Saints release QB Garrett Grayson, third-round pick in 2015.

AsylumGuido · 09-07-2016, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

I hated the idea of drafting him where they did. To me, it makes more sense to either go all in and draft one in the first round, if you are trying to prepare for the future, or just keep taking QB's late in the draft every year or two and see if you can find a diamond in the rough.

Taking one in the third is like saying you want a QB, but you don't, but you do. Sure, you could hit a home run, but you could just as easily do so with a 6th round pick. The vast majority of the top QB's are first rounders or high second round. It just isn't a position to screw around with in the middle rounds.

If the future they were drafting for was a backup it makes perfect sense. The league goes through more backups than starters. Backups are just as important in that it is a required roster spot. If one turns into a starter, fine, but a backup will be needed earlier. The Saints would have loved to save money on the position but McCown was just too much better. I don't believe the Saints had any real expectation that Grayson would ever start when drafting him.

Danno · 09-07-2016, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

I hated the idea of drafting him where they did. To me, it makes more sense to either go all in and draft one in the first round, if you are trying to prepare for the future, or just keep taking QB's late in the draft every year or two and see if you can find a diamond in the rough.

Taking one in the third is like saying you want a QB, but you don't, but you do. Sure, you could hit a home run, but you could just as easily do so with a 6th round pick. The vast majority of the top QB's are first rounders or high second round. It just isn't a position to screw around with in the middle rounds.

Thats a good point. After Brees it may be fortuitous to have a 1-15, 2-14 type seasons in order to draft the next Manning, Luck, Rodgers etc...

The problem is that the rest of the team pretty much has to suck to get a top 3 pick, which would imply that you'd need more than 1 year to rebuild into a competitor even with a stud QB of the future.

I wonder just how many teams became instantly competitive with a to 10 QB pick.

My guess is that they were so bad to start with that it took that team several years to become a contender with that top 10 QB pick.

burningmetal · 09-07-2016, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

If the future they were drafting for was a backup it makes perfect sense. The league goes through more backups than starters. Backups are just as important in that it is a required roster spot. If one turns into a starter, fine, but a backup will be needed earlier. The Saints would have loved to save money on the position but McCown was just too much better. I don't believe the Saints had any real expectation that Grayson would ever start when drafting him.

I don't know if they expected him to ever start or not. But you don't draft that high for a backup. They already had backups.

As I just stated above, you can just as easily "hit" on a QB late as you can in the middle. If you are serious about looking for a starter you draft in the first. Take a look at the QB's in the league right now. Bunch of first or high second round guys are starting, then you have Brady who was a sixth rounder and then it's mostly late round guys either as starter or backup.

There just isn't any real reason to take a chance in the third round. Russell Wilson worked for the Seahawks, but he was a much more productive and proven player than Grayson was coming out. Size was the issue.

lee909 · 09-07-2016, 06:48 PM

I could easily be swayed to the opinion that the cap is being manipulated as it is so that when Drew retires the front office dump bad contracts in trades/releases so they try to do a major rebuild in one year.

Drew goes,dump contracts you dont want eat dead money and start afresh the year after. Its obviously soeculation but it would make sense. They must have a plan of some sort. If they settle the current line doen with a couple of younger Guards a young QB would be in a good position with a good line and good skill players.

Who knows

saintfan · 09-07-2016, 07:01 PM

Save up all your picks, trade them (all of them) for the pick that gets you the guy you wan...

Never mind.

burningmetal · 09-07-2016, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

Thats a good point. After Brees it may be fortuitous to have a 1-15, 2-14 type seasons in order to draft the next Manning, Luck, Rodgers etc...

The problem is that the rest of the team pretty much has to suck to get a top 3 pick, which would imply that you'd need more than 1 year to rebuild into a competitor even with a stud QB of the future.

I wonder just how many teams became instantly competitive with a to 10 QB pick.

My guess is that they were so bad to start with that it took that team several years to become a contender with that top 10 QB pick.

It doesn't have to be a top 3 or even top 10 pick. I said 1st round, early second round range. If you take a look at the top starters in the league, they come from all around that range, except for Brady (6th round) Romo (undrafted) Wilson (3rd round) Cousins (4th round).

