One more time... Our linebackers!!
 

First, I wanna talk about Courtney Watson.

Watson has had only one year, and I understand that.

But, I saw nothing in 2004 that convinces me he will EVER be the player we need. I didn't see any flashes of his physical ablitiy that would lead me to believe he's the answer.

I saw Sam Mills his first year. I knew right away he was special.

I've seen many more MLB in their first year that at least "flashed" signs of greatness.

If I were a betting man, and I am, I would say Watson is going to be average.


Considering MLB is one of the most important positions on defense, I think this should be a BIG priority.

About Colby Bockwoldt.... I don't know what any of you saw. But I saw a 6th round draft pick making a lot of plays on his own. I was very impressed with this kid. I'm not sold, but I'm very optimistic about him.

James Allen........ I really didn't see him do that much. He deserves another look. And I'm not saying any of our linebackers don't deserve another shot of being the starters.

But, IMO, it's just too big of a risk going with who we have or bringing in some other middle of the road prospects.

IMO, we either need to draft a highly rated LB or bring one in in FA.

I really don't want to go into next season with what we have and have no altenative.

So.........while Haslett is trying to upgrade the saftety position... I'm concerned about LBs...

One more time... Our linebackers!!
 

Let me see if I get this straight

You\'re predicting Watson to be average, after his first year, yet, you think Allen deserves a 2nd look after his 3rd season?

Al Wilson and Dan Morgan must have looked pretty average to you in their rookie seasons as well.

One more time... Our linebackers!!
 

Watson may go on to be great. Hell, I really don\'t know.

But, what I do know is there is just a big of a chance that he will never be anything but average.

He wasn\'t considered to be a big time player coming out of college. Which is why he went in the 2nd round.

If you look at the top linebackers in the NFL, more times than not, they were highly rated coming out of college and were 1st round draft picks..

I may have said the same thing about Al Wilson and Dan Morgan. And those two players have done well.

But, BlackandBlue, what makes you think Courtney Watson is going to be a probowl player.

All I\'m saying is its mighty risky.

One more time... Our linebackers!!
 

Was Sam Mills even drafted? Didn\'t he come from the USFL or something with Mora? Seth Joyner was an 8th round lb. Boss Bailer was 2nd round. E.J. Henderson was also. Will witherspoon was 3rd round. Larry Foote who is a stud for Pittsburgh was 1 4th rounder, Andra Davis for Cleveland was a 5th rounder. So I guess I can see both of your points. Gumbo, first rounders generally produce better LBs than later, but later LBs can be quite successful. There seems to be no clear cut line as to where they are drafted produces what kinda talent. Robert Thomas for St. Luois ain\'t that great and he was a first rounder. Nick Barnett for the Packers is okay but he was a first rounder. Buffalo drafted Erik flowers in the first round in 2000 I don\'t think he has ever done much. Basically all this just says it\'s too early to tell.

One more time... Our linebackers!!
 

saintwhodi --

It is too early to tell about Watson. And I don\'t have the exact numbers on the success or 1st round LBs vs. those drafted in the 2nd round or lower.

My guess is, 1st round draft choices do better than the late round picks. I think the futher you go down in the draft, the more the odds decrease that you find a keeper.

That\'s really not the point I was trying to make, though..

My whole arguement is based on my belief that the MLB position is one of the most important on defense.

And that\'s where Courtney Watson resides. If it were outside linebacker, I wouldn\'t be as concerned.

But, it\'s middle linebacker and I am very concerned...

It\'s not that I think Courtney Watson can\'t get it done. It\'s that I think its too risky and try. At least for this upcoming year.

I would get a proven MLB or draft a highly rated one and increase my odds that we have properly addressed the MLB position. If not, then we have no other options at MLB next year. It\'s Watson or bust...

That doesn\'t exactly leave me feeling comfortable.

If we did find a stud MLB, Watson could always move to the outside or be used in situational duty...

One more time... Our linebackers!!
 

saintwhodi --

PS --


Sam Mills was not drafted. I was talking about is rookie year in the NFL.

[Edited on 4/2/2005 by GumboBC]

One more time... Our linebackers!!
 

