Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats

GumboBC · 03-24-2005, 01:18 PM

Okay, just to put this in some kind of context, here are all the \"catches\" for the Saints\' offense. Granted, it\'s not \"passes thrown\" to but it does give you an idea of how much the ball was distributed.

Couple of points:
1. Boo Williams had as many catches as our 3rd receiver.
2. Deuce had as many catches as our 3rd receiver.
3. Aaron Stecker had as many catches as our 3rd receiver.

To me this suggests that our QB spread the ball out pretty welll. I don\'t think it can be argued other wise.

Joe Horn 94
Donte\' Stallworth 58
Jerome Pathon 34
Boo Williams 33
Deuce McAllister 34
Aaron Stecker 29
Michael Lewis 8
Ernie Conwell 10
Mike Karney 6
Talman Gardner 1
Lamont Hall 1

bignic26 · 03-24-2005, 01:42 PM

Yea Shadow I see what you mean. Stats are good for something after all, arguing. I can\'t wait for the draft man. I can\'t wait to see everbody\'s reaction to our bonehead picks.

bignic26 · 03-24-2005, 01:45 PM

Oh yeah, I like your new quote. Sounds like something I would say! :nutz:

shadowdrinker · 03-24-2005, 01:47 PM

I\'m going to delete it...It was a classless move on my part to have it to begin with...I knew what you meant..

Saint_LB · 03-24-2005, 02:05 PM

If the ball isn\'t going to the 3rd receiver or whoever, it\'s gotta be going to SOMONE. Who do you suppose that is?

An offensive lineman 20 yards behind him? Maybe the defense?

yasoon · 03-24-2005, 02:35 PM

OK, I probably don\'t agree with WHY gumbo is making this point, but that doesn\'t mean I can\'t see what he\'s saying.

The argument \"AB locks in on Horn\" is something whodi and I agree on. Having said that, Gumbo showed that Horn\'s percentage of balls thrown to isn\'t really out of whack with the rest of the league. I admit, this percentage surprised me a bit.

I think what gumbo is saying is that if the argument is AB locks in on Horn, the stats he posted are relevant. AB threw to horn x percent of the time compared to the percent other QBs threw to their number ones. For that discussion, you can lock in on this one number.
The numbers whodi is posting are more how well/evenly AB distributes the ball among all of his receivers, not so much how he locks in on Horn. For total pass distribution, you break down all the receivers (as whodi did) and see what the variance is for the #2,#3,#4,TE, and RB.

Again, I usually disagree with gumbo, but in this case, it\'s not where the other 70% of the balls go to, it\'s how much AB throws to Joe. I still think he locks in on Horn, regardless of what the numbers say

Can you get a percentage of balls thrown in to triple coverage?

saintswhodi · 03-24-2005, 02:40 PM

Joe Horn 94
Donte\' Stallworth 58
Jerome Pathon 34
Boo Williams 33
Deuce McAllister 34
Aaron Stecker 29
Michael Lewis 8
Ernie Conwell 10
Mike Karney 6
Talman Gardner 1
Lamont Hall 1

Marvin Harrison 86
Reggie Wayne 77
Brandon Stokley 68
Dallas Clark 25
Marcus Pollard 29
Edge James 51
Dominic Rhodes 2
James Mungro 7
Brad Pyatt 2
Ben Hartsock 4
Aaron Moorehead 1
Troy Walters 1

What\'s your point?

Torry Holt 94
Isaac Bruce 89
Shaun Mcdonald 37
Kevin Curtis 32
Marshall Faulk 50(not even starting last part of the year)
Mike furrey 1
Joey Goodspeed 11
Arlen Harris 4
Steven Jackson 19
Dane Looker 13

Again so what\'s your point? Bulger and Manning spread it around more than Brooks. And don\'t give me any Peyton and this magical season crap after this statement made by you:

It seems to me that Brooks is \"spreading\" the ball around to more players on the offense than Peyton Manning or Mark Bulger.

Wrong yet again.

GumboBC · 03-24-2005, 02:50 PM

My reason for starting this thread was to prove that Joe Horn\'s stats weren\'t inflated due to Brooks locking on to Joe Horn. That has been proven and NOTHING can change the FACTS.

Now, saintwhodi, in an attempt to prove whatever it is he\'s trying to prove wants to talk about how many times Brooks throws to the 2nd and 3rd receivers.

What does this have to do with Brooks locking on to Horn? NOTHING !!!

But, for the record, Brooks threw the ball to Stallworth over 100-times.

It\'s true that Brooks didn\'t throw to Pathon as much as some other QBs threw to thier 3rd receiver. But they are called 3rd receivers becasue that\'s the QBs 3rd option.

Brooks hardly had time to find his first receiver due to the terrible blocking by the offensive line. That\'s something saintwhodi will never admit to, but I\'m sure any knowledgeable Saints\' fans knows it true.

Stats CAN be misleading. But, I\'m not trying to mislead anyone (unlike some) I\'m just giving you guys the cold hard facts.

