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Courtney Watson

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; You want to talk about the Saints' front office really doing a great job of selling a player to the fans, just take a look at Courtney Watson. I can never understand why some fans are so high on this ...

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Old 02-27-2005, 11:39 AM   #1
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Courtney Watson

You want to talk about the Saints' front office really doing a great job of selling a player to the fans, just take a look at Courtney Watson.

I can never understand why some fans are so high on this guy!

Maybe it was the press clippings. Maybe it's because he was considered to be a very "intelligent guy". Maybe it's because Haslett praised the guy so much.

Who knows!!

But, what I do know is it isn't because of the way he performed on the field last season!!!!!!

Oh, I've heard fans say they saw him make a few plays. Well, I saw Orlando Ruff make a few plays too.

And I've heard fans say that he's young and will improve! Really? Do we really want to take that chance at the oh so important MLB position?

I don't!!!!!

IMO, it will be a BAD BAD mistake depending on Courtney Watson this upcoming season.

I don't care what his measurements are. I don't care how intelligent his is. I don't care how much potential some fans tells me he has. I do not feel good with Watson manning the MLB position.

Give me a proven MLB in free-agency!!

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Old 02-27-2005, 11:55 AM   #2
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Courtney Watson

Here is an argument:

MLB is a key position in the 4-3 when it comes to the base defense and running downs. However, historically, on passing downs (when the defense moves to a nickle or dime, or even a non-standard 4-3) the MLB is usually the first guy off the field (well maybe one of the DTs is first, but the MLB is second). He is usually replaced with an OLB for speed (think Ruff out-Hodge in two years ago).

In recent years, the base 4-3 has seen an interesting trend. More teams are going with a smaller, rangier guy in the middle. Petersen is a good example. Watson is built like this kind of backer. MLB is played by these \'tweeners more and more of late. I\'m undecided what I think about this trend, but it has certainly paid off in some cases. The key though to using these more speedy, pass oriented MLBs is the DTs. This is one reason that Watson may have suffered in the middle this year; he didn\'t have a wall of a DT to keep the OL/FB off of him. If we were to get a stud DT, we may see Watson improve dramatically.

While I agree that Watson didn\'t impress too much this season, I believe there are at least two reasons for tihs: (1) our DLine was pretty carpy against the run, and (2) MLBs have a slower learning curve than OLBs in general.

Thus, (1) I\'m not willing to abandon the idea of Watson as an MLB - he is physically suited for it and he does have some skills - his major drawback here seems to be instincts, but they could improve, (2) Haz yanked him once it was obvious that the interior of our DL was weak against the run - Ruff is a much better run stuffer - but we\'ve seen what Ruff looks like in coverage, and (3) our defense wasn\'t designed to exploit Watson\'s speed in the middle - with our ends not being the best in run support and our DTs being either undersized or middling in skill, run support required usually two LBs.

Thus, I agree with Billy that Watson didn\'t look like all that, but I believe that had something to do with the inside of our DL and our DE\'s penchant for charging the passer (rather than filling their gaps - Grant had this trouble most of the season).

Furthermore, I actually think a stud OLB (or \'tweener MLB) has more value than a big, head-crushing, MLB (even if they sure are fun to watch).

"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks :cool:
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Old 02-27-2005, 12:01 PM   #3
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Courtney Watson

JKool -

To be honest, that stuff means very little to me.

It takes a good MLB in the 4-3 and it takes a good MLB in the 3-4.

The question is ... is Watson good enough?

If you say yes .... Why?

Based on last year?

Based on a gut feeling?

Based on what Haslett said?

I\'m going based on what I saw on the field last season. He definately didn\'t play like some of the first round MLB who were taken in the draft.

Why? Was it because he\'s not as good as them? Was it because of the players around him?

When I add everything up, I don\'t feel like he\'s the guy. And that\'s based on what I saw with my own two eyes.

Could he be the guy? Yes, absolutely.

But, IMO, it\'s too risky counting on the kid.

We need to solidify the MLB position with a proven MLB and maybe move Watson over to WLB. Though I saw Colby making a lot of plays there...
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Old 02-27-2005, 12:10 PM   #4
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Courtney Watson

I don\'t know a whole lot to judge the young fella, but I did see him mostly out of position to make a play on the ball last year. Seemed like every time I saw him, he was being pushed around at will.
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Old 02-27-2005, 01:47 PM   #5
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Courtney Watson

Typically the more important the position the harder it is to play and learn. So, we had a rook in at a very difficult position. He was out of position a lot,yes, but when he was in position I saw him make good. He\'s a good tackler and his reported intelligence leads me to think he\'ll be able to learn the nuances and be in position more often. Otherwise, I can only hope that with that intelligence comes football savvy.