OK Billy, how would you rank our LB\'s going into next year?
And your concerned about replacing Watson?
LMAO!
I\'d say Watson has showed more in his rookie year than any LB on this team has ever shown.

[Edited on 4/2/2005 by Danno]

One more time... Our linebackers!!
 

Danno -

You\'re a smart guy. But saying that Watson is the best linebacker on this Saints team isn\'t exactly a ringing endorsement!!

Instead, I think that shows you how weak we are at linebacker.

You want me to feel confindent with only having Watson at the \"critical\" MLB spot? Not happening.

And you want me to feel comfortable with Watson \'cause that\'s the best we got?

Not today........Not tomorrow.....And not come first game of next year either.

I wonder how many teams Watson would be starting on other than the Saints?

Tampa? No.
Falcons? No.
Carolina. No.
Dallas? No.
Rams? No.
Philly? No.
Green Bay? No.
Buffalo? No.
Jets? No.
Pittsburg? No.


Should I go on? Because I could probably list 25 teams that Watson would not start on.

I\'m glad you feel good. I only wish I did.

One more time... Our linebackers!!
 

I think that\'s why most of us want to get Hartwell or Bell. Then Watson could move to the outside. Unless he gets bigger and stronger, then I would be very satisfied with him on the middle.

One more time... Our linebackers!!
 

I never said he would be pro-bowl. But I\'m not ready to give up on a player after his rookie season. I saw him make some plays. They were few and far between, but he made a few. I chalked that up to rookie errors.

I\'ll give you that. But that can be said about any draft pick, across the board, regardless of when he was selected.

I won\'t be passing judgement on any rookie after his first season, with the exception of the 1st rounder. To a degree, they are the only one\'s (outside of a few exceptions) that are expected to not only start, but make an impact on the team. Will Smith is a perfect example. He made plays for this defense. It took him a few games to get the feel for the NFL, but he progressed throughout the season.

You are 100% correct. Every playmaking MLB that pops into mind was selected in the 1st round. Fletcher and Bruschi are the ONLY two that I can think of that was not selected in the 1st, and that\'s a long list. Morgan, Wilson, Barrett, Urlacher, Lewis, Brookings, Vilma, Brooks...so yes, I think the odds are with you in that aspect.


[Edited on 4/2/2005 by BlackandBlue]

One more time... Our linebackers!!
 

Then why single him out?
Thats all sweet and good Billy. But I\'ve said a few times now I\'d like to see 4 new LB\'s on the 2005 Saints.
And of all the LB\'s we have, the only one I\'m OK with is the one guy you call out.
You may be OK with Allen, Hodge, Bockwoldt, Knight, Ruff, and Rodgers, but not me.
Not today........Not tomorrow.....And not come first game of next year either.
Because I could name 31 teams these guys would not start on. I\'m glad you feel good. I only wish I did. ;)

I\'d love it if the the only returning LB in 2005 is the guy you\'re NOT OK with, Coutney Watson.
And I do think he\'d challenge to take over the MLB spot on over 1/2 the teams you listed.
Can you say that about ANY other LB on this team? Not hardly.

One more time... Our linebackers!!
 

Come on, Danno...

I\'m not a Courtney Watson hater. I don\'t have anything against the guy.

But, honestly, I just don\'t know what anyone has seen from him that makes you think he\'s going to be the GUY!!

I\'m not much into draft status as a determing factor in how a player is going to work out. Yeah, I used odds......but forget that for now.

Watson made a few plays here and there. But, he really didn\'t make that much of an impact.

Am I missing something here?

Danno... What did Coutney do that gives you so much hope?

The only thing I can say is he gets a pass from me because he was a rookie. He didn\'t suck. But, then again, he didn\'t do anything to make me think he\'s the guy.

Buckwoldt, on the other hand, actually showed me more than Watson. I\'m not sold on the guy, but he stood out more to me than Watson.

I\'m all for upgrading Colby\'s spot.

But, the MLB is a more critical position and that\'s why I\'m singling it out..

One more time... Our linebackers!!
 

That doesn\'t suprise me. Playing WLB affords him the opportunities to stand out more than a MLB would, under these conditions.
I\'ll pop in some games this weekend, from this past year, and break down some of Watson\'s play. I\'m not sure he\'s our guy or not. But I remember raising my eyebrow on a few plays this guy made, and am now curious as to what they were, given that I don\'t remember the specifics.

