Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats
 

Brooks passes attempted: 542
Joe Horn passes thrown to: 153
Results: 28.2% of Brooks passes were thrown to Horn.

Mark Bulger passes attempted: 485
Issac Bruce passes thrown to: 148
Results: 30.5% of Bulger's passes were thrown to Bruce.

Jake Delhomme passes attempted: 533
Mushin Muhammed passes thrown to: 160
Results: 30.0% of Delhomme's passes were thrown to Mushin.

Matt Hasselbeck passes attempted: 474
Darrell Jackson passes thrown to: 156
Results: 32.9% of Hasselbecks passes were thrown to Jackson.

Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats
 

Well I guess that ends that debate.

Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats
 

You still don\'t get it do you. I can\'t believe you wasted our time with another thread. The passing is not in relation to how much AB throws to Joe as opposed to others throwing to their number ones, it\'s in relation to how much AB throws to Joe, then Donte, then Jerome as compared to how much other QBs throw to their 1s, 2s and 3s. Jeez man, you never cease to amaze me. This has gone from bad to worse. I will give you an easy one, Get the precentage for Peyton\'s passes to Harrison, then Wayne then Stokley, and compare it to AB throwing to Joe, then Donte, then Jerome. I mean after all, I already gave you the right stats to look up. ;)

Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats
 

No, saintwhodi, YOU said Brooks LOCKS onto Joe Horn. Please tell me you didn\'t say that? Oh, PLEASE tell me you didn\'t say it?!

Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats
 

Hey Gumbo...nice math though. I thought you had won this one, but whodi is right. What you need is a ratio formula. :)

I think whodi is saying when it comes to AB throwing the ball, that the gap in attempt percentage from #1 WR to #2 is rather large.

[Edited on 24/3/2005 by GoldenTomb]

Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats
 

Brooks passes attempted: 542
Joe Horn passes thrown to: 153
Results: 28.2% of Brooks passes were thrown to Horn.

Mark Bulger passes attempted: 485
Issac Bruce passes thrown to: 148
Results: 30.5% of Bulger\'s passes were thrown to Bruce.

Jake Delhomme passes attempted: 533
Mushin Muhammed passes thrown to: 160
Results: 30.0% of Delhomme\'s passes were thrown to Mushin.

Matt Hasselbeck passes attempted: 474
Darrell Jackson passes thrown to: 156
Results: 32.9% of Hasselbecks passes were thrown to Jackson.

Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats
 

Oh my God, do you have a mental block. YES I SAID THAT. That means HE LOOKS FOR JOE HORN MORE THAN HIS OTHER RECEIVERS. Hello. I seriously can not believe you are having this much trouble with your own \"facts.\" Let me make this easy as I did Peyton and his receivers verse Ab and his. And this is taking into consideration Peyton nor AB are rookies, and neither are throwing to rookies so it is as even as it can possibly be when talking about Peyton and AB.

Peyton throws to:

Harrison= 28% of the time
Wayne= 23% of the time
Stokley= 20.5% of the time

AB throws to:

Joe= 28.2% of the time
Donte= 19.5% of the time
Pathon= 12.3% of the time

Are your eyes open now? ALL Peyton\'s receivers get over 20% of the balls their way, There is SERIOUS drop off from AB throwing to Joe then to Donte, then way down to Jerome. Do you get it now? And don\'t come with these teams with rookie QBs and receivers who sat out and all that foolishness. If you wanna make it close to fair as possible, make it fair.

Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats
 

GT he still doesn\'t get it. This is truly perplexing. I am really at a loss for words as to how Gumbo can be this off on something he wants to prove. I am like this :o . I KNOW he is not a dumb guy, but he is so far off base on trying to prove somethign he said is right that I am utterly at a loss.

[Edited on 24/3/2005 by saintswhodi]

Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats
 

saintwhodi --

Do you think people are stupid here? Seriously? Why just use Peyton? Let\'s use 5 QBs to get a true picture. I\'ll be right back to discredit your \"stuff\" (for lack of a better term) in just a sec.

Be prepared.... :o

Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats
 

As long as you remember this:

I really don\'t care. I\'ll even spot you Delhomme, but when his number one receiver got hurt, oh my gosh they had a rookie starting at the other receiver so that isn\'t fair either. BOO-YAH!!!!

No, obviously not PEOPLE........................... :P

Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats
 

Here\'s a bit of a spoiler....

I\'m quite sure that Eli Manning threw darn near 50 percent(or something wild like that) of his passes to Jeremy Shockey.

The next guy after Shockey probably had like 10 percent. But Manning is a rookie and Brooks is a top 5 QB. ;)

Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats
 

Hey GT, this is what Gumbo said in the other thread:

Already proved that wrong, no? ;) Unless somehow Gumbo sees Peyton distributing the ball and AB distributing the ball as somehow remotely close to one another.

Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats
 

saintwhodi --

Your site doesn\'t list \"passes thrown to\" for all of Peyton\'s receivers. Care to tell me where you got your info. from? Seems faulty to me?

Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats
 

LOL....Whodi\'s reaction to Gumbo telling him that he was the one who brought up the Brooks locking on to Horn deal, was just priceless. I can\'t believe Gumbo tried to turn that around like that!!!! That was great. :rollinglaugh:

Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats
 

So I guess this means then that despite other WRs getting MORE attention than Joe in their offenses, Joe still produces at the same level as they do. Make Joe look even more like a top 5 guy. Thanks Billy. LOL :)

Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats
 

Gumbo, just give it up dude. You been bested twice on the same subject in less than an hour. I went to the same stat site that allowed you to find some other information you faultily used, when you found your own info was woefully inept at even attempting to trying to prove your point. I also said it was about 1, 2 and 3 receivers, so who else are you looking for? I don\'t even know who the Colts\' 4th receiver is. But just like you to try to use irrelevant stats to boost a faulty claim. Man, move on. You were wrong in the other thread, made ANOTHER thread, and are wrong again. I have exceeded my comedy quotient for the day off of that. :rollinglaugh:

But just to help you out, you can either search under receivers, which will beingup all of them in the NFL, or search under the team, which will bring up all their players. But whatever.

[Edited on 24/3/2005 by saintswhodi]

Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats
 

Ummm not necessarily. Is Joe better than Bruce, Muhammad and Jackson, absolutely. We\'d have to see more stats to determine true \"top 5 status\". And even then it\'s all subject to different CONTEXT interpretation. ;)

Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats
 

Um, Who, hate to break it to you but Isaac Bruce and Darrell Jackson are not top 5 receivers. Those are the guys Billy used here. Whoops. So since Joe is in those guys category according to your statement, he is DEFINITELY not top 5. Nice. Harrison gets less balls thrown his way than Joe, but puts up more TDs. Hhhhmmm.........

Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats
 

saintwhodi --

It appears to me that you posted bad info on the Colts\' receivers to make you look right. I asked for your source. Until you give that source I would ask everyone to not pay any attention to your stats.

I looked at your source and they don\'t show the \"passes thrown to\" any of the Colts\' receivers besides Harrison.

Care to explain?

Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats
 

Dude, I am flat out right now calling you a liar. Right here and now. Go into the other thread and I posted the links to stats for all of them. So in case you missed it, I am calling you a bold faced LIAR. Dispute that.

Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats
 

I\'m not calling you a liar, saintwhodi. I looked at those links and it didn\'t show \"passes thrown to\" for all receivers. Just the top 20 receivers in the NFL.

Link?

Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats
 

Just to show you are evn more a liar, here is Wayne\'s stats from the other thread. Targets is at the bottom, just like Harrison, just like Stokley, just like Horn.

http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/...5477&Submit=Go

Care to explain yourself?

Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats
 

And just for Who, Reggie Wayne had more TDs than Joe and just 160 something less yards on 17 FEWER catches. I guess that makes Wayne top 5 too. ;)

Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats
 

He was pretty damn close last season - yes. Do you disagree?

Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats
 

Yes I do disagree. Reggie Wayne is not a top 5 receiver. Although I do wish we would trade Joe for him, younger, faster, stronger, and will put up about the same if not better stats. But we gotta get AB to get tunnel vision with him to do that though............ ;)

Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats
 

saintwhodi --

Here\'s the bottom line ...

Brooks only threw the ball to Joe Horn 28.2% of the time.
Manning threw the ball to Marvin Harrison 28.0% of the time.

Where did Brooks throw the ball too the other 71.8% of the time?

Maybe Brooks threw the ball to to Deuce more than Peyton did to his RB. Maybe Brooks threw the ball to the TE more than Peyton threw to his TE.

One think is FOR SURE, though .. Brooks spread the ball about just as much as Peyton Manning did.

78.2% of Brooks passes went to someone other than Horn.
78.0% of Petyon\'s passes went to someone other than Harrison.

Your orginal point was that Brooks \"has tunnel vision\" for Horn.

That\'s been proven incorrect. And it\'s been proven that Brooks distributes the ball as much as Petyon Manning. Whether that be to his number 2 or 3 receivers or a TE, FB, RB, or whatever.

I rest my case.

[Edited on 24/3/2005 by GumboBC]

Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats
 

This is to Gumbo. I was enjoying playing this game with you, until you tried to insinuate I was a liar, even though you didn\'t directly say it. Then you tell people to disregard my stats like I would pull foolishness out my ass just to prove a point. That\'s you not me. SO at this point, on this subject, I really do not care what you find. I am certain it will be unfair and biased, quite the opposite of how I tried to make it. DO whatever you want, I will not reply without an apology. You were out of line, especially since I had posted the stats in the other thread. All you had to do was look there, but it shows how little attention you actually pay to people\'s posts when you are losing, and start to attack their character.

Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats
 

Top 5 Recievers

Randy Moss
Terrell Owens
Hines Ward
Marvin Harrison
Torry Holt

Would anyone put Reggie Wayne or Joe Horn in anyone\'s spot above?

Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats
 

Well ... I\'ll admit I was using your source of stats but just getting the number of passes thrown from another section of that site. And when I couldn\'t find \'em and I asked you for a source and you didn\'t readily provide one ... then it made me wonder.

My apologies for the misunderstanding.. :cool:

Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats
 

Cool and the gang. :nutkick:

But you still seem to be missing the point, so I will still just back out of this disagreement. I don\'t know how many other ways it can be explained, and there is no longer any point in arguing about it. So until the next disagreement, have a good one. :salute:

Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats
 

The orginal reason I started this thread is because you said Brooks has tunnel vision for Horn.

But, I proved that Brooks only threw to Horn 28.2% of the time.

Now, if you want to go to 2nd and 3rd receivers and compare Brooks to Peyton Manning all time great NFL season. Then that\'s not a fair comparison, IMHO.

If you would have done it for 4 or 5 other QBs then I would have no choice but to agree with you. But, Peyton Mannings record setting season is what you want to compare Brooks to? Come on man?

Also, Brooks threw the ball to someone other than Horn 78.2% of the time. Obviously, Brooks isn\'t locking on to Horn anymore than Petyon is Marvin Harrison(20.0%)

Did Brooks throw to his number 2 and 3 receivers as much as Manning did? NO!

But, I still say comparing Brooks\' ball distribution to ONLY Manning is a very skewed comparison. Surly you can see that.

I think I\'ll do a better comparison so we can get a better idea than Peyton Mannings ALL TIME record season.

Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats
 

So let\'s use Bulger. Not a rookie, no rookie wr, no injuries or suspensions to receivers. And even though the Rams don\'t have a clear cut number 3 receiver, I will use McDonald cause I remember him playing the most.

Bulger passes to:

Bruce 30.5% of the time
Holt 28% of the time
Mcdonald 14% of the time

One and two are MUCH closer than with AB, and even their 3rd, which is by committee, has a higher number than Pathon.

Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats
 

I was gonna use Denver but their 3rd wide receiver Watts is a rookie. But let\'s look at it anyway without him.

Plummer passes to:

Lelie 19.9% of the time
Smith 26.1% of the time

Smith and Lelie are closer together than horn and Stallworth.

Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats
 

saintwhodi --

If only 28.2% of Brooks\' passes are thrown to Joe Horn ... Where are the rest of the passes going if not to the number 2 and 3 receiver?

It seems to me that Brooks is \"spreading\" the ball around to more players on the offense than Peyton Manning or Mark Bulger.

Also, let\'s not forget that Brooks didn\'t have a lot of time to pass the ball behind our offensive line.

How \'bout some \"fairness\'\" in this debate? That\'s what gets me about the anti-Brooks guys.

Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats
 

Let\'s look at Tennessee. Their third wideout Calico was hur tin the pre-season so I will take their one and two, Mason and Bennett.

McNair and Volek threw to:

Bennett 25.2 % of the time
Mason 27.6% of the time

Much MUCH closer than AB\'s one and two receivers. I hope this is enough outside of Peyton and his record season.

Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats
 

Okay, I tried. I give up. You don\'t win, but I give up. The facts are in front of you, and you wanna start talking about throws to FBs and TEs and all this other nonsense. The Rams line sucked as much as ours. Did you see Tennessee\' record? But whatever. I give up. Against my better judgment I tried to inject some more logic to assist the debate, but all you are willing to do is say \"Yes that\'s nice but AB prob throws to his Rbs, FBs and TEs more.\" :icon_bs:

Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats
 

Aha, I see where this is going. The site doesn\'t show targets at TEs and RBs so you decided you would pull that out so it can\'t be disproven. Wow. I know cause Iw as gonna check on Dallas Clark and Kinney verses Boo and Conwell. Wow dude, when you con, you go all out. Nice try, but I am sure the facts posted will allow people to draw their own views.

Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats
 

I think when the FACTS show Brooks only throws to Joe Horn 28.23% of the time that any moron can figure out that 71.8% of ABs passes must be going to someone other than Joe Horn. And Brooks threw the ball to Donte\' over 100-times.

If the ball isn\'t going to the 3rd receiver or whoever, it\'s gotta be going to SOMONE. Who do you suppose that is?

Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats
 

I think the point that is being missed is that WR are USUALLY the primary recievers for any given passing play. You(and by you I mean the average NFL team)will have plays where the RB or TE is the primary reciever, but those are few and far between, unless your team is built behind your RB(i.e. Chargers and Tomlinson) or TE(i.e. KC and Gonzalez).

Context is a mo-fo!!

Proof that Brooks didn't inflate Horn's stats
 

Bignic..do you see now what i was trying to say..

Stats are used here for every topic pretty much...even Financial discussions like the State and the team debacle...

Or the thousand of future Brooks threads to come...packed with stats..I guarantee it

Oh..just wait till about week 3...

It gets hot real quick in here...

Oh..better yet..be here in chat during the Draft...oh man...