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WWL Fourth Down on 4

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Ok papz good call on the market value.......... With so many opinions I usually take it one post at a time and try to remember what everyone says, I still think your Method of getting that post across, kinda got ...

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Old 02-16-2005, 08:49 AM   #21
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WWL Fourth Down on 4

Ok papz good call on the market value..........

With so many opinions I usually take it one post at a time and try to remember what everyone says, I still think your Method of getting that post across, kinda got me in Defense Mode LOL.. I just re-read all the post, I think the reason we were arguing other than my misinterpitation, is the Fact I honestly think he is close to that magic 5 number although I would not Pay that 9 mil a year, I agree about 6.5 is the most I would go. I also in other posts have mentioned Taging him unless a deal is struck next year, instead of losing him without compensation, \"You have said this also\" ............

Ohhhh we do mostly agree...... LOL sorry

My whole Point is I would not just let Joe slip away without a fight, even if it means paying him a \"little\" more than what we agreed on. I would like Horn to retire a Saint, But not at all cost.......

This is Probably (notice I said Probably) the one thing we disagree with and I Quote:

\"We already have a talented WR corp and can pick up a #1 receiver through the draft or free agency. SEE YOU LATER JOE!\"


I don\'t have the see you later Joe Attitude....... thats the only diffrence...

oh P.s. I know you wer refering to Harrison type money when you said that, But I would even be upset if it was that kinda money he wanted and we just let him go....... I just say keep Joe if at all reasonable if not Tag him.....

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Old 02-16-2005, 02:21 PM   #22
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WWL Fourth Down on 4

6 for 36 million a year
Papz - uh, where are you getting your numbers buddy? 6 years for 36 million is BROOKS\' contract, NOT HORN\'S. Horn is currently playing under a 3 year $13 million contract extension he signed in 2001 or 2002. But don\'t believe me, here\'s <a href=\'http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/writers/peter_king/06/07/king.mmqb/\'>proof</a>.

THEN... if he is still as productive... give him his fair share... NOT HARRISON MONEY... HE WANTS TO BE PAID AS A TOP 5 RECEIVER AM I RIGHT?
I\'m going to address the second part of that quote first. No, you are wrong - actually, neither of us can say what his demands are b/c he hasn\'t made them. He has not yet asked to be paid top 5 money. ONE SPORTS WRITER suggested that Harrison\'s contract COULD impact Horn\'s demands, but Horn has not (at least not publically) demanded top 5 money.

Next to the first part. So your logic says that even though the guy\'s play hasn\'t trailed off in the last 5 years, and even though he\'s coming off his best year ever, the Saints should wait to sign him to an extension until he\'s older and slower? How is giving him huge money when he\'s 34 or 35 or 36 better than giving it to him when he\'s 33?

HAS HE NOT SUGGESTED THIS OVER AND OVER?
Again, no he has not. This is a rumor propogated by certain people here to create sensation. Horn has not asked for top 5 money.

Doesn\'t it just make sense to let him play out the year then franchise him so everyone will be happy?
Probably not, especially given his age. Horn will inevitably slow down. No one argues that. Likewise, he hasn\'t shown signs yet, and he is deserving of a raise based on his performance for the team so far. If he plays out this year and then you franchinse him next year he makes $4.8 this season and $9 or so next season. That\'s nearly $14 million for two seasons without knowing whether you\'ll have him for a third year. Want me to show you how to keep Horn for less? Restructure his deal to reduce his current cap expense and add years (i.e. 4 years, 25 million - which would be 8 for 50, which is close enough to the Harrison mark - and you get Joe for 4 more years - that is you add three to his contract). Then you structure the deal with incentives, etc, but even without, just straight salary, you could easily do something like this:

Year 1: 3 million
Year 2: 5 million
Year 3: 7 million
Year 4: 10 million

That way, if Horn\'s play falls off before the 2008 season you could cut him and save $10 million. In otherwords, you get him for 3 more years for $15 million, or about an average of $1 mill more per year than what he\'s currently making. Get it?

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Old 02-16-2005, 05:43 PM   #23
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WWL Fourth Down on 4

8) Joe Horn: Both men said that while Horn\'s on the downside of his career, he\'s still a quality player whom the Saints must reward for his performance last season. Sounds like Horn\'s contract will be renegotiated this offseason (doesn\'t it seem like Horn has been renegotiating every offseason?).

I\'ve been saying this all along. He gets a contract extension EVERY, and I really do mean every, offseason. It\'s starting to get ridiculous. He needs to honor one of them and stop being so greedy. Doesn\'t really matter anyways, I think it\'s his last season here. No way can you committ Harrison type money to a guys that\'s going to turn 34 after the season. We already have a talented WR corp and can pick up a #1 receiver through the draft or free agency. SEE YOU LATER JOE!
HORN PRODUCES BIG EVERY YEAR!! CHECK HIS STATS!!
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Old 02-16-2005, 05:47 PM   #24
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WWL Fourth Down on 4

Too long, I\'ve made my point... it\'s like talking to a one-sided wall...

Why would he sign that retarded contract idea knowing that NFL contracts aren\'t guaranteed and it\'s back loaded? Hey papz, stop talking to yourself... time to move on.

Closing statement on my part...

\"But go ahead and talk about how Horn should be cut, just like you all did last season. When he goes to the Pro Bowl next year, you\'ll all be talking about how he really really should be cut. And when he\'s inducted into the Saints Hall of Fame, you\'ll all be talking about how much you loved the guy. Whatever.\"

\"I laughed when you said Saints Hall of Fame because in a weird way it helped prove my point. Moss, Owens, and Harrison will someday be in the NFL Hall of Fame. Get the picture?\"


[Edited on 16/2/2005 by papz]

Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.

All little common sense goes a long way.
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Old 02-16-2005, 09:57 PM   #25
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WWL Fourth Down on 4

Why would he sign that retarded contract idea knowing that NFL contracts aren\'t guaranteed and it\'s back loaded?
You mean, like the backloaded contract he\'s playing under right now??? Nearly ALL NFL contracts are backloaded, ESPECIALLY veteran contracts.

I laughed when you said Saints Hall of Fame because in a weird way it helped prove my point. Moss, Owens, and Harrison will someday be in the NFL Hall of Fame. Get the picture?
They probably will. Had Horn broken out when he was 25 instead of when he was 30 the same could be said. He simply won\'t have enough years, but that doesn\'t mean that his numbers over the last 5 years aren\'t TOP FIVE. Aaron Brooks got a top 5 contract - are his numbers top 5?
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