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GumboBC 03-29-2005 11:03 AM

If anyone knows me very well, then they know I'm not much into aplogies. But this time I feel very bad for the trouble I caused by suggesting we have a team debate.

I don't feel sorry for coming up with the idea. I feel sorry that JoeSam caught so much heat for it. And I also feel sorry that Halo always catches the ramifications for every problem.

Look, let me tell some of you guys something ...

If ANY of you think JoeSam is playing favorites ... then you are dead WRONG.

I'm the foremost expert here at B&G on JoeSam's editing practices. And I can almost guarantee you that I have received more PMs from JoeSam than anyone else. And JoeSam's PMs weren't to discuss the weather, either.

Quite frankly ... JoeSam has told me on more than one occassion to get my act together or take my BS somewhere else.

But, here's the deal. JoeSam was always right. And I was always wrong. I just couldn't see it clearly at the time because I was so involved in trying to prove my point to whomever I was debating with.

It seems that a few of you have been "edited" by JoeSam and you feel like you've been treated unfairly? I'm sorry some of you feel that way. Over the years I've felt exactly the same way. But, it still doesn't change the fact that I posted some stuff that was CLEARLY against the rules. And what's the moderator's job? To ENFORCE the rules.

Without rules ... what would we have here at B&G? We would have a site that's not worth posting on.

I feel very strongly that B&G is the best site there is. Halo and JoeSam allow a lot of freedom here. I don't think we should abuse that freedom. In the past, I have done exactly that.

I've tried to clean my act up. I'm still not perfect and I still receive a PM from JoeSam and Halo from time to time. I understand that it's nothing personal. I really don't think they give a **** if I post my opinions all day long. They just don't want me to belittle anyone!!!

It really pisses me off that JoeSam has been called to the floor because of his editing. Anyone that's been here very long has the utmost respect for JoeSam. And some of us (myself) knows that without JoeSam that we'd been kicked off of here long ago.

JoeSam has a tough job. It's an unpopular job. I hope JoeSam doesn't change his ways. If anything, I hope Joe will continue to strive to make this a better place. Which is all he's ever done.

I don't know what it is about me and why my posts cause so much trouble. This time it has gone to a whole other level and it's really caused some promblems. I'm going to have to think on this one.

I don't wish to cause guys to leave this board, but at the same time, if some of you are so sensetive, then it might be you that has the problem.

In any event, I hope no one leaves because I believe all of you bring a lot to the board.

saintsfan1313 03-29-2005 11:11 AM

It takes a big man Gumbo, a big man...........

FrenzyFan 03-29-2005 11:33 AM

I\'m not certain what\'s happened recently. I don\'t post here nearly as often as the regulars do. I read the boards far more often than I post, but even with that time added in - I consider myself a part-time member.

I have noticed lately that there has been a \"relaxation\" in the rules regarding what I deem to be personal attacks. What I mean is people calling other people\'s opinions \"stupid\" or \"ignorant\"; accusing them of not knowing anything about football... stuff like that. These attacks have not come from Gumbo, but rather from other people who appear to feel passionately about their opinions but are seemingly not very good at dealing with people who disagree with those opinions.

If JoeSam (whom I admire greatly for his persistent pursuit of civilized discourse) has begun policing those individual\'s postings; kudos to JoeSam. I confess I\'ve read the board less lately because of what I perceived to be a change in the atmosphere on this board. I certainly hope that if JoeSam made efforts to bring the board back to what it was, he is not suffering ANY repercussions for his actions.

Just my opinion.

LKelley67 03-29-2005 11:49 AM

good word gumbo. i have wondered to myself sometimes if you post with the purpose of stirring up sh!t and pissing people off more than sincerely addressing the issues. i have wondered but never really come to that conclusion. some people have a knack for just striking others the wrong way, seeming arrrogant, or whatever with no thought or intention of being that way whatsoever. i think you, like almost all here, are simply a diehard commited and passionate fan. that is what this site is about, not the art of debate. some enjoy the banter or do it better than others. as stated by many over again there is no requirement for anyone to enter any thread which they deem bullsh!t in any form (someone arguing for the sake of arguing, misconstrued facts, etc.) i am however saddened that some are offended and leave whether it is justified or not, especially if they have been ongoing contributors for years. if there was a cyber-bar we could pull up to and share a drink i think most here would realize we all are a lot closer than we are further from each other in our viewpoints. hell, ya have some kinda gris-gris wierdness to be a saints fan forever.

i think there is real fan tension after this 32-32 run with no playoffs. if they could have snuck in the playoffs last year hopes would have been a little more realized. if the final 4 games would have left the record at 4-12 rather than 8-8 we could have been salivating about a number 2-4 pick and how the new coach was gonna rebuild. i pray this season goes closer to 12-4 or 4-12 either way than another schizo performance ending with more mediocrity.

so to you and all i say, don\'t sweat it. trudge on. take a breather now n then as ya need to. it is only a internet message board that has less than microscopic impact to the realities of what happens with the saints no matter how much we wish otherwise.

aaron brooks does suck too LOL!

