AB doomed Braylon Edwards
 

and almost hurt Mark Clayton as well with awful passes at the College Football Challenge on Fox. Other than that, if he put some touch on some of those balls he throws to our guys, we may see a new AB.

AB doomed Braylon Edwards
 

Joe Horn don\'t seem to have no trouble catching \'em. ;)

AB doomed Braylon Edwards
 

But Boo, Pathon, Conwell, and Donte do. ;)

AB doomed Braylon Edwards
 

I wonder how Joe Horn can catch all those passes from AB and go to the probowl and our other receivers can\'t?

I suppose AB only throws good passes to Horn..

If Brooiks only had more leadership then those other guys would hang on to the damn ball.. ;)

AB doomed Braylon Edwards
 

Either leadership, or a new team. I vote the latter. :P

AB doomed Braylon Edwards
 

How about Horn seems to run more deep routes?
But then how is this even a discussion? Joe is one of the best WRs in the league, of course he catches more.

AB doomed Braylon Edwards
 

After talking to some of you guys about leadership, I\'m now convinced that leadership is the problem with our receivers..

I think if Brooks showed more leadership that Donte\', Boo, Conwell, and Pathon would catch the ball as consistently as Joe Horn.

I think Joe Horn just doesn\'t require as much leadership as the other receivers do.

That probably holds true for Wayne Gandy and Victor Riley too. Those two guys need some more leadership at the QB position.

Now, doesn\'t that just sound crazy?

AB doomed Braylon Edwards
 

Well, considering the source. :P

AB doomed Braylon Edwards
 

Jokes aside, don\'t you think certain QBs inspire the players around them to try harder? Look at Favre. Donald Driver, Robert Brooks, Antonio Freeman. Those guys WERE NOT pro bowl caliber receivers, but they made the pro bowl with Favre throwing them the ball. Why? Cause Favre\'s receivers WANT to be their best. You think Peyton\'s receivers want to play better cause of him? I do. Those are leaders. If there is a guy I barely wanna play with throwing me the ball, and I feel he is not a leader or not the guy to take my team in the right direction, I ain\'t killing myself for him. I am gonna do just enough, but not over and beyond. Leadership often times is enough to get you over that hump. Think Brady\'s receivers see him as a leader? I sure as hell do. How about McNabb\'s receivers? As crappy as they had been, I know they see him as the leader.

AB doomed Braylon Edwards
 

Oh, we\'re getting somewhere now....

That\'s the way you feel and that\'s fine......Not knocking you.

But, speaking for myself, I give 100% at my job and I always have. Even since I was a kid.

And I\'ve worked for some real idiots if you know what I mean. Didn\'t matter to me though. I wanted to be successful. I wanted to show what I could do and move up in the company.

Some of my co-workers didn\'t like working for the boss we had. Some went on to other companies and, believe it or not, they really didn\'t like their next boss to well either.

Those co-workers I\'m speaking of are some of the same friends I still have now. They haven\'t gone anywhere in life, and I expect they never will.

People are successful because they have an inner desire to be succesful.

They hold themselves accoutable and there\'s really nothing anyone can do for them

I think that\'s true for a lot of the players on the Saints.

They need to have that burning desire to be great. And I don\'t think Aaron Brooks or anyone else is going to be able to give it to them...

AB doomed Braylon Edwards
 

saintswhodi --

I\'m pretty good at reading people. And you don\'t seem like the type of person who doesn\'t give 100%... no matter who your boss might be.

You seem too competetive to be like that. At least on here.

I think you just said that to try and prove a point? ;)

AB doomed Braylon Edwards
 

Definitely. I am all out at MOST things I do, not everything. But from being in the Army, and in military intelligence no less, I have seen how shoddy leadership can effect morale and effort given. I had my down days too, but more often than not I always gave my all. I had many fellow soldiers though who did not simply cause they did not believe in the ability of those leading them. And low morale is like a virus, it spreads and soon more and more are not believing in the leadership and it gets bad all around. I just know from experience how much poor leadership can doom you and how much competent leadership can help.

AB doomed Braylon Edwards
 

I think you\'re both pretty close to being right.

I think players should put out 100% regardless of who the QB is or whatever. Catching balls is the main thing WRs are supposed to do. Since our guys are having trouble with it, I can only say that they aren\'t focusing as they should. That\'s their problem.

