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Scouts take: What Payton Wants

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Old 01-08-2016, 09:38 AM   #31
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Re: Scouts take: What Payton Wants

WOW! We should call this the"overstating the obvious thread"...
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Old 01-08-2016, 09:43 AM   #32
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Re: Scouts take: What Payton Wants

Originally Posted by burningmetal View Post
It was a better draft. But that shouldn't have been hard to do... In all seriousness, I did like some of the picks but I still hate the selection of Peat. That was really a whiff, in my opinion. I know it's early, but I'm just not catching any warm, fuzzy feelings about him developing.

Kikaha has a lot left to prove. I love his attitude and burst, but not much else... Yet. I've got more patience with him. He's very one dimensional right now, but he does do a good job of stripping the ball out when he gets the chance.

Anthony was just ok, to me. I'm not sure what we have in him. It would be nice if Ellerbe could stay healthy so we could see how those two feed off each other.
I'll give you the Peet pick. That has shown, as of now, to be the worst one of the draft but who knows, he has the size and tools to be good, he just needs to get it together. Some players take longer to adjust to the speed of the NFL.

As far as Anthony and Kikaha, c'mon man. Anthony was given the rains to run the defense as a rookie! Under the likes of RR coaching. Did he make mistakes, of course, he is a ROOKIE. I don't know what expectations you had but they sound like they are a little to much. Kikaha is another one. He makes plays PERIOD. What more can you ask for? You have to remember, these guys are coming straight in from college and are starting in the NFL where its like playing the best players every week.There is an adjustment period and I believe these guys arrows are pointing up.

I think all things considered, we have some solid players that will be on this team for awhile. That draft seems to be one of the better ones we have had in some years but I don't think it's just a coincidence that it happened as soon as Ireland got here.
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Old 01-08-2016, 10:11 AM   #33
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Re: Scouts take: What Payton Wants

My take ...

Stephone Anthony
was drafted to be a true MLB. IMO he has progressed nicely over the course of 1 full season. Instincts are there. With coaching, he will learn to play within that mindset and greatly improve.

Kikaha .. don't think he has been playing healthy since pre Redskins game (that would explain some of the limited play last few weeks).
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Old 01-08-2016, 10:20 AM   #34
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Re: Scouts take: What Payton Wants

Originally Posted by CharityMike View Post
I'll give you the Peet pick. That has shown, as of now, to be the worst one of the draft but who knows, he has the size and tools to be good, he just needs to get it together. Some players take longer to adjust to the speed of the NFL.

As far as Anthony and Kikaha, c'mon man. Anthony was given the rains to run the defense as a rookie! Under the likes of RR coaching. Did he make mistakes, of course, he is a ROOKIE. I don't know what expectations you had but they sound like they are a little to much. Kikaha is another one. He makes plays PERIOD. What more can you ask for? You have to remember, these guys are coming straight in from college and are starting in the NFL where its like playing the best players every week.There is an adjustment period and I believe these guys arrows are pointing up.

I think all things considered, we have some solid players that will be on this team for awhile. That draft seems to be one of the better ones we have had in some years but I don't think it's just a coincidence that it happened as soon as Ireland got here.
I don't see where anything I said was unfair. I mentioned the positives with Kikaha, but I kind of pointed out the obvious that he's one dimensional. That was said about him in college, not just as a rookie in the NFL, and it showed. He gets blown out of plays because he doesn't change directions very well. I've always said if he can fix that he'll be great. But for now, it is as advertised.

I'm aware that Anthony was part of an awful defense. That's why I specifically said "I don't know what we have in him". He looked like a rookie. I know it's easy to say that, well, he's a rookie so he should play like one. I didn't see enough that stood out with him. I didn't expect pro bowler. I didn't exactly jump for joy when they drafted him.

Like I said, I thought he was ok. Let's see what he does moving forward. No harm in that, is there?

Lastly, I'm not on the Jeff Ireland love boat. Last I saw of him before he came here, he was getting fired from a sinking ship in Miami. I don't know why I'm supposed to expect great things from him. So I am just waiting to see how he does over an extended period of time. So far the needle has moved a little, at least with the last draft, in the right direction, but as you can see I remain skeptical.

If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.
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Old 01-08-2016, 10:42 AM   #35
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Re: Scouts take: What Payton Wants

Originally Posted by burningmetal View Post
I don't see where anything I said was unfair. I mentioned the positives with Kikaha, but I kind of pointed out the obvious that he's one dimensional. That was said about him in college, not just as a rookie in the NFL, and it showed. He gets blown out of plays because he doesn't change directions very well. I've always said if he can fix that he'll be great. But for now, it is as advertised.

I'm aware that Anthony was part of an awful defense. That's why I specifically said "I don't know what we have in him". He looked like a rookie. I know it's easy to say that, well, he's a rookie so he should play like one. I didn't see enough that stood out with him. I didn't expect pro bowler. I didn't exactly jump for joy when they drafted him.

Like I said, I thought he was ok. Let's see what he does moving forward. No harm in that, is there?