Danno 03-29-2005 12:30 PM

I hope that brings gatorman back.

baronm 03-29-2005 01:04 PM


i have wondered to myself sometimes if you post with the purpose of stirring up sh!t and pissing people off more than sincerely addressing the issues.
me too...but honestly man I think like this: we are all saints fans regardless of why..and we all have our own outlook on things-wo I don\'t take anything really that personal and honestly don\'t mean for anything to be personal (even though we have had snips-and for that I\'m sorry as well) far as I know you are haslett or benson (or brooks ;) ) --the only thing that ever really bothers me is when people use their anomonity (sp?) to be an @$$ .... which I don\'t feel you\'ve ever done. the man said-we all gotta be a little touched to still be a saints fan..

JKool 03-29-2005 01:09 PM

First, I too would like to say that I hope no one leaves. I would also like to apologize for any role I may have had in upsetting anyone.

Second, as FF points out, there was a slight change in atmosphere around here, but my feeling is that it was around the time right before the start of FA. I believe it is largely because there wasn\'t too much to discuss that could be productive - aside from dwelling on the previous year, badmouthing Benson, AB, and the like. It is my personal opinion that things had really started back on track (at least until yesterday). Either way, I believe everything is getting back to usual around here, and, for that, I\'m glad.

ScottyRo 03-29-2005 01:25 PM

I, too, do not wish anyone to leave. I feel that this board is better with more participation rather than less. Thus, my opinion that a debate team be formed which excluded others from participation on that thread is not necessary or beneficial. I was not insulted or anything, but I do not believe that would be helpful to the board or particularly interesting since most of the best threads are spontaneous.

As for your apology, Billy, it\'s got to be one of the worst of all time apologies. 3 sentences of I FEEL bad or sorry out of 39 seems a bit slim on the emotion. Anyway, I don\'t think you should apologize anyway. What did you do wrong? You suggested something that some people were against. Big deal.

I hope Joe knows that I like him and enjoy his posts as much as anyone else\'s on this board. But at the same time, I\'m not going to sugar coat when he does something I think is wrong. Yesterday, Joe closed a thread because of excess \"whining\". I don\'t remember that being in the rules. The rules say we can talk about football. If you\'re sick of reading about AB, don\'t read the post. A few weeks/months back AB thrads were threatened to be locked because people felt like there were too many of them. That\'s a travesty and not in the forum rules anywhere.

The bottomline about people leaving cuz they\'re mad is good ridance. If Gator had a problem with Joe, then he should have went to Halo. If he had a problem with being personally attacked, he should have went to Halo. Instead, he got indignant and felt the need to tell us he\'s leaving and not coming back. Boo hoo. Sometimes I wonder whether this is a football site or a soap opera.

[Edited on 29/3/2005 by ScottyRo]

GumboBC 03-29-2005 01:41 PM

ScottyRo --

My apology was very sincere. I apologized not for starting the thread, but rather the problems that it caused. I really didn\'t feel sorry for those who got offended, but for those who had to deal with those problems. (JoeSam and Halo)

Furthermore, ScottyRo, while I respect your opinion ... I do not agree with it.

Rules do not HAVE to be broken for a moderator to \"lock\" a thread. Sometimes the moderators can see it\'s heading for trouble and \"lock\" the thread before it happens. Which, IMHO, is very WISE. And Ray Charles could see that thread was headed in bad places. I commend JoeSam for locking the thread and Halo for moving it. And, hell, it was MY thread. If I didn\'t get offennded then I don\'t think anyone else should.

Bottom line: We can question the mods all day long. But, bashing the mods on the forum is one of the worst things a member can do.

And, yes ... I have done it in the past. It was wrong for me to have done it then and it\'s wrong for anyone to do it now. I should have been banned for doing it.

This board could be better. I\'m going to ask that the mods start with me. If I break any rules I ask the mods to edit my posts or handle it any way they see fit.

If I can\'t be mature enough to state my opinions without insulting anyone, then I need to be edited.

[Edited on 29/3/2005 by GumboBC]

ScottyRo 03-29-2005 01:54 PM

People saying that they feel insulted by a suggestion is a bad place? I\'ve seen direct insults get ignored by mods. Joe locked a thread because he was tired of it, not because it was breaking rules. To go a step further and say it\'s ok for him to lock a thread that is just \"heading\" in a bad direction is a bit too Orwellian for me. (For you younger lads, think Minority Report.)

For the record, I don\'t consider myself bashing a moderator by making these statements. I\'m just pointing out what i see as an error in judgment.

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