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saintswhodi 03-18-2005 10:55 AM

If Joe is serious about holding out
 
trade him for a pick. If we get at least a Michael Clayton(Bucs, 80, catches 1100 yards) out of the deepest WR draft in years, we will be okay.


Quote:

Updated: Mar. 17, 2005, 12:15 PM ET
Edwards, Williams head deep WR class
By Todd McShay, Scouts Inc.
Todd McShay Archive

Much like the 2004 quarterback class, it is unfair to compare any draft class to the 2004 group of wide receivers.

However, while this year's quarterback group might not come close to stacking up to last year's, this year's wide receivers are at least in the same ballpark.

Seven members of the heralded 2004 class of receivers were selected in the first round. This year, as it stands right now, there's a good chance that five receivers will come off the board in the top 32 selections in the NFL draft. Braylon Edwards and Mike Williams are locks to go in the top 15, and both could conceivably be gone within the top five picks.



WilliamsAlthough Williams has loads of upside as a No. 1 receiver in the NFL, I still think Edwards is the better of the two. In fact, it's my opinion that Edwards is the most complete prospect – regardless of position – in the entire 2005 draft. Williams has two inches and 18 pounds on Edwards, but Edwards is no slouch in terms of size (6-3, 211) and he's significantly faster than Williams.

Edwards also proved more at the collegiate level, with 239 receptions in the past three seasons at Michigan. Williams did have 176 receptions in two seasons at USC (2002-03) but has been out of football for more than a year.

There is a bit of a drop-off after the top two elite receiver prospects, but Troy Williamson is an underrated star in the making. He may slip to the middle of the first round, but he's 6-1 and 203 pounds with 4.3-speed and a chip on his shoulder because of a lack of respect in this year's draft equation.

Williamson is an underclassman addition who did not put up big numbers in a run-heavy offensive scheme at South Carolina. However, he did improve each season in Columbia and shows the explosive skills to provide Chad Johnson-type production in the NFL.

Joining Edwards, Williams and Williamson as first-round prospects are Mark Clayton (Oklahoma) and Roddy White (UAB). Clayton is a much more consistent and complete prospect, but if White comes off the board first it has everything to do with his combination of size (6-1, 207) and speed (4.43). In our opinion, however, Clayton will become the better of the two as a professional and has a lot less "bust potential" – especially after running a 4.38 at the NFL combine.

The five potential first-round picks won't be the only receivers called on Day 1. There is a group of five prospects who could easily come off the board in the second round and another group of five prospects who could go in the third round. If that's the case, there could be 15 receivers taken by the end of Day 1, which would be two more than last year.

Of the five second-round prospects, Reggie Brown (Georgia) is the most complete, with a good combination of size, speed and production at the highest level. Teammate Fred Gibson and Chris Henry (West Virginia) are prospects with first-round talent, but character and durability issues will cause them to slip – Henry more for his character issues and Gibson more for his durability concerns.

Miami's Roscoe Parrish is aided by the emphasis on calling contact in the NFL, as he is a diminutive but consistent and explosive receiver who likely would have slipped to the bottom of Day 1 just a couple of years ago. The same is true for Hampton's Jerome Mathis, who skyrocketed into first-day contention with his 4.32 40-time at the combine.

The last group of five includes: Terrence Murphy (Texas A&M), a versatile receiver and return specialist with good speed; Matt Jones (Arkansas), a 6-6, 242-pound college QB turned WR/H-back who ran a 4.39 at the combine; Courtney Roby (Indiana), a late bloomer with blazing speed; Mark Bradley (Oklahoma), another late-bloomer with an impressive size/speed combo; and Vincent Jackson (Northern Colorado), one of the highest-rated small-school prospects in this class after dominating the DI-AA level at 6-4, 241 pounds.

There are also some deals to be had on Day 2. Craig Bragg (UCLA), Craphonso Thorpe (FSU) and Chase Lyman (Cal) were once considered Day 1 prospects before disappointing, injury-riddled senior seasons.



StubblefieldJ.R. Russell (Louisville), Josh Davis (Marshall), Taylor Stubblefield (Purdue), Steve Savoy (Utah), Brandon Jones (Oklahoma), Geoff McArthur (Cal), Airese Currie (Clemson), Chauncey Stovall (FSU) and Paris Warren (Utah) were all extremely productive receivers at the highest collegiate level, but their lack of ideal size and/or speed will cause them to slip on draft day.

Conversely, Larry Brackins (Pearl River C.C.), Leron McCoy (Indiana-Pa.), Tommy Manus (Morgan State), Isaac West (Furman) and Stephen Rush (SW Missouri State) all lack DI-A credentials but have the NFL "measurables" to outproduce some of the aforementioned big-name collegiate stars.

