Saints and filling needs.
 

Well, we've lived through most of the free-agent period. Most Saints' fans have a little different opinion on the results, however ...

Of course, I have my own thought process about the results we achieved in free-agency.

I'm going to break the Saints' free-agency down it 2 parts.

Positives and Negatives...

Let's go with the positives first:

Positives:

1. Signing FS Dwight Smith. We get a proven playmaker who has the experience and skills to cover some of the premeir tightends and Dwight can also make plays once the ball is in the air. Something that's been truly missing in the past with Tebucky Jones.

2. Signing Mayberry -- He's not the best RT that was avalible in free agency. But, he's definately an upgrade over Victor Riley. And I believe it's something to be said for that. I aslo think Mayberry's attitude will be a welcomed addition to the offensive line.

3. Getting rid of Tebucky Jones and Victor Riley -- Sends a message to the other players. One that's been long past due, IMHO.

4. Resigning some of our free-agents.


Negatives:

1. Not signing a proven LB. It's my belief that a MIDDLE linebacker is needed. That's where I think we could get the biggest bang for our buck as far as linebackers go.

2. Not signing a proven defensive tackle. Right now all we've got is Howard Green and Jonathan Sullivan. Kinda of risky if you ask me.


All in all, I don't think we had a lot of glaring holes that needed to be filled.

My wish list was: MLB, RT, LT, DT and safety.

I can live with Wayne Gandy. He did play hurt last season and I believe we can get another year out of him.

So, that leaves MLB and DT.

Right now I give the Saints a 'C' in free agency.

If we get Dat Nygen with the Howard trade, that grade will go up to a 'B'.

Then we need to take care of business in the draft.

Saints and filling needs.
 

I agree witht he positives...we did a pretty darn good job, and I really think we are going to benefit , and be a better team..

The D tackle position is the real question...Sully, is damn expesive..and I can agree with the team giving him one final chance...I really don\'t think He will be the guy they need, but, That\'s one GIANT sh*t sandwich, and we have to take a bite...And it\'s going to suck...

Overall..I\'m excited again...I think Smith is going to explode for us...He has shown he can hang with TB, and make a name for himself in a big name Defense...

Mayberry may be great for us...I hope so, We desperately need some real muscle on the Front line...and with Deuce healthy again..things are really looking up..

We will have a great draft..and we will all be excited again real soon..and I think we need it..last year was TOUGH for us...

Saints and filling needs.
 

Wait a second. The Saints have their FOURTH straight AVERAGE season, after which they DIDN\'T FIRE the coach, DC of the LAST ranked defense in the league, but did lose the OC on the side of the ball that has actually been productive, did little to find a suitable replacement, and then in FA they DIDN\'T fill gapping holes at the SAME POSITIONS that have been PROBLEMS FOR FOUR YEARS (LB/DT), and you grade their offseason as AVERAGE. Tell me again, why am I supposed to be positive? Average year, no good changes in the coaching staff, average change in players = optimism?

Saints and filling needs.
 

WhoDat --

You know ... maybe you are right. Maybe we\'ll be 8-8 again. Ceratainly we didn\'t fill every need in free-agency this year.

But, IMO, we\'re miles ahead of where we were at at this point last year, WhoDat.

Last year AT THIS POINT our starting secondary consisted of:

1. Ashley Abrose
2. Fred Thomas
3. Tebucky Jones

This year our starting secondary consists of:

1. Mike McKenzie.
2. Fakir Brown
3. Dwight Smith.

Hell, that\'s an ALL-STAR backfield compared to what we had. Let\'s give the Saints some credit here ... Don\'t you think?

Now, I don\'t know about you, WhoDat, but, Mike McKenzie and Dwight Smith can start on my team any day of the week. And Fakir ain\'t too shabby either.

At defensive end we\'ve got Will Smith and Charles Grant. WOW! What a pair of studs?!

What does that leave, WhoDat. I\'ll be happy if we get ONE linebacker who is a play-maker.

What did you realistically expect?

Three linebackers, an offensive tackle, defensive tackle, and a free-safety?

