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Single most important factor for the offense

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Lord, Lord .... I hear the same ol\' things over and over. Like Brooks \"locks\" on to Joe Horn. Or Brooks turns the ball over more than other QBs. I prove you guys wrong time after time and you still ...

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Old 04-04-2005, 02:08 PM   #31
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Single most important factor for the offense

Lord, Lord ....

I hear the same ol\' things over and over.

Like Brooks \"locks\" on to Joe Horn. Or Brooks turns the ball over more than other QBs. I prove you guys wrong time after time and you still post that stuff on here.

But that\'s fine. If you don\'t want the truth and just want to talk \"smack\" then that\'s your business.

I\'m just not going to waste much time with it.


I don\'t think there\'s one person on here that thinks our offensive line doesn\'t need to improve GREATLY.

Like I said: \"Watch the ball -if you dare- but if the offensive line doesn\'t improve ... this whole thing just got a lot harder.

Not harder for Joe Horn or Decue McAllister necessarily. But getting the ball to the 2nd and 3rd receivers is gonna be a B*ITCH.

Not to mention the busted plays or the bad plays a terrible offensive line causes.
gumbo-the whole world knows we have a QB that is only a legend in his own mind. It\'s not \"smack\" it\'s true...we either need him to get his attitude in check or leave. unfortunatly, right now there isn\'t a better one on the market...so we need him to grow up and start playing TEAM football.

true..the line needs work..most here will admit that.
true..we didn\'t ahve a great running game last year...most will admit that
true..our defense needs work...everyone has admitted that.

but Gumbo-our QB is a better athlete than he is a football player, has not been held accountable by the coaching staff-so he passes the blame to everyone but himself..and I for one am sick of this.

either he starts to take command of the position or he needs to go..and we as fans need to stop apologizing for him.

If our offensive line doesn\'t play better it won\'t matter so much what the \"skill\" players do
I do m, however agree with this...we need to get some OT\'s in this draft...the question is who and where?

I\"m thinking adam terry and wesly britt later on in the draft..we could start to groom them.

I\'m not sure stithcomb isn\'t more of a guard.

we need our O-line to be dominat to give the rest of the offense a chance..and that includes not racking up penalties again this season..that drove me more nuts than anything else.

[Edited on 4/4/2005 by baronm]
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Old 04-04-2005, 02:50 PM   #32
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Single most important factor for the offense

Not harder for Joe Horn or Decue McAllister necessarily. But getting the ball to the 2nd and 3rd receivers is gonna be a B*ITCH.
I\'m not sure Brooks knows that he has options other than Horn. And even if he knew he had them, I certainly haven\'t seen him recognize coverages and find them in the past... unless someone flashes right across his face or is standing all alone behind the defense waving his hands and shouting, \"Gumby! Fumbalia! I\'m open throw it here... and put some air under it you can\'t get it 40 yards on a straight line, nimrod!\"
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Old 04-04-2005, 02:56 PM   #33
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Single most important factor for the offense

WhoDat --

With all due respect, and I mean that ...

Before I listen to someone about \"reading\" defenses, then I have to question your ability to read a defense.

What\'s your background in \"reading\" defenses?

It\'s easy to see a missed tackle a lot of times, but it\'s hard to \"read\" a defense by watching a game on TV.

I\'m not saying you are wrong, but I sure have to question your knowledge in this area.
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Old 04-04-2005, 02:59 PM   #34
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Single most important factor for the offense

Not harder for Joe Horn or Decue McAllister necessarily. But getting the ball to the 2nd and 3rd receivers is gonna be a B*ITCH.
I\'m not sure Brooks knows that he has options other than Horn. And even if he knew he had them, I certainly haven\'t seen him recognize coverages and find them in the past... unless someone flashes right across his face or is standing all alone behind the defense waving his hands and shouting, \"Gumby! Fumbalia! I\'m open throw it here... and put some air under it you can\'t get it 40 yards on a straight line, nimrod!\"
with respect to that-it\'s been said that peyton manning is just now getting comfortable with his offensive weapons other than the main ones.
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Old 04-04-2005, 03:10 PM   #35
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Single most important factor for the offense

Before I even entertain that question with an answer, let me lob one back over at you.

