Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!

Euphoria · 03-15-2017, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

I'm really against this Butler trade though I've got the feeling Sean & D.A. have their minds set...

For the life of me, why do you take on Butler if New England is discarding him?

Butler literally made a goal-line, game-winning interception as an unheralded, undrafted rookie free agent...

Two years later, MB was your shutdown cornerback on yet another Superbowl run...

The Pats still saw fit to sign Buffalo's Gilmore and let him walk?

IMHO, New England is much better at defensive talent eval than the Saints.

Why didn't we get into the bidding for Gilmore then if he's better?

And Payton and DA are both on record saying they'd like to have a CB with length for matching up with big receivers in our division.

So why are we adding Butler who's 5' 9-1/2" and 190 lbs wet?

The corner that we've professed we want will be there with pick 32 and you'll have cap friendly numbers for four years with a fifth option.

It's not the ***d*mn corners but the Safety and Pass Rush that's been the problem...

We over commit way too much resources on veterans, backing ourselves up against the wall when we need to rotate in some rookies every year...

They aren't discarding him at all... They slapped a restricted tener on him if we sign him and they don't match we lose our #11 pick in the draft. The only possible way I would be ok with signing him is if we re work the Cooks trade.

I want him but not at the cost of our #11 NO WAY.

Euphoria · 03-15-2017, 11:51 AM

The art of the Butler deal...

- we sign him we lose our #11 pick.
- The only way around that is to re-work the Cooks deal.
- I think NE and NO realized their mistake with the 4th round pick. So that would give them a chance to correct that gaff. We have to get that pick back and trade it back and get something for it before NE can have it and forfiet it. We may also get it back and keep it altogether.

burningmetal · 03-15-2017, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

They hadn't had the opportunity to meet with Butler yet and had to move quickly on Cooks. They have to have something worked out with Btler in advance. It all make perfect sense.

I'm scratching my head on this one for a number of reasons. Proponents of this deal keep making this claim that "they must have a deal in place", which even if true, is not at all related to my issue with it.

I don't care if they have a deal worked out with Butler. I'm saying what are we giving up to get him. And why exactly do we need him so bad?

Also, why do you say they had to move quickly on Cooks? What's the rush? That doesn't make perfect sense to me. People seem convinced that a deal in place means we won't get fleeced again.

Seer1 · 03-15-2017, 12:07 PM

Aren't we kind of beating a horse that hasn't yet been born here?

saintsfan1976 · 03-15-2017, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

I know you know better than that. System players are a real thing in this league. You might disagree with the assessment that Butler is one of them, but there are countless examples of guys who can only produce in certain systems.

Where did I say system players don't exist?

lee909 · 03-15-2017, 12:46 PM

There is another tempting issue

If the Pats dont play ball and demand a one this year wait till 2 days before the draft and sign him to a tender. they wont get the pick till 2018 and with a bit of luck it will be pick 32 ad we wont care

AsylumGuido · 03-15-2017, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

I'm scratching my head on this one for a number of reasons. Proponents of this deal keep making this claim that "they must have a deal in place", which even if true, is not at all related to my issue with it.

I don't care if they have a deal worked out with Butler. I'm saying what are we giving up to get him. And why exactly do we need him so bad?

Also, why do you say they had to move quickly on Cooks? What's the rush? That doesn't make perfect sense to me. People seem convinced that a deal in place means we won't get fleeced again.

If they didn't get a deal done on Cooks before this past Monday the Saints would have had to eat his $781K roster bonus. By making the deal before then the Patriots had to take the hit. Perfectly logical.

AsylumGuido · 03-15-2017, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by Euphoria

The art of the Butler deal...

- we sign him we lose our #11 pick.
- The only way around that is to re-work the Cooks deal.
- I think NE and NO realized their mistake with the 4th round pick. So that would give them a chance to correct that gaff. We have to get that pick back and trade it back and get something for it before NE can have it and forfiet it. We may also get it back and keep it altogether.

No. There is another perfectly logical option you are ignoring. First the Pats and the Saints agree to a trade for Butler for whatever value. The Saints meet with Butler and agree to a deal. They don't finalize anything. They only agree. Then Butler signs the offered tender with the Pats. The Pats and Saints execute the agreed upon trade. The Saints and Butler execute the agreed upon deal.

That simple.

voodooido · 03-15-2017, 12:58 PM

I can pretty much promise this deal will happen. Hightower just signed a 4 yr 43 million contract with the pats. No way they pay 3 defensive players 30+ million a year.

Tobias-Reiper · 03-15-2017, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

For you stat geeks, in 2016 Butler was the #3 cover corner by PFF (91.1)

The stat website also listed him as the #4 overall corner (90.4)

That's far from being a "system guy". And if he signs we have the best CB tandem since Porter & Greer.

I'm warming up.

Did you check the competition he faced as well?
When it comes to covering the passing game, the NFC South is a very different animal than the AFC East.

