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Sean Stays

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by lumm0x Take away the Super Bowl and Payton is still the best coach this team has ever had. Mora couldn't even win a playoff game let alone get us in more than 1. Payton has as many ...

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Old 01-07-2016, 10:58 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by lumm0x View Post
Take away the Super Bowl and Payton is still the best coach this team has ever had. Mora couldn't even win a playoff game let alone get us in more than 1. Payton has as many wins in less games.
I know he didn't win a playoff game. But use a little perspective. Free agency, as it exists today, did not come about until 1992. That meant it was extremely difficult for the Saints to sign the top players. What would Sean's resume look like without Drew? We'll never know.

I don't even like Jim Mora, because of how he left, but the bottom line is that he took what was maybe the worst franchise in sports and made it into a team that was consistently winning or in the hunt.

From '87 to '93 he went 12-3, 10-6, 9-7, 8-8, 11-5, 12-4, and 8-8 before going 7-9 the next two years and quitting in the middle of '96.

That's extremely consistent for a team that grew in the shadow of all the old dynasties that used to rule the NFL. Those teams all had hall of fame QB's, like Sean does. Jim had nothing close to that.
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Old 01-07-2016, 11:07 AM   #72
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Re: Sean Stays

I don't disagree that Mora pulled us out of the dark ages and that it was a different time. But so did Payton from the Ditka/Haslett era. We were a team with no home poised to become a 2-14 laughing stock again with the wrong coach. Sure he hit it lucky on Drew but he also developed one of the best and most consistent offenses in the past 10 years.

It's apples to oranges but I will always argue anyone who claims Payton is an overrated coach. At the absolutely worst it's a tie between the 2.
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Old 01-07-2016, 06:05 PM   #73
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Re: Sean Stays

Originally Posted by burningmetal View Post
I'm starting to feel like a broken record when it comes to this subject. But I keep wondering why people are saying this. Don't get me wrong, I know the media likes to troll a lot. But who ever said that Sean was leaving? There was talk about possibilities of leaving but no one said he was absolutely gone.

How are we going to know what was really going on? We know that he isn't leaving, but what else? I'm just particularly confused over the outrage with this situation, because I never saw any report saying he was definitely leaving. So how were we lied to? To me, all this scuttlebutt is normal for a coach like Payton after a couple bad seasons. There's going to be talk. If it were Mike Smith, no one would care because he's not a hot name.
It was all over ESPN and NFL Radio that Payton was definitely leaving. It was mostly talk radio and TV hacks. They are the worst because any tiny verbalized thought quickly becomes fact because they are all too lazy to do their jobs and do a small bit of research.
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Old 01-07-2016, 06:07 PM   #74
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Re: Sean Stays

Originally Posted by lumm0x View Post
Take away the Super Bowl and Payton is still the best coach this team has ever had. Mora couldn't even win a playoff game let alone get us in more than 1. Payton has as many wins in less games.
Thanks. You saved me the trouble of making the same response.
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Old 01-07-2016, 06:17 PM   #75
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Re: Sean Stays

Originally Posted by burningmetal View Post
I don't doubt what you're saying about Fletcher Mackel, and actually I think I remember that. But there again, you said "predicted". That's what I'm talking about. There are trolls who want to make statements, with nothing to go on, but they are just giving their opinion. They aren't lying. They're just wrong.

And then there are reports that actually claim there are negotiations going on. But no one is saying it's a done deal. That's why I'm not all worked up about it. It's just an overreaction by the media, but not anything I deem as malicious.
No one said there was anything malicious. We actually agree on this subject. By saying that Payton was on his way out, or even considering leaving, was not a lie. It was simply a total lack of reporting on actual fact instead of stating as fact baseless speculation by blogging hacks.

Gullible fans then freak out and think the worst for no reason whatsoever. I repeat what I said earlier that it is stupidity to believe what you hear on talk radio and opinion pieces from many so-called insiders.
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Old 01-08-2016, 09:50 AM   #76
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Re: Sean Stays

Originally Posted by lumm0x View Post
I don't disagree that Mora pulled us out of the dark ages and that it was a different time. But so did Payton from the Ditka/Haslett era. We were a team with no home poised to become a 2-14 laughing stock again with the wrong coach. Sure he hit it lucky on Drew but he also developed one of the best and most consistent offenses in the past 10 years.

It's apples to oranges but I will always argue anyone who claims Payton is an overrated coach. At the absolutely worst it's a tie between the 2.
Well let me be clear that I'm not calling Payton overrated. I do think he's the best coach in our history, but I don't hold him in as high esteem as others. I believe that sometimes things change and sour, for whatever reason, and the team fails because of it. In that event, I think you have to move on and let go of prior accomplishments.

That's my argument. But my opinion has held steady that Payton should have stayed for at least another year to see what he can do with these young players. It was good to see him show some life at the end of the season. I don't know where that fire has been, but I hope it stays lit, because he's an elite coach when he's into it. I didn't get the sense over the past couple of seasons that he was the same guy.

If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.
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Old 01-08-2016, 09:54 AM   #77
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Re: Sean Stays

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido View Post
It was all over ESPN and NFL Radio that Payton was definitely leaving. It was mostly talk radio and TV hacks. They are the worst because any tiny verbalized thought quickly becomes fact because they are all too lazy to do their jobs and do a small bit of research.
Right, and that's what we should expect from them. When I say "definitely" leaving, I mean someone actually reporting that Sean has agreed to leave. This was just a case of people being convinced in their own minds that something was happening, because that gives them something to talk about. It's foolish, it should be embarrassing to them, but we know they don't care. So it surprised me to see the reaction on this board.
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Old 01-08-2016, 10:03 AM   #78
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Re: Sean Stays

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido View Post
No one said there was anything malicious. We actually agree on this subject. By saying that Payton was on his way out, or even considering leaving, was not a lie. It was simply a total lack of reporting on actual fact instead of stating as fact baseless speculation by blogging hacks.

Gullible fans then freak out and think the worst for no reason whatsoever. I repeat what I said earlier that it is stupidity to believe what you hear on talk radio and opinion pieces from many so-called insiders.
With this I took issue at saying someone was stupid for believing Sean would want to leave. Simply because, as I said before, we don't really know. It's a business. He could have gotten more, maybe, maybe not.

Whatever happened, or didn't happen, he decided it was best to remain here. That's different from people going on national television and stirring the pot. People can have opinions, but reporting without knowing is irresponsible.

Yet, again, it wasn't as if these people were reporting a deal that never happened. This is why I don't really watch sports news, I just watch games.

If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.
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Old 01-12-2016, 06:53 PM   #79
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Re: Sean Stays

I kinda wish all the hand-wringing was on a different thread.

My personal feeling about Sean Payton's announcement is this:

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Old 01-15-2016, 08:15 PM   #80
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Re: Sean Stays

Originally Posted by westbankdaze View Post
Terrible news. They should have cut Payton loose. I'm no NFL head coach but when I see the players line up in formation it's so obvious what the saints are gonna do. Payton's play calling caught the world by surprise in 2009 but now he is so transparent. If Brees would give back his money so we can really buy some decent players we would be in good shape. I would take coughlin in Nola easily.
I respectfully have to disagree. We beat the Giants and they didn't have half the injuries we did. They didn't make the playoffs either. Much respect for Coughlin but I wouldn't take another coach in the world over Payton.
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