Keeping Darren Howard
 

OK, I understand we could improve at another position, and we could free up some cash for long term deals for some other guys (Deuce, Horn, Grant, Bentley, AB (ok, just seeing if you're paying attention), BUT
aren't most of those guys still under contract for 2005? And some for 2006?

I think we could live with the cap hit for 2005 and still sign these guys to new deals next year couldn't we?

And why give up an A-player at DE (one of the most coveted positions on defense) for anything less than another A-player?

I don't see the downside of keeping a solid DE, even if he is somewhat overpriced. What if Smith goes down in game 2?
Whitehead? Bryant? Anyone even close to the talent of Howard to step in? Why the urgency to deal him off?

Keeping Darren Howard
 

What if we keep howard and he gets hurt, his stock goes down. need to deal him while we can get sumptin decent 4 him.

Keeping Darren Howard
 

the problem is that they want a first rounder....but honestly I don\'t see them getting that...though I do think he is worth a first rounder.

Keeping Darren Howard
 

I still don\'t think that makes the case for urgency.

If his stock drops, won\'t his salary demands also drop?

Keeping Darren Howard
 

heres my thing..youwant to put your best guys on the feild..so you have three DE\'s..how do you play them all? and why would you want to sacrifice at another position for that luxery?

could will smith swing to SLB? would that be a possibility?

Keeping Darren Howard
 

Our D-line coach loves rotating his linemen in and out. Keeps them fresher thru the game and thru the year.
Howard, Smith, and Grant would all see about 1/3 of the snaps.

Probably more than that though because on obviuos passing downs we rush 3 DE\'s and a DT. If we traded Howard we still rotate DE\'s in and out, it would just be a combo of Grant, Smith, Bryant (or Whitehead).

I don\'t like moving Smith to LB. He\'s a DE, and apparently going to be a very good one. Why try to make him a LB? I know ours are really bad but why don\'t we just get a better SLB instead of putting a square peg in a round hole?

Keeping Darren Howard
 

that\'s my point-we have the DE\'s..we NEED a LB...which is why we really should trade howard...extra help in getting linebacker help...maybe even a soldi DT.

I understand about keepiing the guys fresh though and that is a solid point.

Keeping Darren Howard
 

if we keep him we will live. i would just like to get a good player for him or a high draft choice. then we can get rid of the cap hit and get something in return. but if we have to keep him for another year it doesnt hurt. we can find out about smith for sure. im pretty sold on the guy without a doubt. but hey wouldnt hurt to have howard for one more year. i really think we are in a win win situation. would prefer to trade him but if we have to keep him we are still doing ok. what a problem to have. to many good de\'s

Keeping Darren Howard
 

If we can fill a void with a legitimate starter at LB, then I\'m in favor of a trade. Anything else, including a first rounder, would not be as desirable, and, IMHO, there would be more upside to keeping him and doing the rotation thing. First round picks are not always lead-pipe cinches, and I know I don\'t have to remind anyone of that. I would rather spend the money on a known commodity.

Keeping Darren Howard
 

it wouldnt kill us at all saint lb

Keeping Darren Howard
 

Danno - I agree completely. I said this three weeks ago in the midst of the Trade Howard rampage and got chewed out. I said the same thing about Horn when the trade suggestion came up about him. Is it so terrible an idea to have to have three great DEs next season? Oh yeah, poor Saints.

Keeping Darren Howard
 

Don\'t get me wrong, as I really like Darren Howard (and I\'ll elaborate on why), but I believe he has to be dealt.

I like him because I believe he is underrated vs. the run. He has a decent motor, and seems to be a quality person. His pass rush skills are well honed and he has proven he can put up the numbers. He has exhibited some tendency to get hurt, and we have two capable and productive starting ends to fill the roles. Whitehead is a solid back-up, as is Bryant if he returns. There are many second rate DE\'s available to sign as back-ups id depth is a concern, but having 3 starting DE\'s to fill 2 roles is something any team would want to have....but it\'s a pure luxury. If we can turn Darren into a starting MLB or CB and pick up a late first day pick in the process then we are ahead in my opinion.

I literally drooled when I heard we may have struck a deal to get Nguyen off of Dallas as well as getting a 2nd round pick. We could have fixed the MLB problem, and you can snap a guy like Surtain off of Miami for a 3rd rounder in all likelihood. That would have allowed us much greater flexibility with that 1st round pick. Howard\'s salary is simply too much to bear for sheer luxury at any position. I fully believe that the Saints did not enter last years draft targeting Will Smith, but that the mentality was such that they could plan for the departure of Howard since Smith fell to them.

Keep him or move him, either way I\'m pleased. If Howard wasn\'t the person and player he was I\'d have no qualms about seeing him leave.

Keeping Darren Howard
 

The only thing we could have done wrong is let Howard walk without getting any compensation for him. So far, the FO hasn\'t screwed this up, but it\'s not over yet....

I agree with the thought that we can\'t go wrong keeping him or trading him for the right package. The last thing we need to do is get bullied into trading him for less than what he\'s worth.

Keeping Darren Howard
 

His cap hit is huge. We\'d have to do some shuffling just to sign our rookies if we keep him (at least when last I heard our cap numbers).

I\'m with Lumm0x on this one. We need serious help at LB, before we need a third stud DE. We have very serviceable backups in Whitehead and Bryant. Howard is a luxury. We can have a guy who is always on the field if we get an LB, or we can get a guy who will take at most 2/3 of our defensive snaps.