The % of Brooks\' passes thrown Joe Horn\'s way cannnot be disputed. Facts are facts and that\'s all I\'ve given everyone...

saintswhodi · 03-24-2005, 03:07 PM

My reason for starting this thread was to prove that Joe Horn\'s stats weren\'t inflated due to Brooks locking on to Joe Horn. That has been proven and NOTHING can change the FACTS

How did you prove that, by saying other QBs lock on to their number ones? How doe sthat prove that AB doesn\'t? Open mouth, insert foot.

Now, saintwhodi, in an attempt to prove whatever it is he\'s trying to prove wants to talk about how many times Brooks throws to the 2nd and 3rd receivers.

What does this have to do with Brooks locking on to Horn? NOTHING !!!

Holy crap. That might be the dumbest thing I have ever heard. If he locks onto Horn, that means there will be a disparate margin between balls thrown to Horn and balls thrown to other receivers. Are you seriously this thick? I used other QBs like Peyton and Bulger to show how they distribute the ball evenly, even though their top guys still get a lot of balls thrown their way. I can;t believe you just said that. Priceless.

Brooks hardly had time to find his first receiver due to the terrible blocking by the offensive line. That\'s something saintwhodi will never admit to, but I\'m sure any knowledgeable Saints\' fans knows it true.

I already killed you on this in ANOTHER discussion with Bulger, so trying to throw it out there cause the new guys prob didn\'t see it is weak. Bulger faced more pressure and the Rams gave up more sacks than us, easily. But of course you wouldn\'t try to mislead anyone. ROFLMAO!!

The % of Brooks\' passes thrown Joe Horn\'s way cannnot be disputed. Facts are facts and that\'s all I\'ve given everyone...

No they can\'t, and they show he locks on to Horn. Thanks.

GumboBC · 03-24-2005, 03:18 PM

saintwhodi --

Even though I\'ve proven that Brooks only throws the ball to Joe Horn 28.2% of the time ... you still can\'t admit the truth. Don\'t you think everyone sees the facts?

Then to make yourself look even worse, you REFUSE to admit that our offensive line was terrible at pass blocking last year.

How bad does the offesive line have to play before you admit it?

I just don\'t get you, dude. Why is admitting the offensive line played terrible so hard for you to do?

Why do you keep saying Brooks locks on to Horn when the facts are staring you right in the face?

I feel like I\'m talking to a brick wall.

All I ask is for everyone to look at the facts both saintwhodi and myself have posted and judge for yourself.

03-24-2005, 01:18 PM	#41
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats Okay, just to put this in some kind of context, here are all the \"catches\" for the Saints\' offense. Granted, it\'s not \"passes thrown\" to but it does give you an idea of how much the ball was distributed. Couple of points: 1. Boo Williams had as many catches as our 3rd receiver. 2. Deuce had as many catches as our 3rd receiver. 3. Aaron Stecker had as many catches as our 3rd receiver. To me this suggests that our QB spread the ball out pretty welll. I don\'t think it can be argued other wise. Joe Horn 94 Donte\' Stallworth 58 Jerome Pathon 34 Boo Williams 33 Deuce McAllister 34 Aaron Stecker 29 Michael Lewis 8 Ernie Conwell 10 Mike Karney 6 Talman Gardner 1 Lamont Hall 1
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

03-24-2005, 01:42 PM	#42
bignic26 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 122	Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats Yea Shadow I see what you mean. Stats are good for something after all, arguing. I can\'t wait for the draft man. I can\'t wait to see everbody\'s reaction to our bonehead picks.
bignic26 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 122

03-24-2005, 01:45 PM	#43
bignic26 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 122	Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats Oh yeah, I like your new quote. Sounds like something I would say! :nutz:
bignic26 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 122

03-24-2005, 01:47 PM	#44
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517	Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats I\'m going to delete it...It was a classless move on my part to have it to begin with...I knew what you meant..
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517

03-24-2005, 02:05 PM	#45
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894	Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats If the ball isn\'t going to the 3rd receiver or whoever, it\'s gotta be going to SOMONE. Who do you suppose that is? An offensive lineman 20 yards behind him? Maybe the defense?
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894

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03-24-2005, 02:35 PM	#46
yasoon 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 594	Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats OK, I probably don\'t agree with WHY gumbo is making this point, but that doesn\'t mean I can\'t see what he\'s saying. The argument \"AB locks in on Horn\" is something whodi and I agree on. Having said that, Gumbo showed that Horn\'s percentage of balls thrown to isn\'t really out of whack with the rest of the league. I admit, this percentage surprised me a bit. I think what gumbo is saying is that if the argument is AB locks in on Horn, the stats he posted are relevant. AB threw to horn x percent of the time compared to the percent other QBs threw to their number ones. For that discussion, you can lock in on this one number. The numbers whodi is posting are more how well/evenly AB distributes the ball among all of his receivers, not so much how he locks in on Horn. For total pass distribution, you break down all the receivers (as whodi did) and see what the variance is for the #2,#3,#4,TE, and RB. Again, I usually disagree with gumbo, but in this case, it\'s not where the other 70% of the balls go to, it\'s how much AB throws to Joe. I still think he locks in on Horn, regardless of what the numbers say Can you get a percentage of balls thrown in to triple coverage?
yasoon 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 594

