There's something about Joe Horn...
 

that many many Saints fans inherently do not like. It's evident in the hostility from yours truly and many people on this board.

So what is it for me?

I don't like what Joe Horn represents. He is the crown jewel of the Haslett regime, his lone piece of evidence that you can get something for nothing in this day and age of free agency....all you have to do is go get it. The thing is, he was discovered by Randy Mueller, who is no longer here. They have the right strategy, just the wrong people enacting it, but I digress.

It still upsets me that Joe talks so much and runs his yap, yet the casual NFL fan still doesn't know him outside of the cell phone incident. They don't know that he was the NFC leading reciever. Being on the Saints right now, I don't think Joe or any of them have the right to talk as if they are big shots. They haven't done anything of importance yet. When you get to an NFC championship, then talk.

I still think a lot of us have the attitude of "Who does this guy think he is?" After all, he would still be toiling over on KC's bench or out of football altogether if the Saints hadn't plucked him from the edge of obscurity. Now he has the nerve to ask for Top 3 salary? Why can't he be grateful that he had a chance at all?? How soon he forgets.

I think all of his antics would be more tolerable if he was from Miami and was highly touted coming out of school. Instead we have a Joe-come-lately who puts up some nice numbers towards the end of his career and looks to break our bank rather than help the TEAM, which he swears he is here to do.

There's something about Joe Horn...
 

That\'s pretty observant. I actually have had no real beef with Joe until he commanded top 5 money and said he would hold out. I would have a beef with ANY player on this team that did that, no matter who it was. But since joe backed off that statement, I am backing off of Joe. Yeah he runs his mouth too much and yeah he is a me first player, but if he is doing at at a reasonable salary and putting up the numbers, I don\'t really care anymore.

The most important point to me was what you said about this team thinking they can pluck a Joe Horn from any mediocre free agent. I thinkt hat statement has been proven more true than almost any. If there is a star out there to be had or an obscure player who may do something and we have a choice, it will be Mr. Obscurity every time. And that is Joe Horn\'s fault. At least this year they got somewhat better players than they have previously targeted, but overall this seems to have been true since we got Joe.

There's something about Joe Horn...
 

Say what you will about Joe running his mouth, but the guy shows up every Sunday. There has never seen a game when Joe slacks off or not doesn\'t give 100%. He loves football and just wants W\'s on the record. I know he can be a pain, but if more guys on this team had his heart we would be consistently going to the playoffs, instead of being stuck at 8-8. As for top 3 money, he doesn\'t deserve that, but his stats put him up there. I know a lot of his yards/catches have to do with the fact we are always playing catch up, but he also also has several 3rd down grabs, which move the chains and further prove his worth. He knows the organization will pay up and I respect the fact that he backed down from his demands to join his TEAM in the off season program. Its a love/hate relationship for Saints fans and Joe, but he is the best player on offense besides Duece.

There's something about Joe Horn...
 

Those things Joe said about being a top 5 receiver and saying he should be paid like a top 5 guy really got me. I\'ve always thought Joe talked too much but that I can deal with. Alot of players run their mouth, if they can back it up then it\'s ok. But for Joe to turn around on the Saints like that after we took a shot on him, made me sick.

Joe is a great player and he deserves a nice contract to end his career on, but not top 2 or 3 money, not at this point. But it seems like Joe and the FO have set aside their differences and almost settled on a reasonable deal. With that, I intend to set aside my venom for Joe and hope he can help us for many years to come.

There's something about Joe Horn...
 

Hey, why don\'t we all give up any harsh feelings we may have for Joe and have one big Joe Horn love fest!!! :iloveyou:

There's something about Joe Horn...
 

Roger that on the salary issue....he HAS backed off of that apparently.

But he still has a problem keeping his mouth shut. I would say that it\'s good to speak your mind, but we being the Saints don\'t have the luxury of having these kind of players and upholding a good image of the team at the same time, like a Philadelphia does. Sure Philadelphia has T.O., but they have McNabb to balance it out. It seems that Horn would be best served to be the one to balance out all of the bad that\'s already on the team, especially since he is one of the \"leaders\". In short, he should use his powers for good instead of evil.

Oh and when he jiggles and dances after every other 1st down or chops his hand.....AAAGHHHH...it\'s a freakin first down!! You\'re supposed to get those!

There's something about Joe Horn...
 

Overblown, this is. Speaking like Yoda, I am.

I can\'t count all the times last year where we were together with friends watching the game, and when the opportunity arose (Horn catching a first down pass), we all yelled at the TV, \"Hollywood, what down is it?\", only to see him let the ball drop to the ground after the play was whistled down, with nothing more than a shrug of the shoulders, and an adjustment of the pads.