Yeah, sure there are a couple of holes that need to be filled. But isn\'t the Darren Howard trade still on the table. And don\'t we still have the draft to go?

How, \'bout we let this thing run it\'s course before we write the team off?










[Edited on 22/3/2005 by GumboBC]

[Edited on 22/3/2005 by GumboBC]

Saints and filling needs.
 

Very well put Gumbo. You\'re not such a bad guy afterall, no matter what these goons say about you. :D

I to would give the Saints offseason thus far around a C. Whenever the Saints sign any player who is even decent, Saints fans try to hype him up to the level of greatness. In this case, we may be right. We\'ve all seen this guy play alot and we KNOW what he can do. No amount of hype is needed for Dwight, he\'s the real deal.

While D. Smith will have a major impact on not only the secondary, but the entire defense as well, I don\'t know if the signing of Mayberry will have the same kind of impact.

Nobody who knows anything about football would argue that Jermane Mayberry isn\'t an excellent player. Over the course of his career he has been rock solid and very versatile for the Eagles. He\'s a pro bolwer for heaven\'s sake and signing a pro bowl player never hurts. But (and this is a big but) can the guy hold up for an entire season at RT? Although Jermane has displayed the ability to play well at every spot on the line (except center), by all accounts his best posistion is RG. Hopefully we can plug him in at RT and he\'ll play there at a high level. At the same time though it would be foolish to assume that age, new line mates, and a new posistion won\'t affect his play at all.

When you think about it, we don\'t need Mayberry to play at a pro bowl level to have success. We\'ll be just fine if he can be solid in both run blocking and pass protection. The most important thing about Mayberry that alot of people don\'t realize is the fact that he is the Anti-Victor Riley. Remember all those things about Riley that drove us crazy like the holding, the falsestarts, the bonehead mistakes, etc, etc? :bandhead: Well Mayberry doesn\'t do that stupid stuff every other play! Of course he\'ll have a few flags thrown on him but nothing like that dumbazz Riley!!! :clap:

Saints and filling needs.
 

I remember Hoakie (maybe Mike D) said Mayberry is basically similar to Victor Riley, when he brings his A-game (a la 2003), and without all the mental mistakes, inconsistencies, and motivational/fitness swings.

Saints and filling needs.
 

DT...
Bryan Young-our best DT, but needs a fat boy beside him to really shine.
Howard Green-If he improves as much as he did last year, he could be solid. And I hate LSU.
Jonathan Sullivan-He won\'t be on the opening day roster.
Tony Bryant-Younger bigger version of Willie Whitehead, with more upside.
Willie Whitehead-I sure wish he was 27 again
Rodney Leisle-Jury out, may develop into a good run stuffer. hard worker, kinda the opposite of Sullivan.
Kenny Smith-Versatile, looked to be improving when knee blew. May not come back though.

While that line-up doesn\'t scare many, it does have potential to be decent. I\'m most enthusiastic about the progress of Green, Bryant, and Leisle. All three are young, hard working, determined and show promise. I still think we could use a proven fat-boy, but I\'m less worried about the 2-gap DT spot than I am the OLB positions.

Saints and filling needs.
 

Posts: 47
Registered: 16/3/2005

Saints and filling needs.
 

I personally am more optimistic -- of course that can be said every off season -- But I can point to several reasons to be optimistic --- (and of course they can turn out to be pathetic reasons). Here goes

1. The Saints did make their team better via free agency. Smith and Mayberry have improved those positions
2. They did go after linebackers -- just didn\'t land one -- right there it says that they no longer have their heads in the sand like most years.
3. Have and are addressing the contract situation with several key Saints players
4. Did show marked improvement over the last half of the season last year
5. Did get rid of Mcarthy hopefully improving the offense

So -- yeah -- I think there are reasons to be optimistic -==-
5.

Saints and filling needs.
 

still no linebackers and aparrently no plans to get a quality linebacker.

Saints and filling needs.
 

Quite the opposite..They were trying to get Dat, and if Howard doesn\'t net us a LB, The Draft will..

