Joe Horn ranks last in the NFL in YAC

WhoDat · 02-15-2005, 08:17 AM

Joe, IMO, ranks somewhere in the top 10 to 15 WR\'s in the game.

Or top five. Go look it up. I posted a while back and showed that statistically, Joe Horn\'s total receptions, yards, and TDs rank him 5th over the last 5 years, behind only Moss, Harrison, TO, and somebody else I can\'t remember. He\'s one of only five WRs to make the Pro Bowl 4 times in the last 5 years. He makes, on average, $4 million a year under his current (and most expensive to date) contract - whereas Randy Moss makes $9 million a year. You\'re telling me that Randy\'s YAC makes him twice as valuable as Joe Horn? Sure.

I love that all of a sudden the Saints are the highest passing team in the NFL - and that\'s why Horn has been successful for the last FIVE years. MAYBE you can draw a correllation this year, but not over the last five. Horn has proven himself with no other legitimate WR (see the \'03 season), another 1,000 yard WR (\'00 - Willie Jackson), no running game, a great running game, two QBs, injured. He shows up every single week. Period.

It\'s interesting that you use our one-dimensional offense as a crutch for AB, but then simultaneously suggest it helps Joe Horn. An minimally important stat like YAC is enough to dump Joe Horn, but AB\'s QB efficiency rating ranking him in the TWENTIES is irrellevant.

Even the media sees it. From Fox: \"As one of just five receivers to earn four Pro Bowl invitations the past five seasons, Horn wants and deserves a healthy raise.\"

Believe what you want. If

I will. Feel free yourself to continue believing that Aaron Brooks is the only good player on this team too. Hey, it\'s a free country.

saintfan · 02-15-2005, 08:21 AM

Horn has proven himself with no other legitimate WR

So then, by your own admission, you say AB has had ONE legitimate WR to throw to in the last five years (Unless we count Willie Jackson)? I actually agree with this, and have stated it many times, but the moonshiners whack me over the head everytime I suggest it. Nice to see it coming from the head moonshiner.

:soleil:

[Edited on 15/2/2005 by saintfan]

GumboBC · 02-15-2005, 08:25 AM

WhoDat --

You dance around every point I make. Let\'s end that!

I say Joe lacks the ablity to break the long one. Do you argree or disagree? No need to elaborate. A simple yes or no will do.

Since you\'re so fascinated with Joe\'s number of catches. Check this out:

Rod Smith:
1998 Denver 16 86 1222
1999 Denver 15 79 1020
2000 Denver 16 100 1602
2001 Denver 15 113 1343
2002 Denver 16 89 1027
2004 Denver 16 79 1144

Keyshawn Johnson:
1998 NY Jets 16 83 1131
1999 NY Jets 16 89 1170
2001 Tampa Bay 15 106 1266
2002 Tampa Bay 16 76 1088

Derrick Mason:
2001 Tennessee 15 73 1128
2002 Tennessee 14 79 1012
2003 Tennessee 16 95 1303
2004 Tennessee 16 96 1168

Hines Ward:
2001 Pittsburgh 16 94 1003
2002 Pittsburgh 16 112 1329
2003 Pittsburgh 16 95 1163
2004 Pittsburgh 16 80 1004

This elite list sure is growing. Growing to the point where \"elite\" doesn\'t mean a whole heck of a lot.

GumboBC · 02-15-2005, 08:35 AM

Horn has proven himself with no other legitimate WR

Thanks for pointing that out to me saintfan..

My, my my........... If I had a dollar for everytime you told me how great our receivers were, I would be out sipping on a pinacalda under a palm tree and not have to be here debating with you.

What\'s that word I\'m looking for ......ah.....Flippy Flop..lol

[Edited on 15/2/2005 by GumboBC]

Tobias-Reiper · 02-15-2005, 08:47 AM

... there was this guy who played for the Cowboys... who had virtually no YAC... he was always catching balls on his tippy-toes on the sidelines, or in the middle of the field in a lot of traffic... a lot of those were for crucial 3rd down plays and TD\'s... his nickname? \'The Playmaker\"... maybe my memory is staring to get foggy with age, but I don\'t remember seeing anyone make so many crucial catches in a game as Michael Irving...

YAC, yet another meaningless stat...

oh, had to add, speaking on the source of the FACT that Horn is last in the NFL on YAC, I didn\'t know there were only 28 WR\'s in all of the NFL...

[Edited on 15/2/2005 by Tobias-Reiper]

GumboBC · 02-15-2005, 08:54 AM

... there was this guy who played for the Cowboys... who had virtually no YAC... he was always catching balls on his tippy-toes on the sidelines, or in the middle of the field in a lot of traffic... a lot of those were for crucial 3rd down plays and TD\'s... his nickname? \'The Playmaker\"... maybe my memory is staring to get foggy with age, but I don\'t remember seeing anyone make so many crucial catches in a game as Michael Irving...