Do you believe that a person must have a certain talent or skill to know that another person does not? To I have to be a genius to know a genius? Is that a theory you\'re trying to forward here?
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Old 04-04-2005, 10:05 PM   #36
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Single most important factor for the offense

GumboBC

You still have problems with that Brooks reading defenses problem . It has been an issue with Brooks since college , Defensive players have called him on it and scouts have called him on it .

Here is one original report :

Aaron Brooks | QB | Virginia | ACC
Selected by Green Bay Packers in round 4, pick 36 (#131 overall)
Ht Wt 40 BP SS LS VJ BJ Grade
6\'3\" 203 4.57 - 4.33 - 35.5 10\' 5.45

Scott Halleran/Allsport

He is an athletic and mobile QB with good measurables and good intelligence. He has solid arm strength and can make all the throws necessary. He has really improved in the last two years, but he is a guy that doesn\'t appear to have great discipline in the pocket. In spite of his intelligence, he does not have great patience and seems to scramble a little more than he should when he doesn\'t read a defense. He is a little up and down in his production and doesn\'t always seem to be a real natural QB. The NFL teams that like him will take time to let him develop in his recognition of defenses as his measurables and intangibles are a positive.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/foo...ers/18199.html

I know you have trouble reading how Brooks has trouble reading defenses , so I made it bolder .Now if opposing defenses just made the linebacker bolder maybe Brooks would not have issues .

Deal with it , Brooks needs hooked on Defenseonics ...

\"Americans play to win at all times. I wouldn\'t give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed.\" - George S. Patton
On another note, I\'ll take a bite of that crow 08. - Saintfan
Brooks is a moron!! - Halo
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Old 04-05-2005, 12:06 AM   #37
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Single most important factor for the offense

Great early Mock , appeared early February .

Saints pick is well out of range , but still ....