Saints and filling needs.
 

Hey BlackandBlue, just because I haven\'t been here long doesn\'t mean I can\'t read. Gumbo obviously gets messed with alot because of his love of AB and for some of his opinions. Just because I\'m a newbie means I can\'t joke around? Cut me some slack, everybody starts out a rookie.

Saints and filling needs.
 

Whoa, slow down tiger.

All I did was take your post and remove the erroneous information. I never said one word. ;)

Saints and filling needs.
 

:lol:

Saints and filling needs.
 

Haha Gumbo has a fan!

Just teasin\' ya bignic ;)

Saints and filling needs.
 

Erroneous information. Good one.

Saints and filling needs.
 

Man, I take so much heat on here that I really feel sorry for anyone who ever agrees with me.

Go to any other Saints\' board and it\'s not nearly as negative. I\'ve yet to figure that out. ;)

Saints and filling needs.
 

Some boards delete negative threads.

EDIT: And bignic, I\'m just giving you a hard time. Somebody\'s got to break in the new guys around here. I\'m just a bitter old (not as old as Joe, though ;) ) man that has seen way too many losing seasons by my favorite team.

[Edited on 22/3/2005 by BlackandBlue]

Saints and filling needs.
 

Negative threads? Or overly pessimistic doom and gloom diatribes?
Got some links?

Saints and filling needs.
 

If they were deleted, how would I have the links?

Saints and filling needs.
 

:o

[Edited on 22/3/2005 by saintswhodi]

Saints and filling needs.
 

gumbo you take heat cuz you think like the saints organization...brooks can do know wrong and our linebackers don\'t need upgrading....pass..

Saints and filling needs.
 

I was referring to the websites, not the negative posts.

Saints and filling needs.
 

Oh really? So we should be able to get a quality starter in the draft? Hope we have some good scouting and talent evaluation this year.

Saints and filling needs.
 

“Maybe I\'m a sucker, but I\'ve bought into the Haslett plan for this year. I think even if we don\'t pick up anyone else that we have a defense that WILL get us to the playoffs.�

“I posted this thread because a lot of media outlets have implied that our secondary is one of the worst in the league. I don\'t see it like that. I don\'t think they\'re great by any stretch of the imagination, but I don\'t think they are terrible either.�

- Posted to this board in May of 2004. It sounds very familiar to me... same old song.

Saints and filling needs.
 

As much as proving a point is important to me, I\'m going to pass on this one. I\'d be bringing others in on something that they had nothing to do with, and they don\'t need nor deserve the headache.

So since I can\'t point to a particular website, print out my previous post, and use it for toilet paper, cause that\'s about all it\'s worth.

Saints and filling needs.
 

BlackandBlue you\'re a standup guy and you\'ve paid your dues on this site. Alot of you guys have paid your dues and I\'m alittle embarassed that I\'m just now joing the fun. Where have you guys been all this time? Rarely have I been able to have an intelligent conversation in this town about the most important thing in the world, Saints football.

I feel like I\'ve found a home here and overall I\'ve felt very welcome. I\'m sure you guys have seen em come and seen em go. I bet alot of punks came in here and tried to act like they own the site. I bet ya\'ll have seen alot of know it alls come in here and act like they\'re John Clayton or Mel Kiper. I\'m sure ya\'ll have had a few clowns come in here and try to be a funny man and post stupid stuff just to do it. Ya\'ll have probably had a few losers come in here, act like they have a secret inside sources with the Saints and try to start silly rumors.

My point is that I\'m not one of those guys. I don\'t have any sources, all of my info comes from the internet, magazines, or what I\'ve heard from someone reliable. I\'ll tell ya\'ll the facts I know and I\'ll express my opinions on subjects, no more, no less. But I want all of you guys to know that just because I\'m the new guy doesn\'t mean I\'m clueless. Not to toot my own horn but I\'m a bit of a football guru. I win my league\'s fantasy crown every year, I\'ve kept up with the draft like it\'s my religion since \'96, and I\'m a Saints fan till I die. I take the Saints very seriously and I take this site very seriously. Some people may come here and then just fade away, well you better get used to Big Nic, cause I ain\'t goin nowhere!

