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Horn Interview part 2...really good read...

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; two years sure. but he is talking four. think you\'ll be happy doling out top 5 pay to him at age 38? trade brooks? whodi is on brooks sabbatical so i\'ll say it- heck yeah. no way he is worth ...

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Old 03-10-2005, 01:21 PM   #11
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Horn Interview part 2...really good read...

two years sure. but he is talking four. think you\'ll be happy doling out top 5 pay to him at age 38?

trade brooks? whodi is on brooks sabbatical so i\'ll say it- heck yeah. no way he is worth $6mil a yr. give me mike mcmahon for $2mil and let alex smith, andrew walter, or someone train for a season or two and i have a few million more to remodel the defense.

give me another will smith and courtney watson with $14million to spend!

bye bye lawyer milloy, antowain smith, tebucky jones, joe andruzzi, troy brown, roman phifer, etc.- you cost too much for us. we want a 4th championship in 5 years.
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Old 03-10-2005, 01:30 PM   #12
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Horn Interview part 2...really good read...

But in your mind, is it better to trade Howard or not be able to give new contracts to Deuce, MM, Bentley, and Horn? Cause that is the trade off for keeping Howard in case you weren\'t aware.
Really? Can you please show me how Howard\'s $8 mil this season stops the Saints from signing FOUR other guys who will all demand top five money? Besides, are you suggesting that we trade Howard and not sign anyone else of his caliber? I mean, what do you think it would cost to sign Hartwell? At least HALF of what Howard costs. So now with $4 million this year we\'re going to sign FOUR players demanding top 5 money?


As for Horn\'s contract, you said it (as did I a long time ago). You make his contract incentive heavy... almost overloaded. If the guy produces like a top 5, he gets paid like one. If not, he doesn\'t. Besides, I\'ll bet you any amount of money that you want that the guy\'s contract will be backloaded. They ALWAYS are. He won\'t end up MAKING top 5 money even if his contract is WORTH top 5.


On more thing. There are 24 starting positions on a football team including kickers and punters. That means there are 120 players who have \"top 5\" contracts. That means there should be about 3.5 players paid \"top 5\" money per team. Currently, the Saints have 1 - Howard, who you want to trade.

Now, you admit that no player has EARNED top 5 money more than Joe Horn. So who are your top 5 guys moving forward? McKenzie? He\'s not top 5. Deuce? Maybe, if the guy has a good year this year and proves that he\'s not a really talented average RB. Bentley? Bentley is a top 5 center?

[Edited on 10/3/2005 by WhoDat]

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\"
he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"
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Old 03-10-2005, 02:02 PM   #13
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Horn Interview part 2...really good read...

When did these other players say they wanted top 5 money? I never heard that. Joe Horn did though. Flat out, he wants top 5 money. Of the players mentioned, Howard is pretty much guaranteed top 5 money. We can\'t afford that and yes his 8 mil is keeping us and will keep us from getting it done. MM is not gonna get top 5 money, and I have yet to hear him ask for ti from us. Nor Deuce, nor LeCharles. It is no secret they are working on an extension for LeCharles right now. So I really don\'t understand how it can be implied all these guys want top 5 money, when the only one who has said it is Horn.

We agree on Horn\'s contract being incentive heavy, but do you think Horn will go for that? He is looking for a big payday, I don\'t think we should give it to him. If he DOES accept it, fine. If not, he needs to realize he is almost 35, play out the last year, and we will see where things are then.

If we trade Howard, chances are we get a high second or a low first. I think that is pretty much his caliber. I am with LKelley on this one. To quote him:

give me another will smith and courtney watson with $14million to spend!
I\'d take that in a heartbeat. How could we not want that?
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Old 03-10-2005, 02:21 PM   #14
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Horn Interview part 2...really good read...

I agree..34 is old for Football...

But.. I can\'t ingore that fact that Horn is just flat out..our best player...

4 years would , without a doubt...seal him up for the remainder of his carreer, which is big for alot of us...cuz we want him to retire a Saint...

An incentive based contract is the only viable choice...Do I think he will take it?...Yes...His attitude is that of a winner...and a competetor...and he , in his mind, is a top 5 guy...and hethinks he can produce top 5...

Sign him up....and watch him go back to the Pro Bowl next year....maybe even the next 2 years....He\'s that good...
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Old 03-10-2005, 02:24 PM   #15
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Horn Interview part 2...really good read...

I don\'t disagree shadow, I really don\'t. If he accepts an incentive heavy contract, beautiful. Lock him up. But I don\'t think he will. We will see.
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Old 03-10-2005, 02:29 PM   #16
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Horn Interview part 2...really good read...

