Saints' linebackers (all of 'em)

saintswhodi · 03-01-2005, 10:15 AM

I was just poking fun.
Lighten up dude! Having AB withdrawals?
Maybe I shoulda

I know Danno, that\'s why I was doing the same to you. I remember how you used to get your shots in during the AB wars. :P Just getting a little payback, maybe I missed my window.

BNB, you know I know VERY well how those debates went, that\'s why I excused myself from them, and see many others have done the same. It\'s all good. I was just getting Danno back for his shots at us. IT was nothing personal or anything. Just clowning around. Maybe I do have AB withdrawal. :seeingstars: I\'ll go now. :sulkoff:

GumboBC · 03-01-2005, 10:21 AM

JKool and Danno --

Here\'s the point I THINK both of you are missing.

The OLB is left unaccouted for most of the time. They are free to roam the field and free-lance. It is, by far, the easiest position of all 3 linebackers. All you need is a guy who can run fast and tackle. He doesn\'t have to worry about much.

The MLB, on the other hand, has to take on blockers, shed blocks, and get to the ball carrier. He must also be fast enough to cover in the passing game.

It\'s much easier to find a good OLB than a MLB.

Now, you keep on wanting to talk about these BIG linebackers whose only job it is to stuff the run. Well, hardly anyone is using those guys anymore!

JKool · 03-01-2005, 10:26 AM

Billy, I think I accounted for that idea in my post above.

I\'m going to quote myself again:

I think that there have been some very great MLBs, but I think historically speaking that this has not been the as dominant as you make out.

Think back on the Dome Patrol: do you really think that Sam Mills was a bigger play maker than Swilling and Jackson? I\'m not sure I buy that; I\'m not saying you\'re wrong, but, for me, the jury is out on that one.

Historic Impact OLBs:
Lawrence Taylor (changed the way OLB is played)
Derrik Brooks
Bryce Paup
Kevin Greene
Derrek Thomas
(And there are more)

Current Impact OLBs:
LaVar Arrinington
Boss Bailey
Peter Boulware
Keith Brooking
Willie McGinest
Julian Petersen
Junior Seau (well maybe not anymore)
Takeo Spikes
Terrell Suggs
DJ Williams
Will Witherspoon

Surely, you\'ll agree that even if these guys\' job is \"easier\", which I\'m not agreeing with - stopping the run is NOT as hard as being asked to make different kinds of plays in almost every situation - they have excelled and been difference makers. That is, taking on blockers and stopping funneled plays is NOT as hard as having to make quick decisions, cover the field, make a tackle in the open field, switch to pass coverage, and so on. I don\'t see why we should believe that it is harder to be a MLB, just because he may get blocked more often - on that reasoning, the SLB is the most important position.

GumboBC · 03-01-2005, 10:31 AM

Surely, you\'ll agree that even if these guys\' job is \"easier\", which I\'m not agreeing with - stopping the run is NOT as hard as being asked to make different kinds of plays in almost every situation - they have excelled and been difference makers. That is, taking on blockers and stopping funneled plays is NOT as hard as having to make quick decisions, cover the field, make a tackle in the open field, switch to pass coverage, and so on. I don\'t see why we should believe that it is harder to be a MLB, just because he may get blocked more often - on that reasoning, the SLB is the most important position.

JKool --

Which one of these statements do you disagree with?

1. He has a little further to go at times to make plays but is often left unaccounted for in the blocking scheme. Many big play linebackers come from this position because they are allowed to freelance more and flow to the play with less traffic to fight through.

2. The WLB generally has fewer responsibilities than other front 7 positions.

PS -- I\'m not the one saying this. Though, I totally agree with it. I got this from an article on the net.

Do you disagree with those 2 statements?

JKool · 03-01-2005, 10:33 AM

2, is the statement I disagree with.

[Edited on 1/3/2005 by JKool]

GumboBC · 03-01-2005, 10:36 AM

2, is the statement I disagree with.