Saints and filling needs.
 

Personally, I think the saints moves in the offseason would be good for a team that made it past aleast the first round of the playoffs...not an 8-8 team. Don\'t get it twisted, I really like the additions(espiecally Smith), but the Saints are still doing this \"minor improvements will put us over the hump\" year after year. I think this is Hasletts main problem. He believes in his guys, but he needs to be realistic. Plus, he\'s lucky as hell that he\'s still gotta job. You\'d think that would put more of a fire under his ass. But, then again free-agency isn\'t over yet. I might wind up eating these words. But as a loyal fan, i\'d be more than happy to. I pray to god that makes some major moves in the draft, and that the team as a whole will not accept another mediocer season.

Saints and filling needs.
 

agreed..we have a slew of guys that need to fish or cut bait....personally, I\'d like to see allen moved to a backup and hodge and knight gone. Ambrose gone, and then some others...but oh well.

Saints and filling needs.
 

Listen Bill, let\'s put this in perspective, shall we.

Two years ago, for example, our defensive backfield consisted of Sammy Knight, Jay Bellamy, Dale Carter, and Fred Thomas. Did you or did you not tell us all the last two years that Tebucky Jones would be a big upgrade and make up for Knight\'s lack of speed? And didn\'t you tell us that Ambrose, the crafty vet, would help out as a starter or in Nickel? And didn\'t you tell us that Craft would make a difference? And didn\'t you say that you held some hope for Craver to step up?

See, the point is that EVERY YEAR you tell us how THIS YEAR the team really did get better. But if the team is improving EVERY OFFSEASON, why are the results always the same?

Yes, I will agree that our team looks good on paper. But the team always looks good on paper - minus glaring holes at LB and DT. You say give them the benefit of the doubt?!?! Why? They\'ve done nothing in the last four years to earn that benefit. I gave it to them in 2001 and again in 2002. Now they don\'t deserve it. You tell me to let things run their course before I write them off??? Why don\'t you make them prove it for once, instead of believing blindly once again that this year is really the year?

Saints and filling needs.
 

Why not?

This is one of those cases where, the best inference is this:

Team A has made improvements a, b, and c.
Team A was bad at x and y last season.
If a, b, and c, improve one or both of x and y, they should be better this sesason.
Therefore,
Team A will be better this season.

Whether or not that translates into wins (and the playoffs, as we all hope) depends, not on what the FO has done in previous seasons, but on what other teams have done this season relative to us.

My personal opinion is that we\'ve improved very little. A TE, FS, and RT aren\'t the kind of positions that are impact positions.

Sure I think an upgrade at RT actually helped - but I would like to have seen an upgrade at two positions on the OL before I called this offseason a success. We\'ll be better here.

Changing our FS I think will have very little impact unless we change our scheme. It will be hard to change the scheme too much with Brown and Bellamy needing deep protection. If Brown amps it up, then I say we have a major upgrade. McKenzie is a MUCH bigger impact move than Smith.

Finally, an upgrade at TE? Jury is out for me. Last I heard this Schad guy is slated to be our #2. That isn\'t all that exciting.

Re-signing Bryant, Gleason, and Hodge were good moves, especially Bryant. These, however, did not improve the team. I\'ll say one thing: this FO has done a very good job of not letting the team get worse, so there is a reason for optimism - the defense can only get better and we have at least one, albeit not obviously huge, upgrade on the O.

Saints and filling needs.
 

Yes but the Falcons got Hartwell, the Panthers are healthy AND got a starting guard(pro-bowler) and startng CB to add to Ricky Manning and Chris Gamble, and the Buvs have the 5th pick in the draft(which I pray they can\'t afford and have to move down). Everyone around us is getting BETTER, so us not getting worse doesn\'t hold a lot of hope, unless we luck into the Panthers having 14 players including majority regular starters on IR, or Vick getting hurt, or the Bucs #5 pick holding out cause they can\'t pay him, or they have to cut a Simeon Rice cause they can\'t pay him.

