Saints center Max Unger plans to be back as the starter for the season opener
 

Re: Saints center Max Unger plans to be back as the starter for the season opener
 

Re: Saints center Max Unger plans to be back as the starter for the season opener
 

Hope he doesn't rush it.

Re: Saints center Max Unger plans to be back as the starter for the season opener
 

Re: Saints center Max Unger plans to be back as the starter for the season opener
 

Re: Saints center Max Unger plans to be back as the starter for the season opener
 

If it truly was the Lisfranc (still haven't seen anything concrete saying it was) I know the first first approach is always attempting to let it heal on its own. They probably had the window worked out to where if surgery was required it could still be done in time to return by the season's start.

Re: Saints center Max Unger plans to be back as the starter for the season opener
 

There were no windows, you fix it right away. you don't play games.

Re: Saints center Max Unger plans to be back as the starter for the season opener
 

Actually Asylum, Coach Payton and Unger have confirmed again recently to the media that it was a Lisfranc fracture; and I'd agree with the approach of rest for most humans.

However, Unger is not a normal human being; he's a professional athlete who will push his body, even during the offseason, to the limit...

His frame alone also carries a great deal of weight that most normal humans do not jave; for that reason alone, I'd reinforced the foot promptly so the everyday stress on that limb and it's joints would mend quickly, correctly...

Not just so he could continue his off-season regimen and playing, but so a lingering wound doesn't cause secondary issues in the ankle, knee, hip while compensating for the Lisfranc...

This is another questionable, wrong call by the Ochsner Sports Opinions that the Saints are currently aligned...

Re: Saints center Max Unger plans to be back as the starter for the season opener
 

There is a thing called "best practices" in medicine. Surgery is never the first option if any other option is available. Doing it any other way would be, in your own words, "playing games". I know quite a bit about this. I hear about it every day. My wife is a long time malpractice claims adjuster representing half the hospitals and doctors in the state of Louisiana. Performing surgery without first eliminating other less invasive options would open up a can of malpractice worms. That is a fact.

Re: Saints center Max Unger plans to be back as the starter for the season opener
 

The best practice is to fix it

Re: Saints center Max Unger plans to be back as the starter for the season opener
 

No that is because most claims adjusters try and limit their cost so they always go with the conservative approach. Anyone who has been hurt on the job knows how those people work. The saints and Max do not have that issue.

Re: Saints center Max Unger plans to be back as the starter for the season opener
 

Note my previous post, JP. There really was no other choice than to hope it would heal on its own. That is "best practice" and is basically mandated due to risk of any surgery.

Re: Saints center Max Unger plans to be back as the starter for the season opener
 

No. Claims adjusters have nothing to do with it. It is the legal system. Doctors have to always attempt the less invasive option first or they are liable. The Saints, as a liable party, have to also abide by those practices.

Claim adjusters are only ever involved AFTER something has been done medically. They are NEVER involved with any ongoing case. You have no clue what you are talking about.

Re: Saints center Max Unger plans to be back as the starter for the season opener
 

The best practice is to let the body fix it itself, if possible. If that isn't possible then Surgery may become the next best option.

Re: Saints center Max Unger plans to be back as the starter for the season opener
 

They're not liable if they explain your full options to you and risk, and then you sign with full knowledge. It has EVERYTHING to do with claims adjusters and saving money

Re: Saints center Max Unger plans to be back as the starter for the season opener
 

I worked for a medical claims company for 17.5 years. I know all about medical claims. That is different than malpractice claims. Completely different animals. Medical insurance and its claims are all about holding down costs and protecting the patient and/or employer. Malpractice insurance and its claims are all about protecting the hospital/doctor from lawsuits.

Surgery also opens up risk to things such as infection and nerve damage. No reputable surgeon would encourage surgery until all other options had been addressed. That is not how things work in the medical arena.

But, in Unger's case it was properly managed and surgery was done within a time frame that would return him to the field in time for the regular season.

Re: Saints center Max Unger plans to be back as the starter for the season opener
 

I sold medical equipment to Ochsner. It was a nasty place with a bad reputation.

Re: Saints center Max Unger plans to be back as the starter for the season opener
 

Won't play a game for the Saints this year and probably will have to retire. Foot surgeries on extremely large athletes does not usually work out well.

Re: Saints center Max Unger plans to be back as the starter for the season opener
 

Is that a fact? Have you got a crystal ball? And what evidence do you have to back up your claim of lack of success of Lisfranc surgeries on extremely large athletes? Medical journal study perhaps?

Re: Saints center Max Unger plans to be back as the starter for the season opener
 

No, I understand your point, it's just with Unger's sheer size alone, the stress of being on the foot, just bearing that excess weight should've been factored...

Then there's the whole professional athlete training component (it's not like he's in sales, can sit at his desk and get the weight off his foot; and ride the cart for a few months when playing golf)...