That shows that if you want a franchise QB, you have to go early, and if you're hoping to get lucky, you stand as much chance in the late rounds as you do in the middle to find a starter or backup. I'm fine if they take late shots at QB's. And it's ok to maybe take a chance in the middle if you don't have any obvious depth issues at other positions. We've had that problem for some time now.

burningmetal · 09-07-2016, 07:23 PM

And since you brought up Rodgers, what was he? The 24th pick or somewhere around there?

You don't have to tank to get a shot at a good QB.

Danno · 09-07-2016, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

And since you brought up Rodgers, what was he? The 24th pick or somewhere around there?

You don't have to tank to get a shot at a good QB.

True, but he was projected top 5. It was shock that he slipped so far.

NOLA54 · 09-07-2016, 07:32 PM

Stunning! Another wasted draft pick position?

burningmetal · 09-07-2016, 07:37 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

True, but he was projected top 5. It was shock that he slipped so far.

It was a surprise, but people make projections based on what they think a team wants. All it takes is for that one team to pass on him, and other teams have different needs. Suddenly you take a slide.

The Saints have picked in the top 15 a lot. You can hit home runs in that range. But they haven't needed a QB that bad. As he is getting older, if the team should continue to underwhelm, it might be a good idea to get out ahead of things and look to draft a QB in the first.

If they get better, maybe just keep shuffling in late rounders. Taking a guy in the third is just a weird idea to me. It makes it seem like QB is a priority, yet not that much of a priority... If that makes sense. I just look around and see a lot more guys who came from no where to become decent starters or backups, and sometimes hall of famers, than I do of the guys in the middle rounds.

The point being, taking one outside the first round is really sketchy, so why not just take your chances in the later rounds.

09-07-2016, 06:34 PM	#51
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,391	Re: Saints release QB Garrett Grayson, third-round pick in 2015. Originally Posted by burningmetal I hated the idea of drafting him where they did. To me, it makes more sense to either go all in and draft one in the first round, if you are trying to prepare for the future, or just keep taking QB's late in the draft every year or two and see if you can find a diamond in the rough. Taking one in the third is like saying you want a QB, but you don't, but you do. Sure, you could hit a home run, but you could just as easily do so with a 6th round pick. The vast majority of the top QB's are first rounders or high second round. It just isn't a position to screw around with in the middle rounds. If the future they were drafting for was a backup it makes perfect sense. The league goes through more backups than starters. Backups are just as important in that it is a required roster spot. If one turns into a starter, fine, but a backup will be needed earlier. The Saints would have loved to save money on the position but McCown was just too much better. I don't believe the Saints had any real expectation that Grayson would ever start when drafting him.

09-07-2016, 06:43 PM	#52
Danno Site Donor 2014 Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,640	Re: Saints release QB Garrett Grayson, third-round pick in 2015. Originally Posted by burningmetal I hated the idea of drafting him where they did. To me, it makes more sense to either go all in and draft one in the first round, if you are trying to prepare for the future, or just keep taking QB's late in the draft every year or two and see if you can find a diamond in the rough. Taking one in the third is like saying you want a QB, but you don't, but you do. Sure, you could hit a home run, but you could just as easily do so with a 6th round pick. The vast majority of the top QB's are first rounders or high second round. It just isn't a position to screw around with in the middle rounds. Thats a good point. After Brees it may be fortuitous to have a 1-15, 2-14 type seasons in order to draft the next Manning, Luck, Rodgers etc... The problem is that the rest of the team pretty much has to suck to get a top 3 pick, which would imply that you'd need more than 1 year to rebuild into a competitor even with a stud QB of the future. I wonder just how many teams became instantly competitive with a to 10 QB pick. My guess is that they were so bad to start with that it took that team several years to become a contender with that top 10 QB pick.

09-07-2016, 06:46 PM	#53
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,905 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Saints release QB Garrett Grayson, third-round pick in 2015. Originally Posted by AsylumGuido If the future they were drafting for was a backup it makes perfect sense. The league goes through more backups than starters. Backups are just as important in that it is a required roster spot. If one turns into a starter, fine, but a backup will be needed earlier. The Saints would have loved to save money on the position but McCown was just too much better. I don't believe the Saints had any real expectation that Grayson would ever start when drafting him. I don't know if they expected him to ever start or not. But you don't draft that high for a backup. They already had backups. As I just stated above, you can just as easily "hit" on a QB late as you can in the middle. If you are serious about looking for a starter you draft in the first. Take a look at the QB's in the league right now. Bunch of first or high second round guys are starting, then you have Brady who was a sixth rounder and then it's mostly late round guys either as starter or backup. There just isn't any real reason to take a chance in the third round. Russell Wilson worked for the Seahawks, but he was a much more productive and proven player than Grayson was coming out. Size was the issue.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