Saints and filling needs.
 

I agree.

But.

Those are reasons that have to do with the upcoming year, and not something that happened last year, or the year before that, or even the year before that, or even since the inception of the team.

Saints and filling needs.
 

Oh, I can dig it Kool. But they somewhat do have to do with the past. Vick healthy, we saw what the Falcons were like without him. Panthers, Superbowl one year, most injured team in the league the next and not in the playoffs. Bucs, high draft picks have meant big things to some teams. But I definitely see what you meant. Kudos. :cheers:

Saints and filling needs.
 

Right. :cool:

Saints and filling needs.
 

well said whodat. we are all hopeful and want to be surprised no matter how skeptical. analytical critique is good however. i have said it on other threads and i will again, i like what the vikings have done. a very similar team with one meager playoff showing in the past few years, a coach on the hot seat, and a high flying no defense team. screw mediocrity with the same formula year after year. shake it up and go down with everyone knowing you were pulliing out all the stops to win- not a repeating of the same approach with a little tinkering.

you start fixing problems by going to the #1 issue on the list. in my mind i see a glaring hole right up the gut in how teams ran the ball at will. some have argued that the improvement of the secondary and pass defense will alleviate this. i won\'t debate the point but only say i am not sold. whatever hope there was for sullivan was literally crushed after one weigh in. most all like what has been seen with watson and have hopes for bock too, but their size and inexperience are just facts of life. this linebacking group... makes me ask as someone did, how can a former LB like haz live with this?? mike martz i could imagine LOL.

so yeah, there has been some progress. just not nearly as vital and impacting as needed for a 32-32 team with the publicized most under achieving tag in the league.

Saints and filling needs.
 

J - I\'m all for examining the facts relative to other teams. But even if you want to look forward, you cannot judge improvement without a point of reference. That has to at least start with last season.

IMO, to suggest that all you need to know is where we are and what we\'ve done is a recipe for disaster. You have to know the history and the context to judge those moves. Otherwise, absent wholesale changes or large losses (a la the Titans this season), it would be a rare ocassion to find that the team didn\'t improve in the offseason. When you do that you get Billy, IMO. A person who truly expects this year to be the year that the Saints put it all together every year... but that hasn\'t happened yet has it?

But fine, let\'s examine the Saints only on what they\'ve done this offseason, and no other time. IMO, they haven\'t improved in significant ways that will affect their record in 2005. Going into the offseason I personally feel that the four biggest areas of need were SLB, OT, WLB, DT. They\'ve failed to sign adequate players at 3 of the 4 top positions of need. Likewise, the one that they did address, Tackle, they filled with a Guard. Is that fair? ;)

Saints and filling needs.
 

Who, I\'m on the record as saying this offseason is/was mediocre, so we agree there.

[qutoe]You have to know the history and the context to judge those moves.[/quote:1f3aef38e5] Here, I agree as well. However, context is what is interesting - history is sometimes too much. So, we should look at the last season or so, but there are some people who think that the entire Saints\' history is relevant to every question - they are wrong.

Saints and filling needs.
 

Looking at something 20 years ago and saying it will affect this season is wrong. I agree. Then again, looking at things that happened beyond last season is not, IMO, a bad idea. If you look back 4 years you see the same FO, same coaches, many of the same players, etc. Suggesting that is totally irrelevant is... well, I disagree with that opinion.

Saints and filling needs.
 

Well, I can...NewOrleansSaints.com used to have a Forum...not too long after I got there, they just flat out shut it down...due to an over abundance of negativity, and bad mouthing of the Organization

Go Figure...

Not to think it was somehow my fault...I think that place was headed south before I ever got there..

But I think alot of the problems stemmed from people from other teams, coming in and abusing , and cursing, and racial fights, and all that stuff...

Luckily..This is a bit more just for us kind of place...

It\'s like Cheers...Except noone\'s glad you came...haha

[Edited on 24/3/2005 by shadowdrinker]