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So SP was experimenting last year on offense?

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; This is from ElliasJWilliams again on SR and this one really kind of has me going(and not in a good way) Morning Folks, We've talked about the defense and formations we'll use. We've beat the need for Guards on the ...

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Old 04-16-2016, 02:59 AM   #1
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So SP was experimenting last year on offense?

This is from ElliasJWilliams again on SR and this one really kind of has me going(and not in a good way)

Morning Folks,

We've talked about the defense and formations we'll use. We've beat the need for Guards on the oline to death. We've even had the typical "we need to draft a WR" conversations this year. Yet, there has been little discussion on the logic behind resigning Josh Hill. I've seen people question it and say why it didn't make sense but haven't seen anyone point to why it made all the sense in the world.

It started with the arrival of Hooman last year with SP wanting to run more multiple TE sets because of the advantage is provided to the offense. That and it was about time to add in some new wrinkles to an offense that had become stale.

Quote:
He had a vision for how his playbook would change if the Saints were able to acquire Michael Hoomanawanui from the New England Patriots. But the trade had to happen before it could come to fruition.

That vision included using more three-tight end sets, which would pair Hoomanwanui with Josh Hill and Ben Watson, and using Hoomanawanui as something of a fullback or blocking back at times in other personnel groupings. That, in turn, would create more flexibility and help make the Saints more unpredictable, while also helping to dictate some of the action within opposing defenses.
How one player

The good thing is it worked. We got production from that and it opened up big plays for Brandin Cooks and others. So if something works why not build on it?

First thing we did was sign Hooman to a 3year contract.

Quote:
Hoomanawanui had 11 receptions for 76 yards and three touchdowns this season in 12 games. He was also used as an in-line tight end and a fullback.
Saints agree to terms with Michael Hoomanawanui, source says | NOLA.com

Not off the wall production for a 3rd TE but the flexibility he afforded was/is priceless.

The very next thing that happened was we brought in Dan Campbell to assist with the offense. One of Campbell's wrinkles he wanted to use when he became HC for Miami was more multiple TE sets because of the options it gives the offense. His philosophy aligns exactly with what SP was attempting to do last year.

Quote:
Im trying to get four tight ends in the game, Campbell said, mostly in jest. (The Dolphins technically could after adding a fourth to their active roster in Brandon Williams this week.)

Cameron and Sims are both athletic and versatile, which creates a conundrum for opposing teams: Do they stay in their base defense and risk getting beat through the air, or go to nickel and possibly get run over?

For us, thats something wed like to live a lot more in, two-tights, Campbell said.
For me the bolded part speaks directly to dictating the action to opposing defenses which is used in an earlier quote from the Underhill article. Starting to see where it all fits in yet? Don't worry I'll keep writing anyway.

You've got your 3rd(flex) TE, and you've brought in a coach that can help install more wrinkes/give more insight but your #1 TE is a FA and he's 35 years of age. There is an opportunity there for an upgrade but mainly at the right price. Suddenly Fleener becomes available and you just lost out on Watson to the Ravens. You ask yourself can he do what we need him to do in this offense? Yes. Is he an upgrade to Ben Watson? Yes. Can we afford him? Yes. Mickey I have a crystal clear vision for this guy and how we want to use him.......lets get him.

Quote:
"He's got outstanding speed, so the one thing that jumps off the film is his ability to really run," Payton told WWL in his first public comments about Fleener since the team signed him to a five-year deal worth up to $36 million. "He's a guy that's smart. He's someone who played in a system very similar to ours in college."

Payton said he spent a lot of time on the phone with Stanford coach David Shaw, for whom Fleener played while at the school. Payton said the Saints and Stanford run similar enough offenses for him to form a solid opinion.

Payton said the Saints signed Fleener more for what he can do in the passing game than in the run game.

"He's not going to be the first guy you put in at the point of attack on a power play, but that's OK," Payton said. "Let's make sure we understand the things that he does real well, and I think we can do that offensively."
New Saints TE Coby Fleener has 'outstanding speed,' Sean Payton tells WWL | NOLA.com

So you've upgraded your #1 TE position with a guy that can stretch the field from the inside (change offense around so #2 WR isn't the field stretcher) and you've got your Blocking TE that you can put at the POA in Hooman, as well as your coach to help with the installs/wrinkles but your 3rd TE just signed an offer sheet.

Could you get another TE in the draft? Yes....but there is a familiarity with the player and the player with the system that makes bringing him back more logical than attempting to draft an "unknown" TE to fill that void.

So you go out and match the offer to Hill and bring him back.

Quote:
The New Orleans Saints on Friday announced that they have matched the three-year offer sheet that restricted free agent tight end Josh Hill signed with the Bears on Tuesday.
Saints match Bears offer sheet to Hill


Suddenly the offense seems legit. Especially from a standpoint of having 3TE's and 3WR's that are options in the passing game to go along with the RB's as options in the passing game. What this tells me is that the need to draft a WR isn't a high as i thought it could be a few days ago. Could we choose one..yes. However, the likely hood of him making a dent in the rotation seems minor as does the need to have a 7th option as a 1st round pick. Later in the draft? Sure...super early however seems unecessary however the lack of depth and attention payed to the position last year all but ensures we'll pick one....just not early.

So now i must ask. Does the decision to match Hills offer make more sense now? Hopefully it should and you can feel a little more confident moving to the draft in the next 2 weeks. An upgrade on the Oline and some more pieces on defense should see us set to compete yet again in 2016. The moves up to this point should be worth 3 more wins but we aren't finished yet and thats the best part.


RIP Will Smith
WHO DAT!!!
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Old 04-16-2016, 09:33 AM   #2
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Re: So SP was experimenting last year on offense?