03-15-2017, 11:47 AM	#131
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday! Originally Posted by jeanpierre I'm really against this Butler trade though I've got the feeling Sean & D.A. have their minds set... For the life of me, why do you take on Butler if New England is discarding him? Butler literally made a goal-line, game-winning interception as an unheralded, undrafted rookie free agent... Two years later, MB was your shutdown cornerback on yet another Superbowl run... The Pats still saw fit to sign Buffalo's Gilmore and let him walk? IMHO, New England is much better at defensive talent eval than the Saints. Why didn't we get into the bidding for Gilmore then if he's better? And Payton and DA are both on record saying they'd like to have a CB with length for matching up with big receivers in our division. So why are we adding Butler who's 5' 9-1/2" and 190 lbs wet? The corner that we've professed we want will be there with pick 32 and you'll have cap friendly numbers for four years with a fifth option. It's not the **dmn corners but the Safety and Pass Rush that's been the problem... We over commit way too much resources on veterans, backing ourselves up against the wall when we need to rotate in some rookies every year... They aren't discarding him at all... They slapped a restricted tener on him if we sign him and they don't match we lose our #11 pick in the draft. The only possible way I would be ok with signing him is if we re work the Cooks trade. I want him but not at the cost of our #11 NO WAY.

03-15-2017, 11:51 AM	#132
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday! The art of the Butler deal... - we sign him we lose our #11 pick. - The only way around that is to re-work the Cooks deal. - I think NE and NO realized their mistake with the 4th round pick. So that would give them a chance to correct that gaff. We have to get that pick back and trade it back and get something for it before NE can have it and forfiet it. We may also get it back and keep it altogether.

03-15-2017, 12:02 PM	#133
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,905 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday! Originally Posted by AsylumGuido They hadn't had the opportunity to meet with Butler yet and had to move quickly on Cooks. They have to have something worked out with Btler in advance. It all make perfect sense. I'm scratching my head on this one for a number of reasons. Proponents of this deal keep making this claim that "they must have a deal in place", which even if true, is not at all related to my issue with it. I don't care if they have a deal worked out with Butler. I'm saying what are we giving up to get him. And why exactly do we need him so bad? Also, why do you say they had to move quickly on Cooks? What's the rush? That doesn't make perfect sense to me. People seem convinced that a deal in place means we won't get fleeced again.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

03-15-2017, 12:07 PM	#134
Seer1 Site Donor Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Bayou Bayfield CO Posts: 4,722	Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday! Aren't we kind of beating a horse that hasn't yet been born here?

03-15-2017, 12:32 PM	#135
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,529 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday! Originally Posted by burningmetal I know you know better than that. System players are a real thing in this league. You might disagree with the assessment that Butler is one of them, but there are countless examples of guys who can only produce in certain systems. Where did I say system players don't exist?

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03-15-2017, 12:46 PM	#136
lee909 Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Watford England Posts: 8,716 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday! There is another tempting issue If the Pats dont play ball and demand a one this year wait till 2 days before the draft and sign him to a tender. they wont get the pick till 2018 and with a bit of luck it will be pick 32 ad we wont care

03-15-2017, 12:48 PM	#137
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,391	Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday! Originally Posted by burningmetal I'm scratching my head on this one for a number of reasons. Proponents of this deal keep making this claim that "they must have a deal in place", which even if true, is not at all related to my issue with it. I don't care if they have a deal worked out with Butler. I'm saying what are we giving up to get him. And why exactly do we need him so bad? Also, why do you say they had to move quickly on Cooks? What's the rush? That doesn't make perfect sense to me. People seem convinced that a deal in place means we won't get fleeced again. If they didn't get a deal done on Cooks before this past Monday the Saints would have had to eat his $781K roster bonus. By making the deal before then the Patriots had to take the hit. Perfectly logical.

03-15-2017, 12:53 PM	#138
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,391	Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday! Originally Posted by Euphoria The art of the Butler deal... - we sign him we lose our #11 pick. - The only way around that is to re-work the Cooks deal. - I think NE and NO realized their mistake with the 4th round pick. So that would give them a chance to correct that gaff. We have to get that pick back and trade it back and get something for it before NE can have it and forfiet it. We may also get it back and keep it altogether. No. There is another perfectly logical option you are ignoring. First the Pats and the Saints agree to a trade for Butler for whatever value. The Saints meet with Butler and agree to a deal. They don't finalize anything. They only agree. Then Butler signs the offered tender with the Pats. The Pats and Saints execute the agreed upon trade. The Saints and Butler execute the agreed upon deal. That simple. ChrisXVI likes this.
	Last edited by AsylumGuido; 03-15-2017 at 01:05 PM..

03-15-2017, 12:58 PM	#139
voodooido 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 2,739	Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday! I can pretty much promise this deal will happen. Hightower just signed a 4 yr 43 million contract with the pats. No way they pay 3 defensive players 30+ million a year.
voodooido 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 2,739

03-15-2017, 01:00 PM	#140
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday! Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 For you stat geeks, in 2016 Butler was the #3 cover corner by PFF (91.1) The stat website also listed him as the #4 overall corner (90.4) That's far from being a "system guy". And if he signs we have the best CB tandem since Porter & Greer. I'm warming up. Did you check the competition he faced as well? When it comes to covering the passing game, the NFC South is a very different animal than the AFC East.

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