But we as a society are trained to focus and blow out of proportion the bad, and shrug our shoulders at the good.

There's something about Joe Horn...
 

So what you\'re saying is that you EXPECTED IT?!

Relax BlackandBlue, that is a minor complaint and I don\'t really consider it a problem. I just have to hear it from the color commentary whenever he does it.

I want Joe on the team, appreciate him, and the like. If he would just use his powers for good more often, I think the team would follow his lead.

There's something about Joe Horn...
 

I stopped reading at this point. Aaron Brooks is the \"crown jewel\" of the Haslett Regime.

I did read BnB\'s post and agree. I doubt Joe acts out DURING THE GAME any more than any other WR in the top half or two thirds of the league. Right, b/c TO and Randy Moss are class acts. Chad Johnson - now there\'s a guy who can control his mouth. Whatever.

One other thing. Take the cell phone incident away, and what has Joe Horn ever done that you consider to be so bad? He dances when he scores. Uh oh - better cut him... along with half of the league.

There's something about Joe Horn...
 

Bottom Line.....i think the FO should keep their word and give the man about a 4 yr deal so he can retire a Saint

There's something about Joe Horn...
 

Well here is a difference in the opinion on Aaron Brooks, which everything gets boiled down to.

AB a crown jewel??? Why would he be considered something to be proud of?? What has he done in his 4 1/2 years playing for the Saints that is noteworthy? Any Pro Bowls...NOPE. Maybe YOU think he is a crown jewel, but I don\'t. I don\'t see him having done anything that any other QB in the league couldn\'t have done in his place. I think he is the \"golden child\", in that he seems to have some sort of weird immunity and never has to bear any consequences for anything that he does on the field.

Now back to Horn....if you HAD continued to read my post you would see why I considered Horn to be the crown jewel, before you totally dismissed what I said. You would also see that Brooks in no way can fill that title of \"crown jewel\".

[Edited on 24/3/2005 by GoldenTomb]

There's something about Joe Horn...
 

My thoughts on Joe.

He is a me-me player that gives it his all. I want to punch his lights out at times because of all the stupid silly stunts (IMHO) and his yapping about the fans and the city and teammates and coaches.

But if all 53 of our players gave the same effort on Sundays that Joe does we damm sure wouldn\'t have finished 8-8.

There's something about Joe Horn...
 

There\'s something about Joe Horn that I love. He talks **** and backs it big time. He takes a sticking and keeps on ticking. The man just flat out gives it his all and produces every play and game. He was the spark in the Saints offense this year.

There's something about Joe Horn...
 

Cell phone incident aside...Joe has been the one CONSTANT on this team.....He scores when needed and \"clowns\" so ********n what.....I think a lot of this sentiment is projected by folks who have never played the game...
When in battle you have emotions that sometimes leak out differently for each athlete. Joe is a loud, over-the-top kind of guy...why wouldn\'t he play the same way he lives?
Stop sweatin\' Joe about his statements..he moved on with it so should we....he did report to camp...right?
whiners. :P

There's something about Joe Horn...
 

Yeah, so he makes our special teams unit start 15 yards further back.
So f***ing what!

So he puts our defense in an unnecessary hole.
So f***ing what!

So he fires up the other team with his mouth.
So f***ing what!

So he blasts the Saints fans.
So f***ing what!

So he blasts his own coaches.
So f***ing what!

So he blasts the city.
So f***ing what!

Yeah... whiners! Get over it!

There\'s a lot who HAVE played the game (for NO money), and are still embarrassed and angered by some of his antics. But thats irrelevant.

There are many who have never been rock stars, but it doesn\'t mean they should tolerate some idiot pissin on a crowd of fans.



[Edited on 25/3/2005 by Danno]

There's something about Joe Horn...
 

Well....mainly my complaints about his attitude were secondary complaints, but yes his attitude can be detrimental to the team.

I just think that our team needs as little negative exposure as possible. We don\'t have that luxury. I guess I\'m not so quick to forgive someone that goes on ESPN and so readily talked crap about the city and fans of the team that took a chance on him in the first place.

I also don\'t see how you can call yourself \"being there for the team\" or whatever but then you demand a top 5 contract. Yeah he backed off of it, but he had the audacity to say it in the first place.

How soon people forget him talking about they should move the team to somewhere else, because of the fans??? Yeah I boo a lot when I go to the Dome, but I bought the ticket and I\'m entitled to do so. Based on the teams\' performance, we are entitled(and expected) to boo him and the team. Fans are the customers of the NFL, and we can do(within reason)whatever we want. Why is it so hard for him(and others) to just shut up and play, especially when they are getting paid millions of dollars to do so???