03-24-2005, 02:40 PM	#47
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats Joe Horn 94 Donte\' Stallworth 58 Jerome Pathon 34 Boo Williams 33 Deuce McAllister 34 Aaron Stecker 29 Michael Lewis 8 Ernie Conwell 10 Mike Karney 6 Talman Gardner 1 Lamont Hall 1 Marvin Harrison 86 Reggie Wayne 77 Brandon Stokley 68 Dallas Clark 25 Marcus Pollard 29 Edge James 51 Dominic Rhodes 2 James Mungro 7 Brad Pyatt 2 Ben Hartsock 4 Aaron Moorehead 1 Troy Walters 1 What\'s your point? Torry Holt 94 Isaac Bruce 89 Shaun Mcdonald 37 Kevin Curtis 32 Marshall Faulk 50(not even starting last part of the year) Mike furrey 1 Joey Goodspeed 11 Arlen Harris 4 Steven Jackson 19 Dane Looker 13 Again so what\'s your point? Bulger and Manning spread it around more than Brooks. And don\'t give me any Peyton and this magical season crap after this statement made by you: It seems to me that Brooks is \"spreading\" the ball around to more players on the offense than Peyton Manning or Mark Bulger. Wrong yet again.

03-24-2005, 02:50 PM	#48
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats My reason for starting this thread was to prove that Joe Horn\'s stats weren\'t inflated due to Brooks locking on to Joe Horn. That has been proven and NOTHING can change the FACTS. Now, saintwhodi, in an attempt to prove whatever it is he\'s trying to prove wants to talk about how many times Brooks throws to the 2nd and 3rd receivers. What does this have to do with Brooks locking on to Horn? NOTHING !!! But, for the record, Brooks threw the ball to Stallworth over 100-times. It\'s true that Brooks didn\'t throw to Pathon as much as some other QBs threw to thier 3rd receiver. But they are called 3rd receivers becasue that\'s the QBs 3rd option. Brooks hardly had time to find his first receiver due to the terrible blocking by the offensive line. That\'s something saintwhodi will never admit to, but I\'m sure any knowledgeable Saints\' fans knows it true. Stats CAN be misleading. But, I\'m not trying to mislead anyone (unlike some) I\'m just giving you guys the cold hard facts. The % of Brooks\' passes thrown Joe Horn\'s way cannnot be disputed. Facts are facts and that\'s all I\'ve given everyone...
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

03-24-2005, 03:07 PM	#49
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats My reason for starting this thread was to prove that Joe Horn\'s stats weren\'t inflated due to Brooks locking on to Joe Horn. That has been proven and NOTHING can change the FACTS How did you prove that, by saying other QBs lock on to their number ones? How doe sthat prove that AB doesn\'t? Open mouth, insert foot. Now, saintwhodi, in an attempt to prove whatever it is he\'s trying to prove wants to talk about how many times Brooks throws to the 2nd and 3rd receivers. What does this have to do with Brooks locking on to Horn? NOTHING !!! Holy crap. That might be the dumbest thing I have ever heard. If he locks onto Horn, that means there will be a disparate margin between balls thrown to Horn and balls thrown to other receivers. Are you seriously this thick? I used other QBs like Peyton and Bulger to show how they distribute the ball evenly, even though their top guys still get a lot of balls thrown their way. I can;t believe you just said that. Priceless. Brooks hardly had time to find his first receiver due to the terrible blocking by the offensive line. That\'s something saintwhodi will never admit to, but I\'m sure any knowledgeable Saints\' fans knows it true. I already killed you on this in ANOTHER discussion with Bulger, so trying to throw it out there cause the new guys prob didn\'t see it is weak. Bulger faced more pressure and the Rams gave up more sacks than us, easily. But of course you wouldn\'t try to mislead anyone. ROFLMAO!! The % of Brooks\' passes thrown Joe Horn\'s way cannnot be disputed. Facts are facts and that\'s all I\'ve given everyone... No they can\'t, and they show he locks on to Horn. Thanks.

03-24-2005, 03:18 PM	#50
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats saintwhodi -- Even though I\'ve proven that Brooks only throws the ball to Joe Horn 28.2% of the time ... you still can\'t admit the truth. Don\'t you think everyone sees the facts? Then to make yourself look even worse, you REFUSE to admit that our offensive line was terrible at pass blocking last year. How bad does the offesive line have to play before you admit it? I just don\'t get you, dude. Why is admitting the offensive line played terrible so hard for you to do? Why do you keep saying Brooks locks on to Horn when the facts are staring you right in the face? I feel like I\'m talking to a brick wall. All I ask is for everyone to look at the facts both saintwhodi and myself have posted and judge for yourself.
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616