09-07-2016, 06:48 PM	#54
lee909 Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Watford England Posts: 8,716 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Saints release QB Garrett Grayson, third-round pick in 2015. I could easily be swayed to the opinion that the cap is being manipulated as it is so that when Drew retires the front office dump bad contracts in trades/releases so they try to do a major rebuild in one year. Drew goes,dump contracts you dont want eat dead money and start afresh the year after. Its obviously soeculation but it would make sense. They must have a plan of some sort. If they settle the current line doen with a couple of younger Guards a young QB would be in a good position with a good line and good skill players. Who knows
	"Two receivers to the left, Garcon to the right. Manning in the shotgun, puts Collie in motion. Looks in his direction...it's picked off! It's picked off! It's Tracy Porter again! He's runnin' free! He's gonna go all the way!

09-07-2016, 07:01 PM	#55
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Saints release QB Garrett Grayson, third-round pick in 2015. Save up all your picks, trade them (all of them) for the pick that gets you the guy you wan... Never mind. foreverfan and SmashMouth like this.

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09-07-2016, 07:13 PM	#56
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,905 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Saints release QB Garrett Grayson, third-round pick in 2015. Originally Posted by Danno Thats a good point. After Brees it may be fortuitous to have a 1-15, 2-14 type seasons in order to draft the next Manning, Luck, Rodgers etc... The problem is that the rest of the team pretty much has to suck to get a top 3 pick, which would imply that you'd need more than 1 year to rebuild into a competitor even with a stud QB of the future. I wonder just how many teams became instantly competitive with a to 10 QB pick. My guess is that they were so bad to start with that it took that team several years to become a contender with that top 10 QB pick. It doesn't have to be a top 3 or even top 10 pick. I said 1st round, early second round range. If you take a look at the top starters in the league, they come from all around that range, except for Brady (6th round) Romo (undrafted) Wilson (3rd round) Cousins (4th round). That shows that if you want a franchise QB, you have to go early, and if you're hoping to get lucky, you stand as much chance in the late rounds as you do in the middle to find a starter or backup. I'm fine if they take late shots at QB's. And it's ok to maybe take a chance in the middle if you don't have any obvious depth issues at other positions. We've had that problem for some time now.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

09-07-2016, 07:23 PM	#57
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,905 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Saints release QB Garrett Grayson, third-round pick in 2015. And since you brought up Rodgers, what was he? The 24th pick or somewhere around there? You don't have to tank to get a shot at a good QB.

09-07-2016, 07:25 PM	#58
Danno Site Donor 2014 Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,640	Re: Saints release QB Garrett Grayson, third-round pick in 2015. Originally Posted by burningmetal And since you brought up Rodgers, what was he? The 24th pick or somewhere around there? You don't have to tank to get a shot at a good QB. True, but he was projected top 5. It was shock that he slipped so far.

09-07-2016, 07:32 PM	#59
NOLA54 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,701 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Saints release QB Garrett Grayson, third-round pick in 2015. Stunning! Another wasted draft pick position? Halo likes this.

09-07-2016, 07:37 PM	#60
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,905 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Saints release QB Garrett Grayson, third-round pick in 2015. Originally Posted by Danno True, but he was projected top 5. It was shock that he slipped so far. It was a surprise, but people make projections based on what they think a team wants. All it takes is for that one team to pass on him, and other teams have different needs. Suddenly you take a slide. The Saints have picked in the top 15 a lot. You can hit home runs in that range. But they haven't needed a QB that bad. As he is getting older, if the team should continue to underwhelm, it might be a good idea to get out ahead of things and look to draft a QB in the first. If they get better, maybe just keep shuffling in late rounders. Taking a guy in the third is just a weird idea to me. It makes it seem like QB is a priority, yet not that much of a priority... If that makes sense. I just look around and see a lot more guys who came from no where to become decent starters or backups, and sometimes hall of famers, than I do of the guys in the middle rounds. The point being, taking one outside the first round is really sketchy, so why not just take your chances in the later rounds.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

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