[Edited on 1/3/2005 by JKool]

Okay, I want you to do something for me if you will.

Go read this article and tell me if your opinion is still the same.

I think this is very interesting.

Here\'s the link...

http://www.redeyesports.com/Breakingdownadefense.htm

JKool · 03-01-2005, 10:45 AM

Billy, that is just the article you quoted from, and I read what you wrote above.

I\'ve made two arguments regarding \"importance\" of the MLB - one where I said that he didn\'t have as many responsibilities (and while that may depend on what the MLB is asked to do in the passing game, I have suggested that MLBs are often the first off the field in passing situations - while that may not be true for Urlacher and Lewis, for MOST NFL teams it is true), and one where I tried to decide what you meant by important. I will ask you to respond to one or both of those, now that I\'ve read this whole article for you (which by the way was pretty good).

Here is a quote that I found interesting about the MLB from your article:

Pass coverage responsibilities will depend on the cover scheme called but once run is diagnosed, the MLB has a single assignment, get to the ball carrier

Doesn\'t that describe every player who isn\'t disrupting the blocking? Wow, those MLBs sure do have a unique set of responsibilities.

I\'ve made my arguments, and this article has not persuaded me that any of them are wrong.

JKool · 03-01-2005, 10:46 AM

PS - Having fewer responsibilities with respect to blockers on running plays is not the same as having fewer responsibilities, but I made that argument above as well.

Danno · 03-01-2005, 10:46 AM

I was just poking fun.
Lighten up dude! Having AB withdrawals?
Maybe I shoulda

I know Danno, that\'s why I was doing the same to you. I remember how you used to get your shots in during the AB wars. :P Just getting a little payback, maybe I missed my window.

BNB, you know I know VERY well how those debates went, that\'s why I excused myself from them, and see many others have done the same. It\'s all good. I was just getting Danno back for his shots at us. IT was nothing personal or anything. Just clowning around. Maybe I do have AB withdrawal. :seeingstars: I\'ll go now. :sulkoff:

And I went and kicked the cat for nothing?

GumboBC · 03-01-2005, 10:52 AM

Billy, that is just the article you quoted from, and I read what you wrote above.

I\'ve made two arguments regarding \"importance\" of the MLB - one where I said that he didn\'t have as many responsibilities (and while that may depend on what the MLB is asked to do in the passing game, I have suggested that MLBs are often the first off the field in passing situations - while that may not be true for Urlacher and Lewis, for MOST NFL teams it is true), and one where I tried to decide what you meant by important. I will ask you to respond to one or both of those, now that I\'ve read this whole article for you (which by the way was pretty good).

Here is a quote that I found interesting about the MLB from your article:

Pass coverage responsibilities will depend on the cover scheme called but once run is diagnosed, the MLB has a single assignment, get to the ball carrier

Doesn\'t that describe every player who isn\'t disrupting the blocking? Wow, those MLBs sure do have a unique set of responsibilities.

I\'ve made my arguments, and this article has not persuaded me that any of them are wrong.

The middle linebacker does have only ONE responsibility once the ball is snapped. And that\'s to get to the ball carrier. But, it\'s WHAT he has to do to get to the ball carrier as opposed to what an outside linebacker has to do.

The OLB doesn\'t have to take on blocks like a MLB does. You already said you agree the OLB is free to roam the field. And the author of the article said the samething. So, in essence, the MLBs job is the harder of the two.

Keep this in mind. The OLB has to support the run and the pass. But, because he is left unaccounted for as compared to the SLB and MLB, it\'s much easier for him to do that.

And for the last time.... Most MLB do not come off the field on 3rd down. Unless a team has someone like Orlando Ruff who is too slow to cover a runningback or a TE. It\'s a moot point, JKool.