SPORTING NEWS MOCK DRAFT: Round 1

Pick Team Player Pos. School Previous Rising/Falling High/Low

1. 49ers Braylon Edwards WR Michigan 4th (+3) 1st / 4th
New coach Mike Nolan and GM Scot McCloughan want to trade down but can\'t find a willing partner. They have many needs and will take the best player available. Edwards is big (6-3, 211) and fast (4.45 speed), has great hands and has the potential to become an All-Pro receiver. He is a sure thing, which can\'t be said of QBs Aaron Rodgers and Alex Smith.
2. Dolphins Ronnie Brown RB Auburn 2nd SAME 2nd / 25th
New coach Nick Saban is a defense-first coach and has final say on all personnel matters. But he needs a workhorse back to make his conservative, ball-control offense work. Brown is big (6-0, 230) with great speed (4.43), is tough to tackle and catches the ball well.
3. Browns Derrick Johnson OLB Texas 3rd SAME 3rd / 3rd
New coach Romeo Crennel and GM Phil Savage already are working in concert. Crennel is a defensive guy who favors the 3-4 scheme and knows the value of elite linebackers. In Baltimore, Savage drafted multiple Pro Bowl linebackers who became the core of dominant units. Johnson is a great athlete with natural instincts.
4. Bears Carnell Williams RB Auburn 5th (+1) 4th / 25th
The Bears will take the biggest playmaker on the board. If not for the signing of free agent Muhsin Muhammad, WR Mike Williams might\'ve gotten the nod here. There is a deep pool of WRs, so the Bears will get one later. Incumbent RB Thomas Jones is OK, but Williams is a workhorse with touchdown potential on every carry.
5. Buccaneers Mike Williams* WR USC 7th (+2) 5th / 21st
Coach Jon Gruden says he never can have enough weapons. Williams grew up in Tampa and will have marketing appeal. More important, he is big, physical and extremely talented. He and second-year man Michael Clayton could power Gruden\'s pass-happy attack for a decade.
6. Titans Alex Smith* QB Utah 16th (+10) 6th / 24th
Despite what Titans officials say, the team is in rebuilding mode. Smith has great upside and could sit behind Steve McNair for a couple years and learn without undo pressure. Smith is big, shows outstanding athleticism and is a proven leader.
7. Vikings
(from Raiders) Troy Williamson* WR South Carolina 14th (+7) 7th / 2nd round
The Vikings rebuilt the defense through free agency and trades and will look to try and replace some of Randy Moss\' production here. Williamson is lightning fast and immediately would become Daunte Culpepper\'s new deep threat.
8. Cardinals Cedric Benson RB Texas 8th SAME 2nd / 8th
The Cardinals have outstanding young receivers, upgraded their offensive line through free agency and put a Band-Aid on the QB position. Coach Dennis Green covets a power running back, and Benson has the size and will to run hard between the tackles and the great vision and speed to get outside. Benson would balance the offense and take pressure off the QB.
9. Redskins Adam Jones* CB West Virginia 11th (+2) 8th / 32nd
Washington traded away Champ Bailey last year, just lost Fred Smoot in free agency and now have a glaring need at cornerback. Jones (5-9 1/2, 187) lacks great size but is a big-time playmaker with a confident, winning attitude. He gambles at times, but his risky decisions usually pay off. Jones would have to become a better assignment corner in coordinator\'s Gregg Williams\' disciplined defense.
10. Lions Alex Barron T Florida State 10th SAME 5th / 14th
The Lions must upgrade at OT and would be thrilled if Barron — the No. 1-rated player in our Super 99 — slides this far. Barron is huge and has outstanding athleticism. Most important, he is a great pass blocker. Barron might struggle if asked to play right tackle because he is not an exceptional run blocker. If the Lions get Barron, expect LT Jeff Backus to move to the right side.
11. Cowboys Mark Clayton WR Oklahoma 22nd (+11) 11th / 22nd
With the first of two first-round picks, the Cowboys hope to get the missing piece in their attempt to re-create the triplet magic of the \'90s at QB, RB and WR. Last year, the team drafted RB Julius Jones. This off-season, strong-armed QB Drew Bledsoe was signed. Clayton would bring a desperately needed receiving threat downfield. Clayton is a playmaker who can score from anywhere.
12. Chargers
(from Giants) Erasmus Jones DE Wisconsin 9th (-3) 6th / 12th
San Diego must get a young receiver but won\'t be able to pass up James. James never stops hustling and thus is the anti-Marcellus Wiley. James (6-4, 266) is a little undersized to be a 3-4 end, but plays with great intensity and leverage.
13. Texans Antrel Rolle CB Miami (Fla.) 6th (-7) 6th / 13th
Facing the Colts and Jaguars twice a year in the pass-happy AFC South, Houston is forced to use nickel personnel about two-thirds of the time. Rolle has decent size and speed but shows great instincts and never misses an assignment.
14. Panthers Thomas Davis* S Georgia 18th (+4) 14th / 2nd round
The big, physical Davis would round out the Panthers\' elite defense. He is quick and has decent straight-line speed for a strong safety. Thomas is a big hitter who will be great in run support but might be a liability in pass coverage.
15. Chiefs Carlos Rogers CB Auburn 15th SAME 15th / 2nd round
The Chiefs have quantity at cornerback but must upgrade the quality. Rogers, whose stock is rising, has great speed and quickness. He is physical and fearless and would help against the run, too. He needs to improve his ball skills, however.
16. Saints Aaron Rodgers* QB California 1st (-15) 1st / 16th
Rodgers\' stock is dropping fast because of The Tedford Factor. All of coach Jeff Tedford\'s elite college QBs have been NFL busts. Aaron Brooks\' immaturity is wearing thin on Saints officials, who might jump at the chance to get a young guy to push him. Rodgers is a bit undersized but has a strong arm, outstanding fundamentals and can make all the throws.
17. Bengals Travis Johnson DT Florida State 17th SAME 11th / 17th