Also, with McAllister coming due next season, if we don\'t resign him now, we\'ll either have to franchise him or take a market price - if we are in position to renegotiate now, we can get a longer contract on McAllister at a more cap friendly price. Also, I believe, that Grant and Bentley (not to mention Horn) are all due for a new contracts.

The sad fact is that we\'d simply have to chose who to franchise between McAllister and Howard next year (and possibly Bentely or Grant (unless I\'m mistaken about that) and let the other guy(s) be UFAs - with NO compensation.

I just don\'t think that keeping Howard is really an option, unless we\'re going to sign him to a long-term cap-friendly deal, which he doesn\'t seem to be going for ($16 mil signing bonus and Wistrom like money!).

Don\'t get me wrong, I believe that Howard is a stand up Saint. I\'ll be sorry to see him go, but, unlike Horn, I don\'t see him helping us out with a favorable contract AND we\'d really risk not getting any compensation for him or McAllister (and possibly others) if we don\'t deal him now.

Keeping Darren Howard
 

Didn\'t read the whole thread so if I say something that has already been said - ignore it.

Reason why he needs to go now is to free up the cap space to resign the players you mentioned. Why now and not after the season? Would you really want to see Deuce, Horn & Howard all on the FA market next year? Do you really believe we would beable to sign Deuce & Horn and then franchise Howard again? And if we did do that, imagine how big the cap hit would be for Howard. And if we don\'t franchise him next year, he walks and we get NOTHING. So yeah, I\'d say we need to move him now.

Keeping Darren Howard
 

Considering that there are two DEs on the field on most plays, it would be more like 2/3. ;)
I agree with rAge that you have to look beyond next season. If you can get a good player and sign him to a long-term contract plus maybe a draft pick, the deal would be a good one in the long run.
But even in the long run, giving up Howard for a mere 2nd rounder doesn\'t make sense to me. There has to be some value in a deal, otherwise it would be better to keep him and see what happens next year.

Keeping Darren Howard
 

As my father was so fond of saying \"What we have here is a high class problem\" We can\'t lose -- if we keep him we have a quality player -- if we trade him and get good value we help our cap situation and fill other needs. Personally I think we need help in other areas more thant a 3rd DE but its not in our best interests to give him away either -- Bottom line -- either way we win --- something the Saints usually have trouble doing

Keeping Darren Howard
 

As I said above, if we keep him (and don\'t manage to sign him for a more cap friendly long term contract BEFORE this year starts, which seems unlikely), then it appears to me HIGHLY LIKELY that either one of Duece or Howard (and maybe Bentely or Grant) will go WITHOUT compensation.

It is simply impossible, given my most recent memory of our cap space) to be able to pay Howard his tender value and still sign McAllister to a long term deal. They will both be UFAs next year, which means we will not get compensation for at least one of them. It is also possible, though I don\'t remember acurately) that Bentely and Grant will also be UFAs next year. If that is so, keeping Howard this year will cause us to not get compensation for at least one of those four guys next year.

Unless someone can demonstrate that there is enough cap room THIS year to re-sign McAllister (and possibly Grant and Bentley, as well as our rookies), keeping Howard will merely result in our not getting compensation for him NEXT year AND possibly the loss of one of those other three. It would NOT in that case be win-win at all.

Keeping Darren Howard
 

I dont think we will have a problem with signing deuce, he wants to be here (close to home) so he will help all he can. Did\'nt he say in a interview at the end of the season that \"Him being in NO will not be an issue\"

Keeping Darren Howard
 

While you can never have enough good DEs ... there are too many needs on defense to NOT trade Howard if the chance presents itself.

If Charles Grant or Will Smith goes down we will simply have to deal with it. Same goes for many positions on this team. It\'s irrelevent if you ask me.

We need linebackers first and foremost and Howard seems to be the best hope of acquiring one.

Keeping Darren Howard
 

While I agree that you can never have enough good x\'s (where x is any standard starting position on the offense or defense) it is clear to me that in the salary cap era, you can have too many great x\'s. Great x\'s cost a lot of money, and they may keep you from having other great y\'s or even good z\'s.

Keeping Darren Howard
 

I agree with Kool\'s opinion that we need help at LB and that Howard creates a big cap number. But I just haven\'t seen anyone willing to step up and trade a solid LB for him. Draft picks you say? I don\'t have much faith in the Saints to use them well. If we keep him, at least I know we\'ve got a player who is of high caliber and will perform. If he goes for draft picks - with this team - I start twitching. I fear that the Saints will get the short end of the stick in a Howard deal, but will proclaim it a victory (as will people on this board), just b/c they freed up cap space. To me, getting crap in return for a good player, but freeing up cap space isn\'t exactly ideal.

Keeping Darren Howard
 

Exactly.
Which is why I\'d rather keep him instead of getting crap.

If we can deal him for a comparable player, then YES!
If not, let Loomis the bean counter tweak some contracts to get us under the cap. Thats what he excells at. Other GM\'s do it. Our GM has that reputation to get \'er done.

We could always release someone else making big bucks. ;)

Keeping Darren Howard
 

We can\'t sign our draft picks if we keep Howard.

Keeping Darren Howard
 

especially if it is derrick johnson