YAC, yet another meaningless stat...

oh, had to add, speaking on the source of the FACT that Horn is last in the NFL on YAC, I didn\'t know there were only 28 WR\'s in all of the NFL...

Joe Horn is no Michael Irvin. Just a meaningless comparison!

Tobias-Reiper · 02-15-2005, 08:56 AM

... there was this guy who played for the Cowboys... who had virtually no YAC... he was always catching balls on his tippy-toes on the sidelines, or in the middle of the field in a lot of traffic... a lot of those were for crucial 3rd down plays and TD\'s... his nickname? \'The Playmaker\"... maybe my memory is staring to get foggy with age, but I don\'t remember seeing anyone make so many crucial catches in a game as Michael Irving...

YAC, yet another meaningless stat...

oh, had to add, speaking on the source of the FACT that Horn is last in the NFL on YAC, I didn\'t know there were only 28 WR\'s in all of the NFL...

Joe Horn is no Michael Irvin. Just a meaningless comparison!

...to the Saints, he is...

WhoDat · 02-15-2005, 09:22 AM

Wow - you guys are suggesting that all this Horn talk was really just a smoke screen to make a point about Brooks? Whoda thunk it? LMAO.

Transparent.

I say Joe lacks the ablity to break the long one. Do you argree or disagree? No need to elaborate. A simple yes or no will do.

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Got it?
But sure Billy, let\'s look at your stats, shall we? I thought by now you would have learned your lesson, but I guess not.

I noticed that you only provided numbers for FIVE years for ONE WR, and Keyshawn\'s numbers aren\'t for the last five years. Hhhmmm - are you trying to skew things?!? NEVER!!

Here are the numbers for the guys you listed over the LAST FIVE years, according to NFL.com.

JOE HORN
437 Rec. for 6289 yards, and 45 TDs. 93 rec over 20 yards, 24 rec over 40 yards, and a long of 73 yards.

Hines Ward
429 Rec. for 5171 yards, and 34 TDs. 73 rec over 20 yards, 8 rec over 40 yards, and a long of 66 yards

Derrick Mason
406 Rec. for 5506 yards, and 34 TDs. 71 rec over 20 yards, 9 rec over 40 yards, and a long of 68 yards

Keyshawn Johnson
368 Rec. for 4809 yards, and 23 TDs. 69 rec over 20 yards, 2 rec over 40 yards, and a long of 67 yards

Rod Smith
455 Rec. for 5961 yards, and 34 TDs. 77 rec over 20 yards, 8 rec over 40 yards, and a long of 77 yards

So what did we learn? Horn is 2nd in receptions, 1st in yards, 1st in TDs by DOUBLE DIGITS, has TWENTY more 20+ yard receptions than the next guy, THREE TIMES as many 40+ yards receptions, and the 2nd longest rec, short by 4 yards.

Wait, wasn\'t the argument that Joe Horn couldn\'t break the long one? But he has far more 20+ and 40+ yard receptions than all the guys you mentioned Billy. How is that?!?!

LAST FIVE YEARS:

Joe Horn
20+ - 93
40+ - 24
Long: 73

Randy Moss
20+ - 96
40+ - 30
Long: 76

TO
20+ - 96
40+ - 29
Long: 70

Yeah - there\'s a HUGE difference there. Those guys average ONE HALF of a 20+ yard catch and ONE WHOLE 40+ yard catch more a season than Joe. One and a half more \"big\" gains! Joe Horn is CLEARLY down with the likes of Keyshawn Johnson.

Got another argument you\'d like to try.

WhoDat · 02-15-2005, 09:32 AM

Joe Horn is no Michael Irvin. Just a meaningless comparison!

You\'re right. Over his most successful 5 year period ever in his career, Michael Irvin had 21 40+ yard catches (LESS THAT JOE\'S 24 OVER THE LAST 5 YEARS), and 38 TDs (LESS THAN JOE\'S 45 OVER THE LAST 5 YEARS). He also had 449 Receptions - more than Joe\'s 437 by about 2 catches per year. Yeah, there\'s no comparison there - Despite having fewer touches Joe has more big plays. Joe is far more explosive than Irvin.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1214

Enjoy!! ROFLMAO.

WhoDat · 02-15-2005, 09:33 AM

Where\'s BnB with the Stalloned!! when you need him?