I'd thought they'd been a little more assertive in getting ahead of his Lisfranc injury and stabilizing his arch was the point I was making...

Re: Saints center Max Unger plans to be back as the starter for the season opener
 

One thing to note is that unlike players that need far more lateral motion the center can wear shoes with orthopedic additions that give far more support. My guess is that he was already wearing these last season. He was playing with the injury before, and at a quality level. I would hope that it would be far more comfortable to play on the repaired foot.

Re: Saints center Max Unger plans to be back as the starter for the season opener
 

You keep believing those silly things.

Re: Saints center Max Unger plans to be back as the starter for the season opener
 

That's why he had surgery lol, because it healed on its own. They aren't called the Saints for nothing, Jesus Christ himself was called in on this one.

I agree JP

Re: Saints center Max Unger plans to be back as the starter for the season opener
 

I deal in facts, son. Not bull****. I know about what I talk about.

Re: Saints center Max Unger plans to be back as the starter for the season opener
 

I'll pray for you. You need it.

Re: Saints center Max Unger plans to be back as the starter for the season opener
 

Well, in what seems like another lifetime, I worked at Tulane for four (4) years on a floor that included orthopedics, plastics to pay my way through school...

Then worked for five years in Managed Healthcare (HMO, PPO, TPA) writing dBase tables for everything from benefits, membership, claims adjudication, sales/commissions, and member service documentation and management, etc...

There are days I wished I didn't know all I knew from those nine years, especially when I'm with family or close friends at the Phys office, Urgernt Care, CCU, SICU, etc or realizing a claims processing choice that screws the patient and I recognize the same song or rodeo or dog & pony show bullshinski I learned of then...

Guido is exactly right that most doctors and the business directors of those PHOs (Physican Hospital Organizations) heavily influence the decision making to lean to the idea of do no more harm than good, limiting liability, exposure...

It's easier from a legal defensive point to say we did nothing and only be limited to damages for doing nothing than to risk invasive procedures by doing thus and still no improvement and being second guessed later why a number of other options were not used...

However, in the case of Max Unger, firmly believe in my gut the Ochsner Docs were covering their collective arses rather than processing all factors including my earlier point...

...around that rather simple human arch system he has is a super human amount of flesh and muscle and that that his bearing weight of 300+ lbs alone was more than his arch could bear in its injured state...

I worked with some Docs 25+ years ago who's names have sometimes been in the news these past years with regards to high profile athletes and injuries and I know they'd advised the stabilization of the Lisfranc injury as soon as trauma and inflammation had reduced for Sx...

Re: Saints center Max Unger plans to be back as the starter for the season opener
 

I have never known a doctor to er on the side of less money. Unless you're dealing with a back or neck..they'll open you right up. Well until you're dealing with workplace doctors (and insurance)...then they tell you to go conservative. Conservative on the funds they mean. JUST MY HOP

Re: Saints center Max Unger plans to be back as the starter for the season opener
 

You're right about Unger..that's why he had the surgery.

Re: Saints center Max Unger plans to be back as the starter for the season opener
 

In a round about way you are agreeing with my assessment that the decision to wait was not made by the Saints front office as claimed, but by the medical community.

Re: Saints center Max Unger plans to be back as the starter for the season opener
 

Yes. He had the surgery AFTER it was determined that it wouldn't stabilize on its own. Normal best practice with most Lisfranc injuries.

Re: Saints center Max Unger plans to be back as the starter for the season opener
 

yes, so there was a whole bunch of wasted time. That's wht JP said, he is right

Re: Saints center Max Unger plans to be back as the starter for the season opener
 

No. There was a whole bit of time that had to be spent to determine that surgery was necessary. It wasn't wasted. It was mandated.

Re: Saints center Max Unger plans to be back as the starter for the season opener
 

according to jp there was, and i agree

Re: Saints center Max Unger plans to be back as the starter for the season opener
 

Well, the obviously Unger, the Saints and the medical community didn't agree with your somewhat less than professional opinion. Try staying at a Holiday Inn Express the next time.

:lolup:

Re: Saints center Max Unger plans to be back as the starter for the season opener
 

Now that reality has set in and the key cog of the OL is up there in age and we have no player on the bench getting ready to step up.

2018 draft has to have an OC/OG in the needs list.

High on my watch list in R3/4
Frank Ragnow C/OG,Arkansas 6052 319 5.14 #72 Sr

Re: Saints center Max Unger plans to be back as the starter for the season opener
 

The guy filling in, how has he been doing? Heard he has been solid? Thoughts?

Re: Saints center Max Unger plans to be back as the starter for the season opener
 

The medical community did agree since he is having surgery. Had they sought my opinion initially a whole bunch of time could have been saved! :)