This behavior shouldn\'t be acceptable to a team that\'s losing, especially coming from one of its so-called \"leaders\".

I\'m not saying cut the guy...but I don\'t have to be happy about how he hurts the team. I\'m not willing to give him a pass just because he is our best offensive player. Many people on here would just look the other way though. No player is above the team or bigger than the team. It seems like every once in a while he forgets that.

[Edited on 25/3/2005 by GoldenTomb]

There's something about Joe Horn...
 

Danno - I gotta call you to the carpet my man. You and I haven\'t had one of these in a while, but away we go.

Other than the cell phone incident - please name 3 times. ONE ridiculous incident has been twisted and skewed to suggest that Horn is a CONSTANT problem. That just isn\'t the case. He dance. He celebrates, but he rarely gets flagged for it. But hey - let\'s keep it simple. You can even go do research on the web. Name 3 times.

Unsubstantiated comment that is based on imaginary facts outside of a single incident. See above.

So what? It\'s the NFL. Do you honestly think these guys need reason to get excited for a game? Horn has stated that he doesn\'t talk much on the field. If you watch the games, you\'ll see that\'s fairly true. Does he talk during the week? Sure - about what? Himself. He doesn\'t talk about how much opposing secondaries suck - not anymore than your average \"top 5, 7, 10-12, 15\" or whatever other number WRs. But, I\'m sure that you can back this up. Go do your research and come back with 3 times that Horn\'s comments made the media BEFORE a game that were inflammatory.

He should. He gives them 4 Pro Bowls in 5 years and they suggest he be shown the door. This is totally irrelevant to me. So what?

Yeah, well they suck. And this isn\'t really accurate. He has only blasted Haslett that I\'ve seen. He has always been supportive of his position coaches (which is WHY he blasted Haslett last year).

Irrelevant. Because the guy plays on a team in the City he has a responsibility to say only good things about it? Whatever - I guess this makes him a bad football player.

My sentiments exactly.

[Edited on 25/3/2005 by WhoDat]

There's something about Joe Horn...
 

WhoDat, you never fail to amze me. You hold EVERY single thing Brooks has EVER said and done against him but yet you let Joe Horn slide because you like the guy.

FACT: Joe Horn said the fans of the Saints need to shut-up about the losing or the team needed to ride out of town. This had nothing to do with Joe\'s performance, but rather the TEAMS perfromance.

Hey, folks .. You think ol\' WhoDat would defend Brooks if he had said this? Does Joe get a free pass for everything because he goes to the probowl?

FACT: Joe Horn has been fined the most in the HISTORY of the NFL for excessive celebration after a TD. Horn said he promised he would call his kids and he was just keeping his word. What an idiot. Wonder if ol\' WhoDat would let Brooks\' slide if he called his wife during the game? On the field ... no less!!

FACT: Joe Horn said that he didn\'t want to return to the Saints becasue Haslett fired his receiveing coach. Then went on to blast Haslett in the meidia for firing his receiveing coach.

FACT: Joe Horn said it wasn\'t Haslett\'s fault for the team not going to the playoffs. Joe then went on to say that he was one of the top 2 receivers in the NFL and that the rest of the team was responsible for not making the playoffs and not the coaches.

I report .... YOU decide?

There's something about Joe Horn...
 

... I know that athletes live in a completely different world than ours, and analogies between their world and ours usually don\'t hold water...
..yet...
..have any of you ever negociated a salary?
\"well, sir, I am a good engineer, but I don\'t think I am as good as the other engineers... I\'ll take less money for the same job\"...

.. I don\'t see anything wrong with Joe trying to get as much cash as he can... and if he can get it, God bless him...

..another thing that I find amusing, is why people expect ball players to immediately love the city they play in... it\'s not like he was born in LA.

... I never understood why athletes and politicians are held to a higher standard than everyone else...

There's something about Joe Horn...
 

Yeah, God bless Joe for trying to get more money. I don\'t blame him.

It\'s just funny how some of the members here say that character is the most important thing for a player and bash some players for not displaying that character, then they defend Joe Horn, who IMO, has shown he doesn\'t have much character. And he certainly doesn\'t have any class.

Seems to me that some folks are hypicrites.

There's something about Joe Horn...
 

Or in the case of Sullivan, HIPPOcrites. ;)

There's something about Joe Horn...
 

WOW! Is this true? I had no idea. I thought it was just the cell phone thing, and the machine gun thingy.
No one else has been fined more than twice? ;)

There's something about Joe Horn...
 

What I mean is that Joe was fined more for that ONE celebration than anyone else. I forgot about the machine guy thing, though. :o

There's something about Joe Horn...
 