I don\'t see a problem with keeping him in. I think he\'ll be better because of the experience. I felt the same way about Bentley comoing into the \'03 season - he should have been moved to C then.

I feel this way based on my observations during the games in which he played.
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Old 02-27-2005, 01:55 PM   #6
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Courtney Watson

I hope you\'re right, Scotty.

Look, I\'m not basing Courtney. Everyone here should know I\'m not into bashing any of the Saints\' players.

Maybe some of my frustration is because we have been so inept at MLB for so long.

I think Courtney deserves a chance to be the starting MLB. I just not so sure it isn\'t too big of a risk.

What if he doesn\'t produce and he have no one behind him.

It seems to me that the \"safe\" money is on getting a proven MLB and either sliding Watson to another spot or bring him along slowly?
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Old 02-27-2005, 03:08 PM   #7
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Courtney Watson

Maybe some of my frustration is because we have been so inept at MLB for so long.
I think that may be part of the reason some folks are so sold on Watson. It\'s that eternal Saints-fan hope that every new MLB is the second coming of Sam Mills.

His stats are truly not inspiring, and he started getting banged up later in the year. but there are reasons to believe he may have promise. He\'s smart, and is a good tackler (when he\'s near the play). However, he\'s gotta get stronger or develop a better technique for shedding blockers - otherwise we\'ll see alot more of him getting tossed around like a rag doll.

The key though to using these more speedy, pass oriented MLBs is the DTs. This is one reason that Watson may have suffered in the middle this year; he didn\'t have a wall of a DT to keep the OL/FB off of him. If we were to get a stud DT, we may see Watson improve dramatically.
Hello? Johnathan Sullivan, this is responsibility (and your darned JOB) calling...

What if he doesn\'t produce and he have no one behind him.
Well, judging by the last five seasons or so, nothing happens. We just continue to suck...

our DLine was pretty carpy against the run
Heh heh, carpy...

Wasn\'t just the D-line, man. It took a concerted effort by all the defensive players and coaching staff to be that lousy. I say they all deserve the Golden Carp Award.

FISH HEAD!!!

[Edited on 27/2/2005 by mutineer10]
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Old 02-27-2005, 03:39 PM   #8
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Courtney Watson

I think that may be part of the reason some folks are so sold on Watson. It\'s that eternal Saints-fan hope that every new MLB is the second coming of Sam Mills.
I\'d take the second coming of Vaughn Johnson (#53) too... Good explanation, mutey.

The Golden Carp Award... sounds appropriate to me.

I\'m starting to wonder if Sullivan\'s dramatic nose dive to suckitude isn\'t the biggest reason that our defense blows?
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Old 02-27-2005, 04:22 PM   #9
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Courtney Watson

While I agree completely that the Saints SHOULD sign a proven veteran at MLB this offseason, I also think Courtney Watson will be a good player for the Saints in years to come. I thought he and Buckwoldt played better than any other LBs on the team this past year - and while both need to learn and mature and improve a lot, the fact that they are realistic possibilities for a MLB has me excited.

I sure didn\'t think teams ran very well against us in the last 4 games of the season. Allen, Watson, and Buckwoldt were the starters, if memory serves. Billy - haven\'t you used those last four games to justify your position that the defense will improve in 2005? Don\'t you constantly support young players and giving them the chance to develop? So why the fear of Watson?

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Old 02-27-2005, 04:29 PM   #10
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Courtney Watson

WhoDat --

Why do I fear Watson? Hmmm...

Well, for one, I think that is one of the most \"critical\" positions of the defense. I don\'t like to gamble there too much and I feel like we\'ve gambled long enough. Time to fix it with a known commodity.

And then we could slide Watson over to WLB or possibily SLB. I\'m not sure, but, personally, I\'d feel much better with someone who is proven.

I think this defense is close. As witnessed, at least in part, by the last 4-games.

And, to be honest, even in the last 4 games, I didn\'t see Watson have that much of an impact. At least not from what I saw.

Regardless, I have my doubts about him.
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