On the other side, some leaders can take a group of individuals and make them more than they were capable of without that leader. AB lacks the ability to do this.

Catching passes shouldn\'t be as difficult as some of our WR, including Horn, are making it out to be. Someof this must be physiological in that we all know AB throws darts and bullets without much, if any, touch on the ball. He\'s got a strong arm and it\'s got to be pretty difficult to catch a hard thrown ball - especially on short routes. It may be impossible but an investigation into how far downfield most of the drops occur may prove this to be the case.

AB doomed Braylon Edwards
 

I can agree with that. But not how it relates to Aaron Brooks.

Here\'s the thing. Leaders need to have the ability to make changes if they can\'t get their followers to follow.

In the military, the personell have ranks. The higher the rank, the more power they have. In other words, a general can cause a soldier to suffer if he doesn\'t do his job. If he didn\'t have that ability, I suspect there would be chaos and you\'d have a bunch of soldiers that didn\'t try nearly as hard. Afterall, there would be no concequinces to suffer.

I don\'t see where Brooks can do anything to a player. He can\'t put him on the bench. He can\'t cut him. He can\'t do too much.

So, leadership at the QB position is much different than a general in the military.

Maybe Haslett is the one who isn\'t a great leader?

He\'s the one that\'s got the power.

Now, I think if we\'ve got some players who need Brooks in order to get their act together, then we really need to look at those players closely.

I know of NO player on the offense who Brooks could help.

Do you?

AB doomed Braylon Edwards
 

This isn\'t about who Brooks can \"help.\" It is about how improved leadership from him may cause others players around him to react. Can affect how much effort they put out. Players can help themselves, but they are human. They aren\'t robots. You can\'t say do your job no matter what your personal feelings are cause no matter if they get paid to do that or not, they are humans. Leadership from Brooks may cayse his lineman to dig in harder on a block, may cause Donte to cut harder on a route, may cause a RB to put his head down for that extra yard. He doesn\'t have to \"help\" anyone. What he should be able to do is lay it on the line every game, which you know he doesn\'t, and inspire his teammates to do the same, which we know he doesn\'t. People tend to see football players as robots who should do their jobs no matter what. I don\'t. I realize many factors effect how you perform, and Brooks\' inability or unwillingness to grab a leadership role effects this team more than can be measured I feel. But ti\'s all a matter of opinion and how you feel about leadership. You see it as diddly poo. That\'s cool. I and many others do not.

AB doomed Braylon Edwards
 

Besides that one pass to Edwards he looked fine to me, but AB is the only Qb in the NFL who throws some bad passes.....not

AB doomed Braylon Edwards
 

That is cause they can\'t catch :casstet:

AB doomed Braylon Edwards
 

Yea and he throws the ball to hisself :casstet:

AB doomed Braylon Edwards
 

I think some of you are getting inspiration and leadership confused.

Inspiration is the abiltiy to inspire.

Leadership is the ability to lead.

While inspiration can come from a leader, it really doesn\'t have that much to do with being a leader.

Leaders generally have the abilty to make life tough on someone when they are perfoming poorly.

That\'s true of just about any leader:

1. The C.E.O of a company has the power to fire one of his employees.
2. Your boss has the ability to fire you.
3. An Army General has the abiltiy to make a soldiers life miserable.

I don\'t know of many leaders, if any, who don\'t have the power to make changes or punish anyone.

Any leader in the military has the power to punish someone if they aren\'t doing their job properly. That\'s powerful stuff, man.

The military isn\'t set up the way it is for no reason. There are rules and regulations. And there are \"ranks\".

Imagine for a moment if a general didn\'t have the power to punish any of his soldiers? How effective do you think that general would be if he had no power? You think all those soldiers would listen to him if he couldn\'t make their life miserable?

If General McAuthor told me to do 100 push-ups and I knew there wasn\'t a damn thing he could do to me if I didn\'t, then, I probably ain\'t gonna do them.

But if I knew McAuthor was going to send me to Iceland if I didn\'t do them....then......I\'d say......SIR......YES SIR.....RIGHT AWAY SIR!!!!!!

No punishment............I don\'t follow!!

Punishment.............I follow.