The Bengals had trouble stopping the run in \'04. The addition of free-agent DT Bryan Robinson will help, but it\'s just a stopgap measure. Johnson is a big, physical presence but is quick enough to play in a one-gap scheme.
18. Vikings David Pollack DE Georgia 21st (+3) 6th / 21st
As the Vikings continue to remake their defense, Pollack gives them the athletic, standup edge rusher they need to play the 3-4 that Ted Cottrell prefers. At 6-2 1/8, 265 with very short (30½-inch) arms, Pollack overcomes concerns about his size with great speed and quickness (3.90 short shuttle), outstanding instincts and nonstop hustle. Best suited as a pass rusher, Pollack also can stuff the run and play in open field.
19. Rams Jammal Brown OT Oklahoma 19th SAME 19th / 28th
The Rams are closer to locking up franchise LT Orlando Pace, but they need to replace Kyle Turley on the opposite side. At 6-5 7/8, 316, Brown has long, strong arms, and works best in pass protection. He has the tools for run blocking but needs to get stronger and bulkier to excel at it.
20. Cowboys
(from Bills) Shawne Merriman* DE Maryland 13th (-7) 13th / 23rd
Bill Parcells is a 3-4 defensive coach at heart and is looking to acquire the personnel to make the transition. Merriman is an outstanding athlete who played both linebacker and end in college and may be the key ingredient. At 6-4 3/8, 272, Merriman may be asked to lean up to increase his speed on the edge.
21. Jaguars Marcus Spears DE LSU 31st (+10) 21st / 2nd round
The Jaguars have two of the best young DTs in the game in John Henderson and Marcus Stroud, and they added end Reggie Hayward. Spears, at 6-4, 307, would play left end in the team\'s upfield attacking scheme. Spears has great athleticism and agility and might be the finishing touch on a dominant front four.
22. Ravens Matt Roth DE Iowa 24th (+2) 22nd / 2nd round
The Ravens are converting to a 4-3 and must restock their personnel. At 6-3¾, 278, Roth plays with nonstop hustle and sometimes gets a little out of control. He must improve his pass-rush discipline but shows tremendous potential. He also can play either end.
23. Seahawks Justin Miller* CB Clemson 29th (+6) 23rd / 2nd round
Seattle lost CB Ken Lucas in free agency and must address this need early. Miller, at 5-9¾, 201 with 4.42 speed, possesses great change-of-direction and ball skills, and is a tough, physical defender. He also was a productive kick returner in college.
24. Packers Shaun Cody DT USC 20th (-4) 19th / 29th
Cody is a versatile defender who can play anywhere on the line. He eventually will settle in as a tackle. Cody has the hustle and intensity to go along with good size (6-4, 293). He would fits Green Bay\'s attacking scheme with his ability to penetrate, get upfield and make plays on the ball.
25. Broncos Justin Tuck* DE Notre Dame 2nd round 25th / 2nd round
The Broncos are looking to trade Trevor Pryce, and have little talent or depth at end after losing Hayward. Tuck (6-5, 268) is a relentless pass rusher who should step right in and help Denver get pressure on the passer.
26. Jets Corey Webster CB LSU 23rd (-3) 15th / 30th
The Jets must upgrade their secondary, starting with speed and coverage skills at cornerback. Donnie Henderson likes to attack on defense, often leaving his corners one-on-one against a receiver. Webster has good size (6-0 1/8, 199) with long arms, plays physical at the line and is willing in run support. He uses his frame and ball skills to his advantage downfield, making up for his slight speed deficiency.
27. Falcons Darryl Blackstock* OLB Virginia 32nd (+5) 27th / 2nd round
Ed Donatell calls for an upfield attacking scheme. Paired with Pro Bowler Keith Brooking, Blackstock will be set free to use his speed and athleticism to pressure the quarterback and run to the ball, the two things he loves to do.
28. Chargers Demarcus Ware OLB Troy State 2nd round 28th / 2nd round
The Chargers are one of the leaders in the copycat NFL. Wade Phillips installed the 3-4 upon his arrival and the team has remade its personnel to fit. Now that there are as many as a dozen teams using 3-4s, Ware is the type of player who is in great demand. Ware, 6-4, 251 with 4.56 speed, played outside linebacker in college. He shows both the speed and burst to rush the passer off the edge and both the athleticism and instincts to play in open field.
29. Colts Fabian Washington* CB Nebraska N/A 29th / N/A
The Colts must upgrade their speed at cornerback. Washington had an Olympian Combine workout, posting a 4.29 forty, a 3.91 short shuttle and a 41½-inch vertical leap. A bit undersized at 5-10½, 188, he compensates with his athleticism and strong coverage skills.
30. Steelers Marlin Jackson CB Michigan 2nd round 12th / 2nd round
Jackson, a big, physical corner at 6-0 5/8, 198, possesses all the skills to be a starting corner but is a step away from elite speed at 4.52. He shows great quickness — he posted a 3.96 short shuttle that makes up for some of his speed deficit. He played both corner and safety in college and would be a factor in the Steelers\' nickel packages until he eventually takes over at corner for veteran Willie Williams.
31. Eagles Channing Crowder* ILB Florida 27th (-4) 18th / 2nd round
The Eagles need an upgrade at LB, the weakest position on a very strong defense. Jim Johnson likes to call blitzes from everywhere and needs athletic LBs for them to be effective. If not for some character concerns, we would have Crowder off the board sooner. He is very aggressive and plays with nonstop hustle. He can be undisciplined, but he is still young, having played only two years at Florida and leaving as a redshirt sophomore.
32. Patriots Barrett Ruud ILB Nebraska 2nd round 18th / 2nd round
The Patriots\' defense is driven by its aging linebackers. Tedy Bruschi may not return from a minor stroke and Ted Johnson and Willie McGinest are two of league\'s oldest linebackers. Ruud is the versatile player Bill Belichick looks for. Ruud isn\'t the most athletic defender, but he plays smart and has great character both on and off the field.

