. I believe that there is certainly room to improve everywhere on this team - across the board.

I still disagree with your analysis that our O-line was terrible. I simply didn\'t see that. I saw that our O-line is not great, about middle of the road for the league. There are many that are better. There are many that are worse. I definitely think I would spend some money fixing it.

By the same token I see that the QBs that you mentioned are the best in the league, period. I certainly don\'t see Aaron Brooks in that light. Those QBs you mentioned also get blitzed and hurried. It does not appear to rattle them and they appear capable of audible-ing to the check-down guy. Something I so rarely see AB do, that I literally stand and cheer each time he does it.

Those QBs you mentioned are experts at seeing a defense, and reacting to it extremely quickly. I am equally certain that enemy Defensive Coordinators also see that and plan accordingly, much as they analyze our QB\'s abilities and plan whatever defenses they think will work against us.

It seems that we get blitzed a lot. I notice that the QBs you mentioned do not. I have not fully decided if that is the fault of our O-Line or our QB - I think it is combination of both.

If I were to place my self in the shoes of an enemy defensive coordinator, here\'s how I see it: I would probably blitz the Saints a lot, as well, run blitzes on first down and short yardage, and pass blitzes whenever I have them in a long yardage . I see that their O-line is only average and my blitzers will get there. I see that their QB is flighty and uncomfortable during blitzes. I see that their QB takes a little longer to make decisions and often does not seem to know which direction the blitz is coming from until it is too late.

Considering what I see, I believe blitzing us is a great strategy to use against us because of the O-line\'s only average play and the QBs seeming lack of ability to read and react quickly.

Just my opinion.


BayouCajun 02-04-2005 12:21 PM

Pass Blocking and McCarthy?
 
Just blitz on the opposite side that Joe is lined up on.

FireVenturi 02-04-2005 05:07 PM

Pass Blocking and McCarthy?
 
Quote:

Those of you that have been here a while probably can remember me complaining about the offensive line\'s PASS blocking way back in 2003.

That was the same year Deuce rushed for 1,600 yards.

Anyway, after every game, many folks would come here and begin to tell us why they thought the Saints lost.

And......... just about every Sunday I would complain that the offensive line was doing a terrible job of blocking.

But, many of you would point to the stats Deuce was putting up in the running game. And I\'d say that had nothing to do with the PASS blocking.

It really frustrated me that some of you weren\'t talking about the poor blocking by the offensive line in 2003.

What does this have to do with anything, you ask?

Well, I\'m going to try and tie in a few points here...

1. In 2003 we ran an offense that included a fullback and one tighted as our base offense.

2. In 2004 McCarthy deciced he wanted to go to the \"spread\" offense\".

Last off-season many of us dicussed the \"spread\" offense that was going to be used in 2004. Many of us envisioned a high flying, big play offense.

But, there was ONE big thing that prevented the \"spread\" offense from being effective.

And that problem was the offensive line.

In 2003 the offensive line didn\'t look as bad as 2004. But, I believe the reason they didn\'t look as bad was because the offensive line had a fullback and a TE to help out in the pass protection. And sometimes they even had 2 tightends to help with pass protection.

That wasn\'t the case in 2004 and we got a very CLEAR look at just how ineffective our offensive tackles were. Gandy and Riley just couldn\'t get the job done without any help.

Brooks really got killed against some of the better pass rushing teams. The first Buc and Panther game comes to mind.

Even though McCarthy could see Gandy and Riley letting their man come clean to our QB, he insisted on giving them no help blocking.

It really baffled me as to why McCarthy didn\'t call more max-protect when it was obvious our offensive line couldn\'t get it done.

Well.....in the last game against the Panthers, McCarthy did go max-protect in the passing game and the Panthers great pass rushers were really ineffective. Peppers and crew didn\'t sack AB even one time, if memory serves me correctly.

This is kind of long, so bear with me........

I beleive good coaches are good because they can hide their teams weaknesses and play to their strengths. In other words, the good coahes don\'t wait for 8 or 9 games before they come up with a way to fix a weakness.

Instead of McCarthy going to an offesive alignment that would help our O-line pass block, he insisted on trying to spread the field with 3 and 4 receiver sets.

While have 3 and 4 receivers on the field gives a QB more options to throw to, it doesn\'t do very much good if your QB only has 2 or 3 seconds to make a decision.

I\'d rather have 2 receivers and 5 or 6 seconds to let of of those receivers come open.

This is getting too long, so, I\'m going to wrap this up.

Some of you might point out that McCarthy reguarly used a 2 tightend set. But that was mainly in the running game. In the passing game he played the \"spread\" offense for the majority of the passing plays.

And I believe that might be one reason Haslett was upset with McCarthy.

Thoughts?













[Edited on 4/2/2005 by GumboBC]
Plain and simple...we should have done what NE does...before TE\'s and Rb\'s do their route they chip somebody...I guess that wasn\'t in that telephone book he called a playbook.

spkb25 02-04-2005 07:34 PM

Pass Blocking and McCarthy?
 
frenzy i would have to disagree on our pass blocking and on riley. from what i saw this year it appeared that what opposing d\'s were doing to us was blitzing. and when they did boy that had success. our o line was a real problem this year. arron has his own problems. as far as riley the reason i disagree with you isnt because of his weight. i had read somewhere (it may have been nola.com or on the way we hear it link on the website) that riley is a huge cancer in the locker room. that he has been in arguments and fights with several guys and that his work ethic is no good. as much as i agree we do need to replace gandy i would first replace that guy. then worry about gandy. but i do agree we need a stud tackle. we need to go and get one this year


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