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Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper At least the article was posted on the website, so ink and paper weren't wasted. If we are talking needs: Offense, what it really needs: 1. Guards 2. Less predictable play calling/faster developing plays Defense: 1. ...

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Old 12-24-2015, 04:48 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper View Post
At least the article was posted on the website, so ink and paper weren't wasted. If we are talking needs:

Offense, what it really needs:
1. Guards
2. Less predictable play calling/faster developing plays

Defense:
1. Remove Browner
2. A bona fide tackle
2. Get Jim Schwartz and let him pick his staff.



Both could use some backups.
Unfortunately that won't change. So the better the talent the better the execution.
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Old 12-26-2015, 04:39 PM   #22
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Re: Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix

Originally Posted by SaintsBro View Post
Like Jason David, and like the situation a few years ago with a certain quarterback and coach who simply had to go, in order for the team to ever improve, I think it all starts with getting rid of Browner. That alone will kickstart the process. If they got rid of Browner, I think people here would be surprised, at how much improvement that move alone could make on the defense. Without the penalties, first downs and yards that he has given up single-handedly, the Saints would actually be in the mid-20s as a defensive rank right now! He gives up crucial first downs, that extend drives and then result in scores: if you take even just one or two of those scores/drives away, if you stall those drives, then almost ALL these games are completely different in character. He's a cancer. He is single handedly affecting the outcome of these games, and quite honestly I wouldn't be surprised at all if we found out down the line someday, that he was somehow influencing them through gambling or by affecting fantasy league betting or changing point spreads or something, like the point shaving scandal at Tulane or the fixing the 1919 World Series. I would not be surprised or shocked if that were true!

For me it all starts with getting rid of Browner. Same way the Saints went through a bad spell with Jason David, and once he was eliminated from the roster, the team actually kinda took off and soared, it was like a weight had been lifted from their collective shoulders. I'm over simplifying, of course, but everything truly starts with that move. Browner being on the next train out of town after the Falcons game, will give me hope for next year.
I agree with you about the team being better without Browner. Sean Payton has this thing about corners.......when he first came here he invested a lot of time brining in FA's and draft picks. None of them really panned out. It's his weakness. He can't evaluate defensive talent worth a damn.
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Old 12-26-2015, 05:03 PM   #23
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Re: Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix

Browner has played better under Allen. Also, though, he was designed to stop elite receivers, not the likes of Ginn Jr. He did stop Watkins and Megatron. Robinson is another one of those receivers.

I think if we had a pass rush Browner would be even better.
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Old 12-26-2015, 05:17 PM   #24
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Re: Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix

Truth be told, the Saints could use help at every position on the roster except running back
I'm sorry but QB, MLB, OC, FB, FS, SS, LT, RT, K, P, NB all disagree.
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Old 12-29-2015, 07:07 AM   #25
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Re: Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix

Here is my draft wish list: G, DE, DT, OLB(No particular draft order)

If we can find a starter at each one of those positions we will be set. I know a lot of people will look at that and say 'Go home, you're drunk' but hear me out. The WRs are set, in my opinion. Even with Colston being on his way out, we have 3 solid WRs(Cooks, Snead, Coleman) so why waste a 1st round pick on a WR? A late round small school guy like Darrin Peterson would work just fine. As for DBs get rid of Browner and welcome back a healthy Keenan Lewis and PJ Williams(hopefully Swanson hasn't done too much damage to himself and can come back as well) and the CBs are set.

So, I would strongly disagree with the article and state that a really good draft COULD make the Saints a contender again.
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Old 12-29-2015, 08:39 AM   #26
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Re: Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix

On offense, needs are Starting Right Guard and Starting WR (X) receiver, that's it really...

On defense, first thing you have to do is decide what kind of defense is going to be schemed because we've drafted 3-4 personnel for the front seven the past two drafts and we're running a 4-3 to feature Cam Jordan (who's looked awful as a pass rusher and has blown containment on several big run gashes (Detroit late comes to mind))...

Cam is a poor fit, should be traded for that reason and to begin to unload cap space...