Immaturity - another fine trait that is hardly ever touched on ....

[Edited on 5/4/2005 by saintz08]

\"Americans play to win at all times. I wouldn\'t give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed.\" - George S. Patton
On another note, I\'ll take a bite of that crow 08. - Saintfan
Brooks is a moron!! - Halo
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Old 04-05-2005, 09:40 AM   #38
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Single most important factor for the offense

WhoDat --

You don\'t have to be an expert to know certain things. But, it just seemed like you were trying to pass something off as if you were some kind of expert at reading defenses.

Furthermore, there is no way you can acurately tell if Brooks or any QB can read defenses by watching the game on TV.

It can\'t be done.



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Old 04-05-2005, 09:53 AM   #39
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Single most important factor for the offense

I\'m not trying to pass myself off as an expert at reading NFL defenses by suggesting that AB cannot.

I have seen a number of Saints games with AB at the helm in the Dome - probably 15 or 20 in the last 4 or 5 years. Not a ton, but enough to have seen plays develop from above and watch Brooks miss players who are wide open.

How many games do you go to Billy? I posted last season after going to a game that I had forgotten and was impressed with just how bad AB actually is at reading a defense after seeing plays develop from above.

My own first-hand experience seeing things that he misses (mind you, with a better vantage point I concede), combined with numerous scouts and analysts repeating over the years that he isn\'t good at reading defenses (including watching Salsbury show tape of his f-ups on ESPN), oppossing players saying that they didn\'t believe AB could read well coming into games, and even the fact that Joe Horn and AB had a falling out b/c the WRs were talking trash about AB WHILE WATCHING GAME FILM, is enough to make me feel confident that AB cannot read defenses.

I\'ve seen it. I\'ve heard people who make their living judging football and football players confirm it. And I\'ve heard the players AB plays WITH and against confirm it. That\'s enough for me. I take that over, \"Well, I can\'t tell by watching it on TV, but nevermind what that plethora of other experts and laymen alike all say, I think the guy can read a defense. Besides, it\'s all the o-line\'s fault anyway!\"

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\"
he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"
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Old 04-05-2005, 09:53 AM   #40
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Single most important factor for the offense

no, but you can listen to the experts and when they all say the sky is blue--usually the sky is a shade of blue...

as for the saints pick-I don\' think anyone has the slightest idea how the second have of the board will fall..esp. with teams like the saints who have multiple needs-I asure you-it won\'t be rogers.
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