02-15-2005, 08:17 AM	#21
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Joe Horn ranks last in the NFL in YAC Joe, IMO, ranks somewhere in the top 10 to 15 WR\'s in the game. Or top five. Go look it up. I posted a while back and showed that statistically, Joe Horn\'s total receptions, yards, and TDs rank him 5th over the last 5 years, behind only Moss, Harrison, TO, and somebody else I can\'t remember. He\'s one of only five WRs to make the Pro Bowl 4 times in the last 5 years. He makes, on average, $4 million a year under his current (and most expensive to date) contract - whereas Randy Moss makes $9 million a year. You\'re telling me that Randy\'s YAC makes him twice as valuable as Joe Horn? Sure. I love that all of a sudden the Saints are the highest passing team in the NFL - and that\'s why Horn has been successful for the last FIVE years. MAYBE you can draw a correllation this year, but not over the last five. Horn has proven himself with no other legitimate WR (see the \'03 season), another 1,000 yard WR (\'00 - Willie Jackson), no running game, a great running game, two QBs, injured. He shows up every single week. Period. It\'s interesting that you use our one-dimensional offense as a crutch for AB, but then simultaneously suggest it helps Joe Horn. An minimally important stat like YAC is enough to dump Joe Horn, but AB\'s QB efficiency rating ranking him in the TWENTIES is irrellevant. Even the media sees it. From Fox: \"As one of just five receivers to earn four Pro Bowl invitations the past five seasons, Horn wants and deserves a healthy raise.\" Believe what you want. If I will. Feel free yourself to continue believing that Aaron Brooks is the only good player on this team too. Hey, it\'s a free country.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

02-15-2005, 08:21 AM	#22
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Joe Horn ranks last in the NFL in YAC Horn has proven himself with no other legitimate WR So then, by your own admission, you say AB has had ONE legitimate WR to throw to in the last five years (Unless we count Willie Jackson)? I actually agree with this, and have stated it many times, but the moonshiners whack me over the head everytime I suggest it. Nice to see it coming from the head moonshiner. :soleil: [Edited on 15/2/2005 by saintfan]

02-15-2005, 08:25 AM	#23
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Joe Horn ranks last in the NFL in YAC WhoDat -- You dance around every point I make. Let\'s end that! I say Joe lacks the ablity to break the long one. Do you argree or disagree? No need to elaborate. A simple yes or no will do. Since you\'re so fascinated with Joe\'s number of catches. Check this out: Rod Smith: 1998 Denver 16 86 1222 1999 Denver 15 79 1020 2000 Denver 16 100 1602 2001 Denver 15 113 1343 2002 Denver 16 89 1027 2004 Denver 16 79 1144 Keyshawn Johnson: 1998 NY Jets 16 83 1131 1999 NY Jets 16 89 1170 2001 Tampa Bay 15 106 1266 2002 Tampa Bay 16 76 1088 Derrick Mason: 2001 Tennessee 15 73 1128 2002 Tennessee 14 79 1012 2003 Tennessee 16 95 1303 2004 Tennessee 16 96 1168 Hines Ward: 2001 Pittsburgh 16 94 1003 2002 Pittsburgh 16 112 1329 2003 Pittsburgh 16 95 1163 2004 Pittsburgh 16 80 1004 This elite list sure is growing. Growing to the point where \"elite\" doesn\'t mean a whole heck of a lot.
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

02-15-2005, 08:35 AM	#24
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Joe Horn ranks last in the NFL in YAC Horn has proven himself with no other legitimate WR Thanks for pointing that out to me saintfan.. My, my my........... If I had a dollar for everytime you told me how great our receivers were, I would be out sipping on a pinacalda under a palm tree and not have to be here debating with you. What\'s that word I\'m looking for ......ah.....Flippy Flop..lol [Edited on 15/2/2005 by GumboBC]
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

02-15-2005, 08:47 AM	#25
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Joe Horn ranks last in the NFL in YAC ... there was this guy who played for the Cowboys... who had virtually no YAC... he was always catching balls on his tippy-toes on the sidelines, or in the middle of the field in a lot of traffic... a lot of those were for crucial 3rd down plays and TD\'s... his nickname? \'The Playmaker\"... maybe my memory is staring to get foggy with age, but I don\'t remember seeing anyone make so many crucial catches in a game as Michael Irving... YAC, yet another meaningless stat... oh, had to add, speaking on the source of the FACT that Horn is last in the NFL on YAC, I didn\'t know there were only 28 WR\'s in all of the NFL... [Edited on 15/2/2005 by Tobias-Reiper]
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02-15-2005, 08:54 AM	#26
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Joe Horn ranks last in the NFL in YAC ... there was this guy who played for the Cowboys... who had virtually no YAC... he was always catching balls on his tippy-toes on the sidelines, or in the middle of the field in a lot of traffic... a lot of those were for crucial 3rd down plays and TD\'s... his nickname? \'The Playmaker\"... maybe my memory is staring to get foggy with age, but I don\'t remember seeing anyone make so many crucial catches in a game as Michael Irving... YAC, yet another meaningless stat... oh, had to add, speaking on the source of the FACT that Horn is last in the NFL on YAC, I didn\'t know there were only 28 WR\'s in all of the NFL... Joe Horn is no Michael Irvin. Just a meaningless comparison!
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