If we continue to draft 3-4. as we have for the front seven these past two drafts (i.e. Stephone Anthony, Hau'oli Kikaha, Davis Tull, John Jenkins, Tyeler Davison) getting OLB Karim Edebali on the field and ILB Dannel Ellerbe healthy, then we only have need for a MLB for depth and a couple of late round maulers for the three down linemen rotation...

So we're not that far away...Now, if we reverse course and build a 4-3 around Cam Jordan, there's more work to be done and is a mistake because Jordan isn't as effective against regular starting offensive linemen...
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Old 12-31-2015, 06:43 AM   #27
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Re: Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix

Originally Posted by jeanpierre View Post

On defense, first thing you have to do is decide what kind of defense is going to be schemed because we've drafted 3-4 personnel for the front seven the past two drafts and we're running a 4-3 to feature Cam Jordan (who's looked awful as a pass rusher and has blown containment on several big run gashes (Detroit late comes to mind))...

Cam is a poor fit, should be traded for that reason and to begin to unload cap space...

So we're not that far away...Now, if we reverse course and build a 4-3 around Cam Jordan, there's more work to be done and is a mistake because Jordan isn't as effective against regular starting offensive linemen...
I don't understand the reasoning behind getting rid of Jordan. He is the best lineman we have and arguably the best defensive player. He has as many pressures as J.J. Watt and is THE leader of the defense. We need to be building around him on the front 7. Here is what ProFootball Focus said about him in their '10 biggest pro bowl snubs' article:

Cameron Jordan, DE, New Orleans Saints (91.6):

A late season surge is something that you could definitely not level at Cameron Jordan, who has been ultra productive on a bad Saints’ defense since the start of the season. That last point is perhaps what has held Jordan off of the roster; unfairly overlooked on an individual level due to the failings of the defensive unit around him. What more Jordan could have done than rack up 66 defensive pressures, five batted passes, and 30 stops to help those around him, I’m not quite sure. A crowded pack on the edge for certain, but Jordan’s play this season is absolutely worthy of a trip to Hawaii.
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Old 12-31-2015, 06:50 AM   #28
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Re: Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix

The issue is the rest of the front three and other linebacker. Jordan,Anthony and Kikaha are noce building blocks. Get another DE/OLB that can get pressure and a pair of brutes to fill the DT and stop the push on the line and kill the run and the defense will look decent. As much as id love a top 5 defense we can be contenders with anything in the top 15
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Old 12-31-2015, 10:21 AM   #29
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Re: Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix

Hopefully you all remember our record before the 09 season.

07 08 were very similar to 14 15... I'm hoping for Payton to stay but all of the position coaches need to go.
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Old 12-31-2015, 10:27 AM   #30
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Re: Saints have more problems than 2016 draft can fix

Originally Posted by mighty12 View Post
I don't understand the reasoning behind getting rid of Jordan. He is the best lineman we have and arguably the best defensive player. He has as many pressures as J.J. Watt and is THE leader of the defense. We need to be building around him on the front 7. Here is what ProFootball Focus said about him in their '10 biggest pro bowl snubs' article:

Cameron Jordan, DE, New Orleans Saints (91.6):

A late season surge is something that you could definitely not level at Cameron Jordan, who has been ultra productive on a bad Saints’ defense since the start of the season. That last point is perhaps what has held Jordan off of the roster; unfairly overlooked on an individual level due to the failings of the defensive unit around him. What more Jordan could have done than rack up 66 defensive pressures, five batted passes, and 30 stops to help those around him, I’m not quite sure. A crowded pack on the edge for certain, but Jordan’s play this season is absolutely worthy of a trip to Hawaii.
Cam Jordan is easily the best defensive player we have. He also consistently ranks out on the top of his position in pass rushing and run stopping according to pff. Don't pay attention to the knee jerk reaction folks.

Cam needs some players across the line which can also draw double teams. Outside of Cam we have NO ONE that poses any threat. We have the worst front 4 in the NFL, if jj watt had the supporting cast Cam had, jj wouldn't be a pro bowler every year.
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