Character is a completely different beast ...

BTW, the only reason Joe was fined for the phone incident, is because the cell phone company does not have a contract with the NFL, and the action underminded advertizing contracts..

.. Owens may not have been fined as much for the Sharpie insident, but that\'s because Sharpie is the marker that coaches use, and you see Sharpies during game telecasts...

There's something about Joe Horn...
 

LOL - so like I said, show me some of those FACTS you keep peddling BESIDES the cell phone thing.

So Joe Horn\'s comments hurt the team? You brought AB into this so, let\'s take a look see, shall we?

Joe Horn\'s comments were directed at the FANS. Who cares? How does that hurt the team?

Aaron Brooks\' comments were directed at HIS TEAMMATES and an upcoming OPPONENT. Think that hurt the team?

Want common sense proof? Brooks said it himself. There\'s \"fake love\" on the team. His teammates don\'t like him.

What\'s more telling is this:

- You can\'t argue that Joe Horn is consistent and delivers at a much higher than average level week in and week out year after year.

- You CAN argue that AB is inconsistent and doesn\'t live up to expectations.

- You can\'t argue that Horn\'s numbers put him in the top 5 of ALL WRs over the last 5 years or that he hasn\'t gone to 4 of the last 5 Pro Bowls.

- You CAN argue that AB IS NOT TOP 5 in ANY WAY, and he hasn\'t gone to a Pro Bowl.

- You can\'t argue that Horn isn\'t being paid top 5 money

- You CAN argue that BROOKS got a top 5 money contract.


So your argument then becomes that he celebrates a lot and that hurts the team, or that he says things in the media that you don\'t like. Wow. Convincing argument. Meanwhile, you STILL HAVEN\'T shown THREE EXAMPLES besides the cell phone incident to suggest that he in FACT gets penalized often. PS - did we win that game in which he got fined for the cell phone thing? Your FACTS don\'t come close to supporting your conclusion Billy. But that\'s nothing new.

There's something about Joe Horn...
 

WhoDat --

Brooks NEVER got a top 5 contract. NEVER. Why oh why do you make statements like that? Proof? I know you don\'t have any proof. It was NEVER a top 5 contract.

Excuses Excuses Excuses .. that\'s all WhoDat ever makes for Joe Horn.

Joe called his teammates out, WhoDat. Said he was one of the top 2 receivers in the NFL and that his teammates were responsible for not making the playoffs. Said it had nothing to do with the coaches.

Your aguement is getting a little ridiculous and I might have to polorize it because it\'s little use in sticking to the facts when you don\'t.

How much has AB\'s contract hurt this team? NONE. What\'s your point? See how that works?





[Edited on 25/3/2005 by GumboBC]

There's something about Joe Horn...
 

Joe Horn said WE, Aaron Brooks said THEY. Get the difference?

His play certainly has. See, maybe that\'s the part you don\'t get - the part where they actually play the game.

There's something about Joe Horn...
 

Just to be clear:

1. WhoDat says Brooks got a top 5 contract. But he shows no proof and NEVER has. Proof? NONE provided. Just like his statement that Benson wanted to be \"hands-on\". Benson never said that and Brooks never got a top 5 contact.

2. Horn did NOT say WE. He said it was the players fault and not Hasletts. Joe went on to say he was the best receiver in the NFL. Certainly it couldn\'t be the best receiver in the NFL that\'s keeping the Saints out of the playoffs.

Let\'s stick to the facts. I know that\'s hard for you to do, but let\'s try any way?

[Edited on 25/3/2005 by GumboBC]

There's something about Joe Horn...
 

WhoDat -- hre\'s Brooks\' yearly salary. This isn\'t including signing bonuses, but if you want to include them, I\'m sure that makes Brooks\' contact look even better.


Aaron Brooks yearly salary:
2003- $7.5 million
2004 – $3.25 million
2005 – $5.5 million
2006 – $6.25 million
2007 – $7.25 million

There's something about Joe Horn...
 

Where do you guys get the salary info? I\'ve been looking all over for it.

There's something about Joe Horn...
 

I did a google seach and came across an article that listed Brooks\' yearly salary. But no one else. It was just talking about Brooks.

Sorry.

There's something about Joe Horn...
 

No worries. I doubt the NFL would condone a posting of all their players\' sallaries anyway. Too bad, it would make cap calculations easier for us fans.

There's something about Joe Horn...
 

The guy does nothing but back up what he says. As far as the fans thing, i never heard him say anything that was totally wrong about the fans. I mean when you boo brooks before the game even starts thats downright retarded. Anyhow the guy is 30 some years old and is the best wr the Saints ever had.