One more time... Our linebackers!!
 

as far as LB\'S go there is so much more that go\'s into it then just their ability to play. i mean if your d line struggles so will your linebackers. thats a fact of life. you can get by with mediocre talent at lb if your d line is out of this world. a lot of the times if your d line is great your lb\'s will be great or at least appear that way. i dont know about courtney watson but i think anyone would be hard pressed to find anyone on this d that played well the first 12 games. except maybe grant. what i do know is that when those three guys started lb for us the last 4 games and mckenzie started playig better at safety and willie came back and our d line started playing better well we had better results. i dont think any team can ever hurt itslef by trying to upgrade at a position or bringing people in to challenge the starters at those positions. so to bring in some other guys is to challeng them is always a great idea. i think AB is proof of that. let they guy know he\'s the guy no matter what and look what happens. even with duece maybe. mayve he did come in out of shape this year. maybe that was because he thought the job was his no matter what. right now though i dont mind our LB\'S. but i also dont mind bringing in some more talent at that position to challenge them and also if the results go bad again next year then replace them. as far as bockwoldt go\'s i could care less where that kid was drafted. he has a knack for the game. he tackles really well. he always and maybe im wrong but always seems to be around the ball. if we let this kid go he\'s going to be a star on another team. the right size and the right speed doesnt always matter. sometimes you just have to be able to play the game. a lot of guys complaine about tebucky on here and that is not without merit. he has great size and spped but he still has problems tackling at times. i cant say bockwoldt will ever make the pro bowl. nor do i really care. i think he will be a solid starter for us. you dont have to have guys that always make the probowl to be good. all they have to be able to do is play their position and make the play when they need to. hey right now going into next season i\'d be happy with that. just dont be all over the place like a fish out of water. how mnay times honestly did our d looked confused on plays. no idea where to be still searching when the o hiked the ball. something worng there. so thats my input. i like those three guys but would never mind seeing us draft a really good LB or bring one in through free agency.

One more time... Our linebackers!!
 

To be honest, I was more impressed with Colby than Courtney this past season. Watson looked very lost at time, which is understandable because he\'s a rookie, and had a very hard time shedding blockers. His tackles came like 5 yards down the field. But he\'s athletic so you never know. He might bulk up and become the next... nevermind I really can\'t compare is playing style to anyone. haha! Remember I\'m not saying he\'s not going to be great, I\'m saying he has a lot more to learn to get there. In no way I\'m saying give up on the guy or let him sit on the bench. You have to play to improve and I think he will.

One more time... Our linebackers!!
 

papz i agree

One more time... Our linebackers!!
 

We may be a bit unfair when it comes to grading our Defense...

As long as Venturi is in any way associated with this team...We will Fail...

It\'s like having Gomer Pyle in charge of your job..how can you possibly suceed when you have a MORON calling all the shots?...

Don\'t fool yourselves guys...we still have the worst Defense in the League..and the main reason is the Leader...until the players just flat out revolt against him...they will continue to be judged in a bad light...It\'s like the Blind leading the Blind...

Since noone who has an authoritative position has made any sort of move on the Defense, as far as Coordinator goes, ...we can expext much of the same results...no matter who we sign, or draft...

I wish that we didn\'t have to waste another year looking like fools, while Venturi makes the team look more and more like a candidate for the Special Olympics Flag Football contest...

But...this is one giant sh*t sandwich..and we all have to take a bite...

Open wide Boys...haha

One more time... Our linebackers!!
 

Watson finished fifth on the team in tackles, and he was replaced by Ruff as the starter somewhere around the sixth game. That is pretty solid work by Watson. Buckwoldt finished 10th in tackles, and he did even get on the field until the final 3rd of the season.

Having seen very little, it is my impression that Watson isn\'t that comfortable at MLB. He seems to me to be better suited for WLB where backing up and read and react are not as big a problem. I only got to see Buckwoldt play in one game, so I have little to contribute there.

Let\'s get a stud MLB and a second LB to compete with Watson and Buckwoldt (who in my opinion don\'t suck - they were rookies after all) in FA.