03-01-2005, 10:15 AM	#11
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Saints' linebackers (all of 'em) I was just poking fun. Lighten up dude! Having AB withdrawals? Maybe I shoulda I know Danno, that\'s why I was doing the same to you. I remember how you used to get your shots in during the AB wars. :P Just getting a little payback, maybe I missed my window. BNB, you know I know VERY well how those debates went, that\'s why I excused myself from them, and see many others have done the same. It\'s all good. I was just getting Danno back for his shots at us. IT was nothing personal or anything. Just clowning around. Maybe I do have AB withdrawal. :seeingstars: I\'ll go now. :sulkoff:

03-01-2005, 10:21 AM	#12
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Saints' linebackers (all of 'em) JKool and Danno -- Here\'s the point I THINK both of you are missing. The OLB is left unaccouted for most of the time. They are free to roam the field and free-lance. It is, by far, the easiest position of all 3 linebackers. All you need is a guy who can run fast and tackle. He doesn\'t have to worry about much. The MLB, on the other hand, has to take on blockers, shed blocks, and get to the ball carrier. He must also be fast enough to cover in the passing game. It\'s much easier to find a good OLB than a MLB. Now, you keep on wanting to talk about these BIG linebackers whose only job it is to stuff the run. Well, hardly anyone is using those guys anymore!
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

03-01-2005, 10:26 AM	#13
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Saints' linebackers (all of 'em) Billy, I think I accounted for that idea in my post above. I\'m going to quote myself again: I think that there have been some very great MLBs, but I think historically speaking that this has not been the as dominant as you make out. Think back on the Dome Patrol: do you really think that Sam Mills was a bigger play maker than Swilling and Jackson? I\'m not sure I buy that; I\'m not saying you\'re wrong, but, for me, the jury is out on that one. Historic Impact OLBs: Lawrence Taylor (changed the way OLB is played) Derrik Brooks Bryce Paup Kevin Greene Derrek Thomas (And there are more) Current Impact OLBs: LaVar Arrinington Boss Bailey Peter Boulware Keith Brooking Willie McGinest Julian Petersen Junior Seau (well maybe not anymore) Takeo Spikes Terrell Suggs DJ Williams Will Witherspoon Surely, you\'ll agree that even if these guys\' job is \"easier\", which I\'m not agreeing with - stopping the run is NOT as hard as being asked to make different kinds of plays in almost every situation - they have excelled and been difference makers. That is, taking on blockers and stopping funneled plays is NOT as hard as having to make quick decisions, cover the field, make a tackle in the open field, switch to pass coverage, and so on. I don\'t see why we should believe that it is harder to be a MLB, just because he may get blocked more often - on that reasoning, the SLB is the most important position.
	"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

03-01-2005, 10:31 AM	#14
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Saints' linebackers (all of 'em) Surely, you\'ll agree that even if these guys\' job is \"easier\", which I\'m not agreeing with - stopping the run is NOT as hard as being asked to make different kinds of plays in almost every situation - they have excelled and been difference makers. That is, taking on blockers and stopping funneled plays is NOT as hard as having to make quick decisions, cover the field, make a tackle in the open field, switch to pass coverage, and so on. I don\'t see why we should believe that it is harder to be a MLB, just because he may get blocked more often - on that reasoning, the SLB is the most important position. JKool -- Which one of these statements do you disagree with? 1. He has a little further to go at times to make plays but is often left unaccounted for in the blocking scheme. Many big play linebackers come from this position because they are allowed to freelance more and flow to the play with less traffic to fight through. 2. The WLB generally has fewer responsibilities than other front 7 positions. PS -- I\'m not the one saying this. Though, I totally agree with it. I got this from an article on the net. Do you disagree with those 2 statements?
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

03-01-2005, 10:33 AM	#15
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Saints' linebackers (all of 'em) 2, is the statement I disagree with. [Edited on 1/3/2005 by JKool]