Let\'s also not forget that Howard didn\'t ask for top 5 money either. He may be willing to play for much less. We don\'t know. It\'s the Saints who have chosen to franchise him rather than work out a contract for the second year in a row.
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Old 03-10-2005, 03:26 PM   #17
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Horn Interview part 2...really good read...

Two words..

Darrell Green

Some rare players play beyond thier \'\'prime\'\'

I truley belive Horn is one of those guys...
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Old 03-10-2005, 03:52 PM   #18
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Horn Interview part 2...really good read...

something that we haven\'t talked about is Adrian mcpearson and the saints betting in their locker room--is that a place you want to put adrian mcPearson-he of the betting on his own games?
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Old 03-10-2005, 04:36 PM   #19
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Horn Interview part 2...really good read...

Just for you Who.

Howard faces uncertain future
Saints defensive end could be caught in a numbers game
Tuesday, January 04, 2005
By Josh Peter
Staff writer
Dumping his belongings into a trash bag, defensive end Darren Howard cleaned out his locker Monday, wondering if it would be the last time he\'d do so as a member of the Saints.

No player\'s future with the team has prompted as much speculation as Howard\'s.





A day after the Saints\' season ended, as players packed their personal belongings, Howard said he knows whether he\'ll return likely will come down to money and what role he\'ll play on the team.

\"It\'s going to be interesting to see what happens,\" said Howard, who completed his fifth season in the NFL, all with the Saints. \"Maybe I\'ll be here next year, and maybe not.\"

After drafting Will Smith in the first round in the 2004 draft, the Saints face a logjam at defensive end.

Howard, Smith and Charles Grant, a first-round pick in 2002 who has 27½ sacks in his three seasons with the Saints, all are highly regarded. This season, Howard led the team with 11 sacks, while Grant was second with 10½, and Smith was third with 7½.

But it\'s unlikely the Saints can pay market value to three players at the same position and maintain enough room under the salary cap for priorities such as securing a long-term deal with running back Deuce McAllister and acquiring new players.

Howard\'s $6.5 million salary this year might make him more expendable than Grant, whose salary is scheduled to count $1.32 million against the cap next year, and Smith, who has an even lower cap number. Howard said he knows General Manager Mickey Loomis will have to make a business decision and ultimately answer to owner Tom Benson.

\"I would try to sign all of (us) if I was the GM,\" said Howard, a second-round pick in 2000. \"If I was the owner, that\'s a different story. He\'s the guy with the pockets. That\'s the GM\'s job, to try to make the owner happy. . . . They can\'t dish out a whole lot of money all in the same position.\"
Attempts to reach Loomis for comment were unsuccessful. Saints coach Jim Haslett said, \"I don\'t know if we can keep them together, but it\'s a great trio.\"

Clearly, Howard is not happy with his evolving role. With the emergence of Smith, Howard frequently was moved on third-down passing situations from his preferred spot at end to tackle. Smith and Howard primarily play the same spot, right defensive end. Grant plays left end.

\"It\'s a whole \'nother world in there, giving up another 40, 50 pounds to some of those guys, and it\'s rough on my body,\" Howard said of playing defensive tackle. \"It\'s something that I can do every once in a while. But a large dose of it, I\'d rather not.
\"(Smith) is a young guy. He\'s going to be a great player here for the future. At the same time, I want to be part of a team where I\'m in the rotation all the time, not coming in every other series or third down going inside. I\'d like to play and I\'d like to rush off the edge. That\'s what I do (best). I want to be able to use my abilities to the fullest.\"

Last year, the Saints put the franchise tag on Howard, preventing him from testing the free-agent market while guaranteeing him an average of the top five salaries of players at his position. With that figure expected to jump from the current $6.5 million, Howard said he doesn\'t think the Saints will use the franchise tag on him again. That would allow Howard to offer his services to the highest bidder, and he said he has no intention of playing for less than market value.
The Saints discussed a long-term deal with Howard\'s agent, Gary Wichard, last year. But the two sides never came close to an agreement, Howard said. Attempts to reach Wichard Monday were unsuccessful.

The deadline for NFL teams to impose the franchise tag on a player is in February.

\"You got a couple of months for them to think about what\'s going to happen,\" Howard said. \"Right now, I\'m just trying to celebrate the last few games we won.\"
Yeah Who, howard doesn\'t wanna get paid. I wonder why they couldn\'t reach a long term deal. Hhhhmmmm....
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Old 03-10-2005, 04:39 PM   #20
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Horn Interview part 2...really good read...

I had actualy posted that same story a few months ago...

I wish there were some way that Howard and the team would agree to keep him on, and give us that deadly rotation...
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