Brooks lacks the power to punish any of the players if they aren\'t getting it done. That\'s a BIG disatvantage.

Now, as far as Brooks inspiring someone. I\'ll let ya\'ll ponder that.

AB doomed Braylon Edwards
 

As simple as I can put this: Leaders inspire. Non-leaders who runs their mouths don\'t.

AB doomed Braylon Edwards
 

Fire Venturi, I don\'t know if you saw Boo at Arkansas or Donte at Tennessee or Pathon with Indy or Conwell in St. Louis, but all of them most certainly can catch. It seems to be something about being here that is effecting them. I only wonder what it could be.

AB doomed Braylon Edwards
 

I hate to even start down this road..but..here goes...what if BROOKS doesn\'t have the desire in himself to do 100% ? That, in effect, would dampen the inspiration and in turn kills the leadership. Most other positions on the offense are just one-dimensional, if Horn, for example, decides not to play a 100% it only effects the outcome of his particular position and play. Yes, it hurts the team as a whole but you can always go to another receiver or running back for that spark. If the QB fails in inspiration and leadership if effects every position on the team.

AB doomed Braylon Edwards
 

True dat.

AB doomed Braylon Edwards
 

Didn\'t see the same DOnte I saw at Tenn. I was screaming for us to draft Lelie instead of Donte for that reason.

AB doomed Braylon Edwards
 

The Donte\' I saw at Tennesse was a gamebreaker, but he had decent quarterbacking, yes Clausen I believe it was. He was high on a lot of draft board for that ability. I don\'t see how he would come to the pros and regress, although injuries have hampered him every year but this one. HE still doesn\'t have a consistent QB. One minute he is rifling a slant into the dirt and the next he is floating a deep ball over his head. Kinda hard to get a rhythm like that.

AB doomed Braylon Edwards
 

Or dropping a ball in his hands

AB doomed Braylon Edwards
 

Exactly. I repeat again, kinda hard to get in a rhythm like that.

AB doomed Braylon Edwards
 

Gumbo, I\'m not really picking on you here, but -

I believe that leadership is the accumulation of small successes (inspirations) that transcend an individual\'s contribution and the group\'s dependence on that individual\'s reliability and good judgment.

Inspiration is the result of an (usually) uplifting effort. As in, \"His heroics on the football field were an INSPIRATION to us all.\"

Inspiration is not an ability. Inspiration is bourne from acts of genius and leadership and daring. It is the crossing of untamed boundaries. It is a final product upon which a superlative value is placed.

When addressing any member of the Saints, it is important to delineate between the action and attitude. It cannot be argued that there have been many moments where there has been inspired play and leaders to acclaim.

The frustration that I have is that there appear to be certain boundaries that key components (or any for that matter) cannot or will not dare to cross. It is true that success is 10% inspiration and 90% perspiration. The boundary that this group has yet to cross is that between HOPE and EXPECTATION.

Joe Horn EXPECTS to catch the pass because he EXPECTS the ball to be thrown to him, whether the play is designed toward him or not. Sure, he drops passes, who doesn\'t, but, like in Michael Lewis\' \"Moneyball\", the difference between an All-Star hitter and a minor leaguer is their ability to forget the last strikeout and focus on the next at bat, negating the value-judgment castigation or self-reverence of the previous result.

Great leaders go right back to the guy who made a mistake to show his confidence and offer redemption. Great fools continue to make the same mistake without learning.

Brooks has the ability to punish by altering plays to distance the ball from a skill player or direct the angle of attack away from the weak link. Just as he has the ability to reinforce confidence by doing the opposite. The ultimate question is whether he has the judement to understand when to apply the \"reward/punishment\" system in ways that his teammates understand and in ways that move the team toward its goals.

Yet it isn\'t limited to LEON, here. His coaches have to field the blame for placing him in situations where he will fail either to execute or make good judgment. His teammates have to not make things harder on themselves (and LEON) by doing stupid things like pre-snap penalties. But enough about accepting responsibility for one\'s \"inspirations.\"

In sum, leadership is derived from repeated acts of boundary crossing inspiration and the seemingly contradictory act of ignoring that previous result (except to learn the \"why\") to focus the group on the task at hand. It is the core of the debate as to whether Aaron Brooks should be allowed to continue in his role.