Finally, as usual, there is a group of Day 2 receiver prospects who will get drafted more for their versatility and potential to produce in the return game than anything else. That group includes Chad Owens (Hawaii), Charles Frederick (Washington), Tab Perry (UCLA), Rasheed Marshall (West Virginia), Jamaica Rector (NW Missouri State) and Efrem Hill (Stanford).

[Edited on 18/3/2005 by saintswhodi]

GoldenTomb 03-18-2005 11:01 AM

If Joe is serious about holding out
 
You beat me to the punch whodi.

The Saints kind of backed themselves into a corner...I don\'t want to see Joe go but all of a sudden it might be the best possible move for the team. Given this contract situation and his age, it\'s way too risky to keep him and have him possibly hold out the whole season, when we could trade him and start fresh with a younger WR.

I wouldn\'t mind seeing a Mark Clayton in the Black and Gold this season.

saintswhodi 03-18-2005 11:03 AM

If Joe is serious about holding out
 
If Joe gets reasonable, I take it all back. Stay Joe. But Joe is getting worse and worse, and it\'s best we address it now instead of after the draft. Also, aren\'t we supposed to be more run oriented starting next year? Seems like the right time. Let\'s hope Joe gets reasonable, and if not, c-ya.

LKelley67 03-18-2005 11:12 AM

If Joe is serious about holding out
 
this is a great draft to have 2nd rounders. i was fantasizing on another thread... get dallas\' #42 in a howard deal, n.o. #16 would be dealable for the eagles #31 and #35. now trade joe for say the niners #33 (someone for rodgers to throw to). count the current #40 and the team picks 31, 33, 35, 40, and 42. that would be more exciting than the prospects of a dj move up to me. there will be some hot wideouts at #16 if ya stay there too, troy williamson is a burner. woohoo.

GumboBC 03-18-2005 11:13 AM

If Joe is serious about holding out
 
There\'s no way to know if Joe is serious of not. We\'ll see...

But, let me say this. I think our offense would suffer if Joe Horn didn\'t play this year. I don\'t like depending on rookies, no matter what some other rookie WR might have done in the past, it really has no bearing on what some other rookie might do.

I want Joe Horn here. I don\'t hold grudges against players. I could care less what Joe says right now. Joe is looking out for Joe and I don\'t blame him. It\'s part of the business.

What Joe says or does RIGHT NOW doesn\'t bother me. Its what Joe does during the season that matters to me.


Joe wants more money? BIG DEAL. Joe says he\'s gonna hold out? BIG DEAL. Go for it Joe. I don\'t blame you. You\'ve got to look out for Joe Horn. Just like Deuce has to look out for Deuce.

The bottom line for me is ... Will Joe Horn be reasonble when the time comes. I think he will. But, we\'ll see.

LKelley67 03-18-2005 12:00 PM

If Joe is serious about holding out
 
i dont think negotiation for compensation this year and even into 2006 would be hard to work out. imo, it is when you start negotiating even top 10 wr pay for 3 and 4 years in the future at his age is where the difficulty arises. i wouldnt even feel too bad to give him top 6ish pay for 2 years. i think the risk of expecting his level of production to continue past that is too great to warrant such. the options to me are incentives, 2 years with options, or level the whole thing out over 4 years (which may be a pay cut LOL).

i wish there was some dat buzz. contract negotiating sucks. that what loomis is for. LOL

WhoDat 03-18-2005 12:04 PM

If Joe is serious about holding out
 
Quote:

What Joe says or does RIGHT NOW doesn\'t bother me. Its what Joe does during the season that matters to me.
So if a guy is second in the league at his position \"during the season,\" does he deserve to be paid as such? :)

You guys need to all chill. This is posturing for a negotiation. Of course Horn is going to demand top 5 money and say he will hold out if he doesn\'t get it. Just like Mickey Loomis is saying that Horn has proven himself and hasn\'t been a team player over the last 5 years. There isn\'t a guy on the team who has proven himself more... Loomis knows that, and he probably knows that Horn won\'t really demand top 5 when it comes down to it. It\'s posturing - same as what Benson and Blanco are doing. Calm it down.

BlackandBlue 03-18-2005 12:12 PM

If Joe is serious about holding out
 
Can we please take all this Horn discussion to one thread, and close the remaining three? We\'re bouncing around from thread to thread listening to the same arguments.
Pick one, I don\'t care which, just pick one and stay there.

[Edited on 18/3/2005 by BlackandBlue]


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