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Has Payton lost his nerve?

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; My Wife and I were watching the game and one of the biggest disappointments in the game, for us, was that 4th down out of the endzone when we chose to punt. My Wife was screaming 'Why!?' and I was ...

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Old 09-19-2015, 12:33 AM   #1
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Has Payton lost his nerve?

My Wife and I were watching the game and one of the biggest disappointments in the game, for us, was that 4th down out of the endzone when we chose to punt. My Wife was screaming 'Why!?' and I was puzzled as if we went down going for it I would have accepted it more. Now I am sure some of you on here think it was right to punt but my question is this: Do you think the Payton today would have called that onsides kick in the Superbowl?
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Old 09-19-2015, 12:53 AM   #2
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Re: Has Payton lost his nerve?

Let Drew call his own plays.
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Old 09-19-2015, 12:57 AM   #3
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Re: Has Payton lost his nerve?

I definitely think so.

Since he came back after 2012 he doesn't seem to be the aggressive coach that won us the Superbowl.

He's very conservative now and often gets out coached.
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Old 09-19-2015, 01:52 AM   #4
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Re: Has Payton lost his nerve?

Payton is just way too predictable

Inside the red zone
Roll out in the flat or Ingram up the middle. Stuffed

What worked great in 2011 and against your practice squad doesn't work on sunday

Without Brees tor stretch things he doesn't have a chance
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Old 09-19-2015, 07:07 AM   #5
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Re: Has Payton lost his nerve?

I think he's gotten too technical and complicated.
Last count it was still 11-on-11, every man grab a man.
Different packages for different plays is what gives him away.
Defenses see way more film than I do and I know what's coming based on his lineups.
I just couldn't wrap my mind around that decision to punt.
I would NOT have given up the ball, down a score and minimal clock.
They would have to take the ball away after exhausting every effort.
Keeping the ball was their only "real" chance to pull the game out.
It's still early. The dust is still settling.
Week 2 at home should give us some clarity as to where we really are.

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Old 09-19-2015, 08:47 AM   #6
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Re: Has Payton lost his nerve?

Wasn't Mike Smith and the failclowns in a similar situation a few years ago against the Saints? I think it was the game that Brees broke Marino's record.
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Old 09-19-2015, 10:15 AM   #7
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Re: Has Payton lost his nerve?

I don't think it was a case of Payton losing his nerve, I think he just knew the offense wasn't going to be able to get it done.....

Other than a handful of big plays, the offense had done NOTHING of note all day....beyond that nice catch by Snead and a big rumbling YAC run by Ingram, they really weren't moving the ball well AT ALL. They had previously missed a 3rd and 5, a 3rd and 9, had a pick on 3rd down, and on the three plays immediately right before the 4th down, Colston had two sad drops in a row and Drew threw a short useless dump-off to Ingram. In the previous couple of series, Khiry and Ingram were getting like a measley 1 yard a pop on the ground. Not much to inspire confidence there.

So I say Payton didn't lose his nerve, he just got sick of watching the offense and decided he'd seen enough....he knew that whatever he tried to do there, it very likely wasn't gonna work.

Then, on the other hand, there was also NO WAY the Saints defense was going to stop the Cardinals from scoring a TD at that point, if the Cards got the ball back right there on the Saints 7. They were probably going to score again anyway, no matter what, even after the Saints punted, but that way there was at least a chance the Saints could stop them, from a longer distance. So given the state of his offense and defense ON THAT DAY, there was really no choice there for Payton, but to punt it away.

The only reason why the Saints were even still alive in the game at that point, was because of periodic mistakes or miscues gifted to them by the Cardinals: gifting us first downs on penalties (this directly led to the Coleman TD), blown tackles, etc. The Saints would have had to hope the Cardinals made a gift-wrapped miracle mistake on that 4th down and 6 play, for them to pick up the first. Gaining 4 yards on a checkdown or screen or handoff, would not have worked.

Not losing his confidence. There was nothing on the play sheet or with the players on the field, that would have reliably worked there. Tough day at the office for Payton.

Last edited by SaintsBro; 09-19-2015 at 10:17 AM..
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Old 09-19-2015, 10:28 AM   #8
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Re: Has Payton lost his nerve?

They were probably going to score again anyway, no matter what, even after the Saints punted, but that way there was at least a chance the Saints could stop them, from a longer distance. So given the state of his offense and defense ON THAT DAY, there was really no choice there for Payton, but to punt it away.

The only reason why the Saints were even still alive in the game at that point, was because of periodic mistakes or miscues gifted to them by the Cardinals: gifting us first downs on penalties (this directly led to the Coleman TD), blown tackles, etc. The Saints would have had to hope the Cardinals made a gift-wrapped miracle mistake on that 4th down and 6 play, for them to pick up the first. Gaining 4 yards on a checkdown or screen or handoff, would not have worked.

Not losing his confidence. There was nothing on the play sheet or with the players on the field, that would have reliably worked there. Tough day at the office for Payton.[/QUOTE] Don't agree it was his only choice. Punt and even if we get the ball back, time would have wound down more. However, if we go for it and fail, we still lose but make it and we are still in with a shot and time to do it. Any failure would have lost us the game but by keeping the ball there was a chance of success.
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Old 09-19-2015, 10:31 AM   #9
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Re: Has Payton lost his nerve?

I don't know if he's lost his nerve or what, but his philosophy has definitely changed. I keep hearing or reading that we didn't go for it on 4th down because we weren't moving the ball, but I disagree with that excuse on two levels. For one, we realistically couldn't afford not to. We were going to be in a far worse situation, even if we had gotten the ball back. And second, we weren't having THAT much trouble moving the ball. It was the failure to sustain drives when we got in their territory, or the the failure to score touchdowns instead of field goals when we got in the red zone.

Playing scared is not playing safe. You don't play safe from behind.
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If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.
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Old 09-19-2015, 10:56 AM   #10
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Re: Has Payton lost his nerve?

Playing scared is not playing safe. You don't play safe from behind. THAT.
Sent wrong signal to offense: "no confidence in you". Everyone knows that the defense is rebuilding - lots of rookies and new talent so leave the game in the hands of the "hall of famer" and best unit at the present; but no: Let the defense fail - blame it on Ryan. Payton needs to get his own attitude right.
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