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03-01-2005, 10:36 AM	#16
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Saints' linebackers (all of 'em) 2, is the statement I disagree with. [Edited on 1/3/2005 by JKool] Okay, I want you to do something for me if you will. Go read this article and tell me if your opinion is still the same. I think this is very interesting. Here\'s the link... http://www.redeyesports.com/Breakingdownadefense.htm
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

03-01-2005, 10:45 AM	#17
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Saints' linebackers (all of 'em) Billy, that is just the article you quoted from, and I read what you wrote above. I\'ve made two arguments regarding \"importance\" of the MLB - one where I said that he didn\'t have as many responsibilities (and while that may depend on what the MLB is asked to do in the passing game, I have suggested that MLBs are often the first off the field in passing situations - while that may not be true for Urlacher and Lewis, for MOST NFL teams it is true), and one where I tried to decide what you meant by important. I will ask you to respond to one or both of those, now that I\'ve read this whole article for you (which by the way was pretty good). Here is a quote that I found interesting about the MLB from your article: Pass coverage responsibilities will depend on the cover scheme called but once run is diagnosed, the MLB has a single assignment, get to the ball carrier Doesn\'t that describe every player who isn\'t disrupting the blocking? Wow, those MLBs sure do have a unique set of responsibilities. I\'ve made my arguments, and this article has not persuaded me that any of them are wrong.
	"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

03-01-2005, 10:46 AM	#18
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Saints' linebackers (all of 'em) PS - Having fewer responsibilities with respect to blockers on running plays is not the same as having fewer responsibilities, but I made that argument above as well.

03-01-2005, 10:46 AM	#19
Danno Site Donor 2014 Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,640	Saints' linebackers (all of 'em) I was just poking fun. Lighten up dude! Having AB withdrawals? Maybe I shoulda I know Danno, that\'s why I was doing the same to you. I remember how you used to get your shots in during the AB wars. :P Just getting a little payback, maybe I missed my window. BNB, you know I know VERY well how those debates went, that\'s why I excused myself from them, and see many others have done the same. It\'s all good. I was just getting Danno back for his shots at us. IT was nothing personal or anything. Just clowning around. Maybe I do have AB withdrawal. :seeingstars: I\'ll go now. :sulkoff: And I went and kicked the cat for nothing?

03-01-2005, 10:52 AM	#20
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Saints' linebackers (all of 'em) Billy, that is just the article you quoted from, and I read what you wrote above. I\'ve made two arguments regarding \"importance\" of the MLB - one where I said that he didn\'t have as many responsibilities (and while that may depend on what the MLB is asked to do in the passing game, I have suggested that MLBs are often the first off the field in passing situations - while that may not be true for Urlacher and Lewis, for MOST NFL teams it is true), and one where I tried to decide what you meant by important. I will ask you to respond to one or both of those, now that I\'ve read this whole article for you (which by the way was pretty good). Here is a quote that I found interesting about the MLB from your article: Pass coverage responsibilities will depend on the cover scheme called but once run is diagnosed, the MLB has a single assignment, get to the ball carrier Doesn\'t that describe every player who isn\'t disrupting the blocking? Wow, those MLBs sure do have a unique set of responsibilities. I\'ve made my arguments, and this article has not persuaded me that any of them are wrong. The middle linebacker does have only ONE responsibility once the ball is snapped. And that\'s to get to the ball carrier. But, it\'s WHAT he has to do to get to the ball carrier as opposed to what an outside linebacker has to do. The OLB doesn\'t have to take on blocks like a MLB does. You already said you agree the OLB is free to roam the field. And the author of the article said the samething. So, in essence, the MLBs job is the harder of the two. Keep this in mind. The OLB has to support the run and the pass. But, because he is left unaccounted for as compared to the SLB and MLB, it\'s much easier for him to do that. And for the last time.... Most MLB do not come off the field on 3rd down. Unless a team has someone like Orlando Ruff who is too slow to cover a runningback or a TE. It\'s a moot point, JKool.
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616