I agree that our offense will be killer if we can solidify the line with another guard and tackle who can play today.
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Old 04-16-2016, 10:25 AM   #3
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Re: So SP was experimenting last year on offense?

Yeah, I like EJW, he's one of the few over there that I respect. He's not always right, but he is most of the time.
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Old 04-16-2016, 10:29 AM   #4
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Re: So SP was experimenting last year on offense?

The play at RT and the fact Peat trips over his feet shuffling to the right is a reason I believe the saints went more of a heavy TE set. Though I can see why they would not say it but I think it had more to do with it than they want to admit.

Hunter Henry*, TE, Arkansas 6052 253 4.68
Against all odds he falls to us we would have to go after him. But we have Fleener and Hill already

Nick Vannett TE Ohio State 6056 256 4.89
Here is a solid option for a traditional Old school TE. But we have only Hooma in this role.

those are my two favs. Well instead of drafting a WR I guess we can load the field with TEs. 3 and long and the saints deploy their 5 TE set?

OG and RT are still my number one concerns. Drew must stay healthy. Next years defense is not Denver's by any stretch of the imagination.

"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins
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Old 04-16-2016, 11:25 AM   #5
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Re: So SP was experimenting last year on offense?

The Saints offense in 2015 was good not great with in my opinion the worst WRs and RBs in the NFL. Willie Snead I believe led the team in most if not all receiving categories. Obviously Drew Brees carried us. No TE last year was a threat to beat a good safety and that left the Saints O trying to make Mark Ingram Adrian Peterson. I like Ingram and he had a good year but he cant carry a team by himself and he didnt carry Bama, Saban and their D did. Did I see we resigned Tavaris Cadet? Why? I have two names I like for the Saints this year. Treadwell from Ole Miss is a stud who is like Colston with moves and speed. At 12 Id love Treadwell. In the second round we need Kenneth Dixon, RB LA Tech. He is just like Pierre Thomas. 87 TDs in college I think most by a college RB ever. Great heart, moves, quickness and toughness showing elite ability to get yards after contact. We let too many local kids leave town. Matt Forte, Jeremy Hill-3rd rd pick. Dixon is an every down back with everything but breakaway speed- vision, hands, jaw dropping moves, hard runner who fights for every inch and is great at getting in the end zone. I did mention 87 TDs right? His style actually reminds me a little more of Dalton Hilliard than PT because of his dazzling moves but of course he doesnt have Daltons thighs. So Treadwell RD1, Dixon RD2 and we get lucky and Nmdyche NT from Ole Miss slips because of one stupid night he fell out a hotel room window. Oops! More talented than JJ Watt physically though. Next to Nick Fairley if we can wake up that monster I say my plan looks plausible. I like the Laurinitis and Fairley signings. Laurinitis had 18 tackles in a losing effort in college vs LSU. Fairley was completely unblockable in college. Definetely really quick for his size and Fleener is very similar to Shockey with more height and speed. 6"6 250lbs 4.5 40 yd dash. Hes an average blocker but a polished route runner with great hands on a tall athletic receiver. Id love to see an old school Mike Ditka or Mark Bavaro TE who could block a DE alone but TEs that block like a tackle usually run like a tackle. Fleener is a willing blocker. No he cant block Cam Jordan alone but Jimmy Graham couldnt block ANYONE. I know this is obvious but Fleener is a Fantasy gem for sure. Probably the second Fantasy TE drafted and hell probably get 80 plus catches for nearly 1000Yds and 10 or more TDs. Before yall kill me for the Treadwell idea, if he is an Amari Cooper, AJ Green level talent how is that not awesome? Does anyone else ever wonder if a TE who can block like a tackle and although is slow, runs great routes, punishes tacklers whenever possible and has great hands could still work in the NFL? I.E. Hoby Brenner. Fleener will help us but if your TE cant help in the run game, why wouldnt defenses just treat him like a 3rd WR and play nickel when hes in there? I hope he blocks better than they say.
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Old 04-16-2016, 06:18 PM   #6
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Re: So SP was experimenting last year on offense?

^This has nothing to do with fantasy, but how our offense will look next year.

And I'm not sure we're drafting a TE I think Hill is gonna get more involved(brace yourselves).
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Old 04-16-2016, 06:19 PM   #7
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Re: So SP was experimenting last year on offense?

What I did find interesting was the saints offense being like Stanford. So that's why Fleener was signed and he obviously was not a fit in Indy I guess.
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Old 04-16-2016, 06:42 PM   #8
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Re: So SP was experimenting last year on offense?

Originally Posted by WillSaints81 View Post
What I did find interesting was the saints offense being like Stanford. So that's why Fleener was signed and he obviously was not a fit in Indy I guess.
Is this a sign of things to come? Stanford? Run to set up the pass? Hogan in the 5th? Bigger smash mouth OL yet to come? makes on wonder

second round OG ?
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Old 04-16-2016, 09:00 PM   #9
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Re: So SP was experimenting last year on offense?

Idk, I don't think we can be run-first. And Ingram is not that kind of back as Billy said.
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Old 04-17-2016, 12:23 AM   #10
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Re: So SP was experimenting last year on offense?

Originally Posted by WillSaints81 View Post
Idk, I don't think we can be run-first. And Ingram is not that kind of back as Billy said.
Well If we have a top five defense, stud pass catchers who the D have to account for denying them the ability to put 7, 8 men in the box, then yeah, we could play run first. Truthfully, the older Brees gets the more we should probably run the ball. Anyway our defense hasn't been anywhere near good enough to play that way and we all know Payton doesn't want to.
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