Lastly, I'm not on the Jeff Ireland love boat. Last I saw of him before he came here, he was getting fired from a sinking ship in Miami. I don't know why I'm supposed to expect great things from him. So I am just waiting to see how he does over an extended period of time. So far the needle has moved a little, at least with the last draft, in the right direction, but as you can see I remain skeptical.
You are absolutely entitled to your own opinion and maybe I misinterpreted your post or posts. The vibe I took from them are that you are not impressed with our rookies, you are not impressed with the draft and you are not impressed with Ireland. This is why I said maybe your expectations are a bit to high. I know for me, these rookies and this last draft are one of the better ones we have had in awhile, maybe even since 2006. As a franchise, we have never been good at getting the right people in the draft. So my expectations were not very high and after this year, I am left feeling like we did pretty damn good. It's not a coincidence that we revamped our entire scouting department including the main guy in Ireland and we suddenly had a successful draft. I understand the skepticism with Ireland with how things happened in Miami but this is a different organization and a lot of times, it takes a change of scenery to get back right.
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Old 01-08-2016, 12:05 PM   #36
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Re: Scouts take: What Payton Wants

I guess we are at a new age when draft picks have to all contribute as starters. I remember when teams never expect draft picks to see the field as starters year one and we are seeing *****ing about this draft? We had like 7 first year players contributing as starters. That is unheard of.
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Old 01-09-2016, 02:49 AM   #37
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Re: Scouts take: What Payton Wants

Originally Posted by CharityMike View Post
You are absolutely entitled to your own opinion and maybe I misinterpreted your post or posts. The vibe I took from them are that you are not impressed with our rookies, you are not impressed with the draft and you are not impressed with Ireland. This is why I said maybe your expectations are a bit to high. I know for me, these rookies and this last draft are one of the better ones we have had in awhile, maybe even since 2006. As a franchise, we have never been good at getting the right people in the draft. So my expectations were not very high and after this year, I am left feeling like we did pretty damn good. It's not a coincidence that we revamped our entire scouting department including the main guy in Ireland and we suddenly had a successful draft. I understand the skepticism with Ireland with how things happened in Miami but this is a different organization and a lot of times, it takes a change of scenery to get back right.
You're right that I'm not impressed by Ireland. Not yet anyway. I didn't say that about anything else, though. I said that I liked some of the picks, but I gave my opinion on their performance thus far. I like the idea behind drafting Kikaha, but he's got to do something other than just bull rush all the time before I crown him a success. I understand he's got to develop. I said that I have patience with him. I feel similar with most of our draft picks. Swann outplayed any expectation I had for him. He just needs to learn how to protect his head when making a hit.

I like the value we got in the other low round picks, even though they didn't play much (some didn't play at all). They at least have potential, and it's hard to find legitimate potential in later rounds. The most impressive rookie was not a draft pick, and that would be Breaux.

Maybe this will make my point a little more clear. We all know how bad our drafts have been in recent years. Well, there have been guys who were actually said to be good picks after their first year, only for them to turn out not so good. Guys like Vaccaro and Hicks, for instance.

So I'm not getting all excited about Jeff Ireland because a couple of guys showed glimpses. This is not about what I think these players will turn into, it's very simply that UNTIL I see these guys actually develop into reliable starters, I'm not going to say that we've found the solution in Ireland.
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If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.
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Old 01-09-2016, 02:58 AM   #38
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Re: Scouts take: What Payton Wants

Originally Posted by lumm0x View Post
I guess we are at a new age when draft picks have to all contribute as starters. I remember when teams never expect draft picks to see the field as starters year one and we are seeing *****ing about this draft? We had like 7 first year players contributing as starters. That is unheard of.
If you're referring to my comments, see my above post.

But in all actuality, there are a lot of rookies who make big impacts nowadays. There was once a time when freshman didn't play in college. We've found out that a change in philosophy has proven that younger players can get it done, if they have that much talent.

Should we expect it from every rookie? Absolutely not. But we should see a little more from the high round picks. That has been rare. I didn't **tch about anything. I've seen enough to withhold my judgement for a while. I've seen all of you guys complaining about this, that, and the other for years. We all complain about things. So now I'm in the minority? I doubt it. People change their tune awful quick sometimes.

If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.
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Old 01-09-2016, 04:52 AM   #39
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Re: Scouts take: What Payton Wants

Originally Posted by dizzle88 View Post
I think we may be headed in the right direction since we hired Jeff Ireland

Last draft - Damian Swann in round 5 - when healthy a very promising player
PJ Williams - many said should have been a first rounder
Kikaha - "Analysts" said he only succeeded because of his teammate, he proved that wasn't true.
Stephone Anthony - Looks like he could develop into the leader on D eventually.

If we continue drafting like we did last year, we will be successful, don't waste second round picks on someone like Stanley Jean Baptiste when you can get someone like Hau' Oli Kikaha instead.
In a few years when we look back at this draft, be prepared to add Davis Tull among the names you'll remember from this draft...

And don't discount how important Tyeler Davison was this season as his role will definitely grow with what will be a much improved defense next season...

Considering Swann's susceptibility for concussion, don't be surprised he's not a Saint for long; it'll be the smart move for both the young man and organization...

Everyone seems fixated on just the draft, but this may also be the shot across the bow for changes that are desperately needed on the coaching staff (i.e. Joe Vitt, Bill Johnson, Bret Ingalls)...

And Payton realizes this, needs to be able to 'free' himself of getting his hands dirty, but wants to be sure he and Ireland are on the same page at the end of the day...

“Your best?!? Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home (with) the prom queen.” - Sean Connery in The Rock
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Old 01-10-2016, 01:03 AM   #40
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Re: Scouts take: What Payton Wants

Originally Posted by nola_swammi View Post
All is cool bruh! I can laugh at my mistake just hard not to shoot back at insults (illiterate moron). HAPPY NEW YEAR's ,,,, geaux saints
Well it is actually HAPPY NEW YEAR, not plural or plural possessive but whatever.
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