02-15-2005, 08:56 AM	#27
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Joe Horn ranks last in the NFL in YAC ... there was this guy who played for the Cowboys... who had virtually no YAC... he was always catching balls on his tippy-toes on the sidelines, or in the middle of the field in a lot of traffic... a lot of those were for crucial 3rd down plays and TD\'s... his nickname? \'The Playmaker\"... maybe my memory is staring to get foggy with age, but I don\'t remember seeing anyone make so many crucial catches in a game as Michael Irving... YAC, yet another meaningless stat... oh, had to add, speaking on the source of the FACT that Horn is last in the NFL on YAC, I didn\'t know there were only 28 WR\'s in all of the NFL... Joe Horn is no Michael Irvin. Just a meaningless comparison! ...to the Saints, he is...

02-15-2005, 09:22 AM	#28
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Joe Horn ranks last in the NFL in YAC Wow - you guys are suggesting that all this Horn talk was really just a smoke screen to make a point about Brooks? Whoda thunk it? LMAO. Transparent. I say Joe lacks the ablity to break the long one. Do you argree or disagree? No need to elaborate. A simple yes or no will do. NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Got it? But sure Billy, let\'s look at your stats, shall we? I thought by now you would have learned your lesson, but I guess not. I noticed that you only provided numbers for FIVE years for ONE WR, and Keyshawn\'s numbers aren\'t for the last five years. Hhhmmm - are you trying to skew things?!? NEVER!! Here are the numbers for the guys you listed over the LAST FIVE years, according to NFL.com. JOE HORN 437 Rec. for 6289 yards, and 45 TDs. 93 rec over 20 yards, 24 rec over 40 yards, and a long of 73 yards. Hines Ward 429 Rec. for 5171 yards, and 34 TDs. 73 rec over 20 yards, 8 rec over 40 yards, and a long of 66 yards Derrick Mason 406 Rec. for 5506 yards, and 34 TDs. 71 rec over 20 yards, 9 rec over 40 yards, and a long of 68 yards Keyshawn Johnson 368 Rec. for 4809 yards, and 23 TDs. 69 rec over 20 yards, 2 rec over 40 yards, and a long of 67 yards Rod Smith 455 Rec. for 5961 yards, and 34 TDs. 77 rec over 20 yards, 8 rec over 40 yards, and a long of 77 yards So what did we learn? Horn is 2nd in receptions, 1st in yards, 1st in TDs by DOUBLE DIGITS, has TWENTY more 20+ yard receptions than the next guy, THREE TIMES as many 40+ yards receptions, and the 2nd longest rec, short by 4 yards. Wait, wasn\'t the argument that Joe Horn couldn\'t break the long one? But he has far more 20+ and 40+ yard receptions than all the guys you mentioned Billy. How is that?!?! LAST FIVE YEARS: Joe Horn 20+ - 93 40+ - 24 Long: 73 Randy Moss 20+ - 96 40+ - 30 Long: 76 TO 20+ - 96 40+ - 29 Long: 70 Yeah - there\'s a HUGE difference there. Those guys average ONE HALF of a 20+ yard catch and ONE WHOLE 40+ yard catch more a season than Joe. One and a half more \"big\" gains! Joe Horn is CLEARLY down with the likes of Keyshawn Johnson. Got another argument you\'d like to try.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

02-15-2005, 09:32 AM	#29
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Joe Horn ranks last in the NFL in YAC Joe Horn is no Michael Irvin. Just a meaningless comparison! You\'re right. Over his most successful 5 year period ever in his career, Michael Irvin had 21 40+ yard catches (LESS THAT JOE\'S 24 OVER THE LAST 5 YEARS), and 38 TDs (LESS THAN JOE\'S 45 OVER THE LAST 5 YEARS). He also had 449 Receptions - more than Joe\'s 437 by about 2 catches per year. Yeah, there\'s no comparison there - Despite having fewer touches Joe has more big plays. Joe is far more explosive than Irvin. http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1214 Enjoy!! ROFLMAO.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

02-15-2005, 09:33 AM	#30
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Joe Horn ranks last in the NFL in YAC Where\'s BnB with the Stalloned!! when you need him?
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631