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Saints match Chicago Bears’ offer, retain tight end Josh Hill

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by burningmetal When exactly did Hill and Graham tear it up together? 2014; Graham would draw coverage and Hill ended up with 5 TD passes... Josh Hill || "King of the Hill" á´´á´° || 2014 Highlights - YouTube ...

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Old 03-26-2016, 10:05 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by burningmetal View Post
When exactly did Hill and Graham tear it up together?
2014; Graham would draw coverage and Hill ended up with 5 TD passes...

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Old 03-26-2016, 11:42 AM   #32
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Re: Josh Hill

Originally Posted by brees84 View Post
Why?
He took mine!
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Old 03-26-2016, 03:46 PM   #33
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Re: Saints match Chicago Bears’ offer, retain tight end Josh Hill

Literally makes no sense. Mickey Loomis' decision-making ability has been dumpster fire status for several years now.
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Old 03-26-2016, 04:06 PM   #34
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Re: Saints match Chicago Bears’ offer, retain tight end Josh Hill

Originally Posted by TheDeuce View Post
Literally makes no sense. Mickey Loomis' decision-making ability has been dumpster fire status for several years now.
Lets recap...

Matching the offer actually saved us cap space over the tender.
He's a redzone threat, and a good pass catching TE.
He's an excellent special teams player.
He's still very young and developing.
We signed him for back-up TE money.

What exactly doesn't make sense to you?
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Old 03-26-2016, 09:02 PM   #35
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Re: Josh Hill

Originally Posted by |Mitch| View Post
2014; Graham would draw coverage and Hill ended up with 5 TD passes...

Josh Hill || "King of the Hill" á´´á´° || 2014 Highlights - YouTube
Yes. GRAHAM drew the coverage away from Hill. And Hill had, I believe, 7 total catches that year. How is that tearing it up? Anyone could have had those 5 touchdowns, when he was left alone.
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Old 03-26-2016, 09:23 PM   #36
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Re: Josh Hill

Originally Posted by burningmetal View Post
Yes. GRAHAM drew the coverage away from Hill. And Hill had, I believe, 7 total catches that year. How is that tearing it up? Anyone could have had those 5 touchdowns, when he was left alone.
15 TD's between the 2 TE's and now we have a more athletic and faster Graham in Fleener, whose been playing football and TE a lot longer.

But just go ahead and keep hating the re-signing, even though it actually saves us cap space and offers pretty good depth and an excellent special teams player....
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Old 03-27-2016, 01:29 AM   #37
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Re: Josh Hill

Originally Posted by |Mitch| View Post
15 TD's between the 2 TE's and now we have a more athletic and faster Graham in Fleener, whose been playing football and TE a lot longer.

But just go ahead and keep hating the re-signing, even though it actually saves us cap space and offers pretty good depth and an excellent special teams player....
That's like saying between me and Drew Brees, we have 420 something TD passes. It doesn't really count when one guy is doing all the work. Again, Hill only had about 7 catches that year. What did he do after that?

I didn't say anything about hating the re-signing, though I don't know why the team thinks they need him. I was more baffled by your comment that Hill and Graham tore it up together. That's just not accurate.

And Fleener is not a faster version of Graham. Fleener runs a 4.5 something, and Graham ran in the 4.4's. Now with injuries Graham has slowed down, but if you're comparing these two in their prime, there isn't a legitimate comparison. But never mind the 40 times... Fleener has never put up more than decent stats. And I was critical of Graham's disappearing act in big games, but he's definitely a far better receiving threat than any of the TE's we have now.

If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.
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Old 03-27-2016, 10:22 AM   #38
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Re: Saints match Chicago Bears’ offer, retain tight end Josh Hill

I believe Hill is wanted more for his run blocking and ST. I think we have come to the conclusion that all our TE's have to be used as pass catching,play making specialist. Sean has never let us down year after year with our offense, so if he wants him here, then good. I'm sure Hill is doing something worth staying here.
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Old 03-27-2016, 12:12 PM   #39
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Re: Josh Hill

Originally Posted by burningmetal View Post

And Fleener is not a faster version of Graham. Fleener runs a 4.5 something, and Graham ran in the 4.4's. Now with injuries Graham has slowed down, but if you're comparing these two in their prime, there isn't a legitimate comparison. But never mind the 40 times... Fleener has never put up more than decent stats. And I was critical of Graham's disappearing act in big games, but he's definitely a far better receiving threat than any of the TE's we have now.
It's the other way around. Fleener ran in the 4.4's, Graham ran in the 4.5's.

I guess everyone has their own definition for "decent stats" but just taking a quick look at TE stats for 2014....

Fleener led TE's in Yards per catch
1. Fleener - 15.2
2. Walker - 14.3
3. Gronkowski - 13.7
4. Paul - 13.0
11. Graham - 10.5

Fleener was 2nd in TD/Catch
1. Antonio Gates - 17.39%
2. Fleener - 15.69%
3. Gronkowski - 14.63%
4. Graham - 11.76%

2nd in 20yds+ Rec
1. Gronkowski - 19
2. Fleener - 16
3. Kelce - 15
4. Walker - 13
11. Graham - 8

5th in YAC/Rec
1. Kelce - 7.01
2. Paul - 6.49
3. Gronkowski - 5.79
4. Walker - 5.63
5. Fleener - 5.59
15. Graham - 3.24

(source: ESPN Stats, Receiving, 2014)

Edit: Fleener also ranked 6th on PFF's pass blocking efficiency ratings. Some of the guys above him on the ranking aren't generally thought of as pass catching TEs. None of the guys ranked higher in Pass Blocking Efficiency, finished in the top 15 in receptions.
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Old 03-28-2016, 11:49 PM   #40
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Re: Saints match Chicago Bears’ offer, retain tight end Josh Hill

I'm not sure it was a real cost-efficient move, but in the event Fleener gets banged up or needs rest, we don't want to get to caught without a receiving threat at tight-end (Hooman's pretty much a blocking specialist).
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